OKFL - PRE Season 2011

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After having a squiz at the 2012 O&KFL draw, I would think that Mr. Guilfoyle won't be receiving a Christmas card from out Greta way...

Moyhu, Milawa, Benalla All Blacks and Whorouly twice (all finished top four of the 2011 H&A season) and the fifth opponent is North Wangaratta who we all know are likely to push for a top 6 spot.

I understand the complexities of compiling such a draw, but Greta have copped an extremely tough run. Throw in the fact they have to travel to both Bonnie Doon AND Bright, and you could see why the Navy Blues might be a bit peeved. Probably an oversight by the O&K board :confused:

And while on the topic of the O&K GM, does anyone else think that it's a conflict of interest having the leader of the league playing for one of it's clubs...?...

Just some food for thought over the festive season. Merry Xmas to all.
 
TenGoalsNine said:
After having a squiz at the 2012 O&KFL draw, I would think that Mr. Guilfoyle won't be receiving a Christmas card from out Greta way...

Moyhu, Milawa, Benalla All Blacks and Whorouly twice (all finished top four of the 2011 H&A season) and the fifth opponent is North Wangaratta who we all know are likely to push for a top 6 spot.

I understand the complexities of compiling such a draw, but Greta have copped an extremely tough run. Throw in the fact they have to travel to both Bonnie Doon AND Bright, and you could see why the Navy Blues might be a bit peeved. Probably an oversight by the O&K board :confused:

And while on the topic of the O&K GM, does anyone else think that it's a conflict of interest having the leader of the league playing for one of it's clubs...?...

Just some food for thought over the festive season. Merry Xmas to all.
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Have heard he won't be playing in this league for that exact reason TGN
 
Biduvar_Koksarka said:
Have heard he won't be playing in this league for that exact reason TGN
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Fair enough. Thanks for clearing that up, BK :thumbsu:

However, if/when he decides to continue in the role as O&K GM then shouldn't he be focusing all his attention to THAT league, and not playing in another one?

Just find it very strange. I understand that he's passionate about football, but you can't have your cake and eat it too in a situation like this.
 
TenGoalsNine said:
Fair enough. Thanks for clearing that up, BK :thumbsu:

However, if/when he decides to continue in the role as O&K GM then shouldn't he be focusing all his attention to THAT league, and not playing in another one?

Just find it very strange. I understand that he's passionate about football, but you can't have your cake and eat it too in a situation like this.
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Make up your mind TGN! Do you want him not to play at all... or play at Greta?:p:D
 
TenGoalsNine said:
Fair enough. Thanks for clearing that up, BK :thumbsu:

However, if/when he decides to continue in the role as O&K GM then shouldn't he be focusing all his attention to THAT league, and not playing in another one?

Just find it very strange. I understand that he's passionate about football, but you can't have your cake and eat it too in a situation like this.
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I don't see an issue with that, it's only a couple of hours on a Tuesday and Thursday night, plus gameday on Saturday. He shouldn't be forced to give up his life because he has taken on the role.
 

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TenGoalsNine said:
After having a squiz at the 2012 O&KFL draw, I would think that Mr. Guilfoyle won't be receiving a Christmas card from out Greta way...

dont think anyone can complain about the draw, the fact is that its is allways going to be harder for some then others because it is not 2 full rounds. and clubs got request games thay games wanted to play, you also can't pick the draw on who may or maynot be at the top of the ladder bright was on top in 2010 and didn't even finish in the top 8 in2011. As for the travel to play both bright & boonie doon for clubs central to wang surely an hour travel is that far.
AS for Zac I think he has done a pritty good job he not on whoroulys board and carn't be accused of doing any think other then a profssional job
Didn't see any of the regular complainer on this site nominate for the board this year , but that right it is easy to criticize from this site than to put up your hand if you think you can do better
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I've spoken to Zac on a number of occasions and he really does not like playing in the O&K while in a senior position with the Hub and he doesn't get to just go and play footy as there have been people from both Whorouly & opposition side talk to him about league matters while he is warming up/half time/on the bench. I think he'll play in at Wang so he can be separate from any issues for the O&K and enjoy running around.

