Recommitted Ollie Wines [re-signed until 2026]

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I could imagine the Crows being interested in a conversation about Fantasia, but I'm not sure there'd be strong enough interest for a mind-blowing deal.

Maybe Gallucci and the WB 2nd round pick?
 

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Mego Red said:
I could imagine the Crows being interested in a conversation about Fantasia, but I'm not sure there'd be strong enough interest for a mind-blowing deal.

Maybe Gallucci and the WB 2nd round pick?
Click to expand...
I'm hoping you guys are more interested than what we are. I just feel either team is going to end up paying overs for him.
 
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Bucking Bronco said:
Duursma is one of the worst kicks in the game today.

Only young, but will be lucky to be getting a game in 5 years time if he doesn't clean it up considerably.

Kids get games regardless in developing teams when they're young provided they show enough promise, but once the honey moon period wears off, if they haven't tidied up their deficiencies they get turned on quickly.

History is littered with these types.

SPP would have been 2 top ten picks or GTFO after his first season ended, now some supporters would be happy just to get him out of the team.

Polec is one of the best outside mids in the game.

Overpaid? Yeah, by a bit, but there are worse cases out there.
Click to expand...

Just on that highlighted bit I decided to do a bit of digging to see if this was a truthful statement.

His disposal efficiency:
1582702513340.png

His effective disposals:
1582702545149.png

Downside:
1582702598637.png

But in that kind of company I think he's pretty safe.


The point is: I absolutely challenge the claim that he's one of the 'worst' kicks in the league, do you have evidence to validate that statement?
 
chickentendies said:
Just on that highlighted bit I decided to do a bit of digging to see if this was a truthful statement.

His disposal efficiency:
View attachment 829468

His effective disposals:
View attachment 829470

Downside:
View attachment 829476

But in that kind of company I think he's pretty safe.


The point is: I absolutely challenge the claim that he's one of the 'worst' kicks in the league, do you have evidence to validate that statement?
Click to expand...

Any time people start bringing out "the stats" it says "I don't actually watch the sport closely enough and don't really know what's going on so I'm going to look at the 'stats' and use it if it happens to backs up my personal biases