And in his defense, he cant influence a game with his senior position, so I see no issue in him playing O&K should he choose.

And as a Greta person, if the Maguire signing is right - very happy with that!
 
EltonBrown said:
I've spoken to Zac on a number of occasions and he really does not like playing in the O&K while in a senior position with the Hub and he doesn't get to just go and play footy as there have been people from both Whorouly & opposition side talk to him about league matters while he is warming up/half time/on the bench. I think he'll play in at Wang so he can be separate from any issues for the O&K and enjoy running around.

And in his defense, he cant influence a game with his senior position, so I see no issue in him playing O&K should he choose.

And as a Greta person, if the Maguire signing is right - very happy with that!
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Agreed about Knackers, EB. Would be a nice signing. Fingers crossed :thumbsu:

Re Zac: I'll put my hand up and say I don't even know the bloke. Was a friendly jibe about the tough draw Greta has been handed :(

EB, obviously by having him play in a match for Whorouly won't affect the outcome of a game. However it is quite possible that an event is seen as a conflict of interest. I wouldn't want to be in his shoes, or Whorouly's shoes, or the League's shoes if something like that should arise.
And I personally don't think a member of a board, or GM (or whatever), should be playing in another league. Just my opinion.

RatPack, of course you can't predict how the teams will finish in the upcoming season. If we could, we'd all be millionaires.
But you can gauge where sides should finish based on their results of previous seasons. Moyhu, Milawa, Benalla and Whorouly to name a few.

Just had a look at the draw in a bit more detail too and have seen that Greta, Whorouly and Milawa all have to travel to Bonnie Doon AND Bright during the season :mad:
Wasn't there a clause or agreement put in place when the former BDFL clubs were accepted into the O&K that teams would only travel to ONE of these venues during the season?
I understand the draw is tough and I get sick of people saying that. If it is too hard to organise, why not reduce the season to 13 matches and alternate on a home-and-away basis ala the Davis Cup?
You may even look at extending the finals to 5 or 6 weeks to really give teams a chance to prove themselves in August/September.

There may even be room for a pre-season cup...
 
Our draw looks cosiderably easier than what we had last year but having said that we took the approach that it's better to be playing the top sides more often so you can really gauge where you're at. At the end of the day you have to be able to beat them all to win a flag..

On Greta, "Guns" and "Knackers".....what a combo..:eek::eek::eek: UNBEATABLE at the stoppages..:D:D:D
 
slim18 said:
Our draw looks cosiderably easier than what we had last year but having said that we took the approach that it's better to be playing the top sides more often so you can really gauge where you're at. At the end of the day you have to be able to beat them all to win a flag..

On Greta, "Guns" and "Knackers".....what a combo..:eek::eek::eek: UNBEATABLE at the stoppages..:D:D:D
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Too true Slim.

You blokes have probably been that one game short in the last couple of seasons.

Maybe this year...
 
From my recollection there was supposed to be a clause? Santa I think! Moyhu i believe have played Bright and Boonie Doon both years away since their acceptance and are travelling to both again next year. How do you work that 1 out? On the Zac matter shouldn't make a difference running around in the magoos??
 
Jaxbac from VT posted this on a couple of threads tonight.....Pretty much sums it all up....thanks trotts.

This was in the Warnambool paper on Friday 2nd December
Clubs and communities pay a high price for sporting success
JOHN PATTISON
02 Dec, 2011 04:00 AM
Why is football bad for a community when it was once seen as being central to a community’s well-being?
Let’s think about the basic objective of a football club: it is to provide a social outlet for people who enjoy the game, people who wish to participate and probably, in most cases, to be successful.
Trouble is, success is now measured, particularly by those who play it, on where you finish on the ladder and for many clubs the cyclical nature of on-field failures drowns them eventually.
So how does a football club run?
Effectively, a lot of people spend hours and hours as volunteers to raise sufficient funds to ensure they can buy a team of players each year (no matter how poor the standard of the league).
This approach means a coach who is employed for a significant amount as well is pressured to create performances, so they look at ways to do so.
The game itself demands fitness and as a result the coaches crawl further and further into summer existence with pre-season training. Examples of minor leagues training in November and December are widespread.
Thus football becomes a 10 months of the year sport at every level.
Because of the transient nature of senior footballers and the culture of having to pay players that have become established, these players contribute very little long-term to any of the communities they become attached to via the club and, apart from attending football club functions and other club-based commitments, they very rarely become involved at a real community level with other sports, clubs, schools etc. In other words, they are takers.
Due to the demands on volunteers simply to keep on affording to buy these players, the turnover is extreme and magnified even more by the fact those people (the good community people) are often then lost from other areas of the community as well due to burn-out etc.
Now think about football and the culture of many clubs where it is actually about football and not the magnificent and hard-working netballers who, for no pay, essentially keep football afloat in many areas. We are putting 10 months of the year into community resources and people power into a team of senior footballers.
No one can begrudge the footballers as this is the system it has created.
But look at the enormous number of cricket and tennis players who no longer play the game between 18 and 35 years of age and ask why?
Simple maths would say no wife or girlfriend who has had their partner away from home for 10 months playing football will want them to then say “right, it is cricket season now and away we go”.
To the players not impacted like this, why would you want to involve yourself in a summer club that also has some commitments when you are totally burnt-out with the last 10 months, compounded by how many years you have played?
The sting in the tail is that eventually football will shoot itself in the foot with this approach, as many community volunteers are just that — they volunteer for football, cricket, school, fire brigades etc.
If we continue to jeopardise those other sports and commitments by placing an even bigger demand on the volunteers who run football, we eventually won’t have any left.
So the golden game that is propped up by Auskick figures and magnificent gate and TV ratings will fail to exist in communities that have so passionately allowed it to thrive all this time.
Then we have destroyed community sport for good, as smaller centres race to the larger centres for any fix of sport still available.
And later, as those young men arrive at 35-plus and have children wanting to play cricket and footy locally, it won’t exist because football has killed the golden goose.
Yet we have an opportunity to change this.
Football leagues (apart from the national and state leagues) that are often run by very well-meaning volunteers could restrict clubs from pre-season training until the end of January (people can keep fit themselves). The thousands of people who chat each week about how hard it is to find volunteers, how little the AFL really contributes to small clubs and nervously consider the divide they are creating in the general community by further alienating those who enjoy summer sport and contribute to the whole community wellbeing, could make a stand and say we are no longer going to pay players and they would be more likely to stay loyal to their respective clubs.
Cricket and tennis could then also put a hand out and pull down the wall by beginning in November to give players, partners and families a break from the grind of continuous weekend sport.
Although it is great to be involved, a break is always appreciated.
The alternative is an end to community sport and the growth of middle-management dreaming up ways to save both games that are not sustainable.
- John Pattison is a Warrnambool cricket and Auskick coach, teacher and parent.


Posted
 
slim18 said:
Jaxbac from VT posted this on a couple of threads tonight.....Pretty much sums it all up....thanks trotts.

This was in the Warnambool paper on Friday 2nd December
Clubs and communities pay a high price for sporting success
JOHN PATTISON
02 Dec, 2011 04:00 AM
Why is football bad for a community when it was once seen as being central to a community’s well-being?
Let’s think about the basic objective of a football club: it is to provide a social outlet for people who enjoy the game, people who wish to participate and probably, in most cases, to be successful.
Trouble is, success is now measured, particularly by those who play it, on where you finish on the ladder and for many clubs the cyclical nature of on-field failures drowns them eventually.
So how does a football club run?
Effectively, a lot of people spend hours and hours as volunteers to raise sufficient funds to ensure they can buy a team of players each year (no matter how poor the standard of the league).
This approach means a coach who is employed for a significant amount as well is pressured to create performances, so they look at ways to do so.
The game itself demands fitness and as a result the coaches crawl further and further into summer existence with pre-season training. Examples of minor leagues training in November and December are widespread.
Thus football becomes a 10 months of the year sport at every level.
Because of the transient nature of senior footballers and the culture of having to pay players that have become established, these players contribute very little long-term to any of the communities they become attached to via the club and, apart from attending football club functions and other club-based commitments, they very rarely become involved at a real community level with other sports, clubs, schools etc. In other words, they are takers.
Due to the demands on volunteers simply to keep on affording to buy these players, the turnover is extreme and magnified even more by the fact those people (the good community people) are often then lost from other areas of the community as well due to burn-out etc.
Now think about football and the culture of many clubs where it is actually about football and not the magnificent and hard-working netballers who, for no pay, essentially keep football afloat in many areas. We are putting 10 months of the year into community resources and people power into a team of senior footballers.
No one can begrudge the footballers as this is the system it has created.
But look at the enormous number of cricket and tennis players who no longer play the game between 18 and 35 years of age and ask why?
Simple maths would say no wife or girlfriend who has had their partner away from home for 10 months playing football will want them to then say “right, it is cricket season now and away we go”.
To the players not impacted like this, why would you want to involve yourself in a summer club that also has some commitments when you are totally burnt-out with the last 10 months, compounded by how many years you have played?
The sting in the tail is that eventually football will shoot itself in the foot with this approach, as many community volunteers are just that — they volunteer for football, cricket, school, fire brigades etc.
If we continue to jeopardise those other sports and commitments by placing an even bigger demand on the volunteers who run football, we eventually won’t have any left.
So the golden game that is propped up by Auskick figures and magnificent gate and TV ratings will fail to exist in communities that have so passionately allowed it to thrive all this time.
Then we have destroyed community sport for good, as smaller centres race to the larger centres for any fix of sport still available.
And later, as those young men arrive at 35-plus and have children wanting to play cricket and footy locally, it won’t exist because football has killed the golden goose.
Yet we have an opportunity to change this.
Football leagues (apart from the national and state leagues) that are often run by very well-meaning volunteers could restrict clubs from pre-season training until the end of January (people can keep fit themselves). The thousands of people who chat each week about how hard it is to find volunteers, how little the AFL really contributes to small clubs and nervously consider the divide they are creating in the general community by further alienating those who enjoy summer sport and contribute to the whole community wellbeing, could make a stand and say we are no longer going to pay players and they would be more likely to stay loyal to their respective clubs.
Cricket and tennis could then also put a hand out and pull down the wall by beginning in November to give players, partners and families a break from the grind of continuous weekend sport.
Although it is great to be involved, a break is always appreciated.
The alternative is an end to community sport and the growth of middle-we will fade management dreaming up ways to save both games that are not sustainable.
- John Pattison is a Warrnambool cricket and Auskick coach, teacher and parent.


Posted
Click to expand...
Gidday Slim, the article is definetely an interesting read. I agree with nearly all of it and as a club we too are partly responsible for the way in which footy has created this money earning monster. The problem is if we don't raise the money to become a successful side, we will also fade away into the footy abyss with the likes off Devenish and Thornton Eildon. Call it keeping up with the Jones's l suppose, but until the leagues and the VCFL put something in place to push the payments down and put every side on an even playing field then we have no choice but to continue with the way we are going, how long for only god knows. I, along with alot of other good people around our club do alot of fundraising to keep the club going and can tell you it is not only hard but very time consuming as well. Sometimes the money is well earnt and sometimes you think what the hell is going on but at the end of the day that is what separates the poor clubs from the good clubs and the good clubs from the great clubs.. Lets just hope we don't lose anymore clubs to the evils of spending what you can't afford by trying to keep up with those bloody Jones's..
 
slim18 said:
Jaxbac from VT posted this on a couple of threads tonight.....Pretty much sums it all up....thanks trotts.

This was in the Warnambool paper on Friday 2nd December
Clubs and communities pay a high price for sporting success
JOHN PATTISON
02 Dec, 2011 04:00 AM
Why is football bad for a community when it was once seen as being central to a community’s well-being?
Let’s think about the basic objective of a football club: it is to provide a social outlet for people who enjoy the game, people who wish to participate and probably, in most cases, to be successful.
Trouble is, success is now measured, particularly by those who play it, on where you finish on the ladder and for many clubs the cyclical nature of on-field failures drowns them eventually.
So how does a football club run?
Effectively, a lot of people spend hours and hours as volunteers to raise sufficient funds to ensure they can buy a team of players each year (no matter how poor the standard of the league).
This approach means a coach who is employed for a significant amount as well is pressured to create performances, so they look at ways to do so.
The game itself demands fitness and as a result the coaches crawl further and further into summer existence with pre-season training. Examples of minor leagues training in November and December are widespread.
Thus football becomes a 10 months of the year sport at every level.
Because of the transient nature of senior footballers and the culture of having to pay players that have become established, these players contribute very little long-term to any of the communities they become attached to via the club and, apart from attending football club functions and other club-based commitments, they very rarely become involved at a real community level with other sports, clubs, schools etc. In other words, they are takers.
Due to the demands on volunteers simply to keep on affording to buy these players, the turnover is extreme and magnified even more by the fact those people (the good community people) are often then lost from other areas of the community as well due to burn-out etc.
Now think about football and the culture of many clubs where it is actually about football and not the magnificent and hard-working netballers who, for no pay, essentially keep football afloat in many areas. We are putting 10 months of the year into community resources and people power into a team of senior footballers.
No one can begrudge the footballers as this is the system it has created.
But look at the enormous number of cricket and tennis players who no longer play the game between 18 and 35 years of age and ask why?
Simple maths would say no wife or girlfriend who has had their partner away from home for 10 months playing football will want them to then say “right, it is cricket season now and away we go”.
To the players not impacted like this, why would you want to involve yourself in a summer club that also has some commitments when you are totally burnt-out with the last 10 months, compounded by how many years you have played?
The sting in the tail is that eventually football will shoot itself in the foot with this approach, as many community volunteers are just that — they volunteer for football, cricket, school, fire brigades etc.
If we continue to jeopardise those other sports and commitments by placing an even bigger demand on the volunteers who run football, we eventually won’t have any left.
So the golden game that is propped up by Auskick figures and magnificent gate and TV ratings will fail to exist in communities that have so passionately allowed it to thrive all this time.
Then we have destroyed community sport for good, as smaller centres race to the larger centres for any fix of sport still available.
And later, as those young men arrive at 35-plus and have children wanting to play cricket and footy locally, it won’t exist because football has killed the golden goose.
Yet we have an opportunity to change this.
Football leagues (apart from the national and state leagues) that are often run by very well-meaning volunteers could restrict clubs from pre-season training until the end of January (people can keep fit themselves). The thousands of people who chat each week about how hard it is to find volunteers, how little the AFL really contributes to small clubs and nervously consider the divide they are creating in the general community by further alienating those who enjoy summer sport and contribute to the whole community wellbeing, could make a stand and say we are no longer going to pay players and they would be more likely to stay loyal to their respective clubs.
Cricket and tennis could then also put a hand out and pull down the wall by beginning in November to give players, partners and families a break from the grind of continuous weekend sport.
Although it is great to be involved, a break is always appreciated.
The alternative is an end to community sport and the growth of middle-management dreaming up ways to save both games that are not sustainable.
- John Pattison is a Warrnambool cricket and Auskick coach, teacher and parent.

Great article. Very true.

IMO there are two ways to stop smaller clubs fading into the distance.
That is for clubs to embrace the community and family spirit and pay the players what they can afford.

Yes on-field success is the key figure looked at at the end of each season, but if you can have a strong culture at a club then that can end up going a long way in the future. Tarrawingee were probably the last successful club to attract players by the culture they had introduced and, from what I had heard, not the amount of dollars they had splashed around. I personally think Milawa were the club that changed all that in the O&K.

At the end of the day, people are drawn to a football club for the social side of things. The problem is, people (the fans) are attracted to winning and successful sides too. This is the problem country football has.
Yes winning is fun, but to some people it is not absolutely everything and I would like to think that Greta is one of those clubs that has a great social calendar.

Another club that I am envious of is King Valley. As a club I have great repsect for their family and social involvement. They have not been successful over the last few seasons on field, but their social calendar is a credit to those that run the club. They are a great bunch of people to have a beer with after or during (in the stands of course) the games.

And more credit should probably be given to the netballers. :thumbsu:

It looks like $'s will ru(i)n country football for the next generation or so.
Hopefully, like the article states, it won't be to the detriment of the game in the foreseeable future.
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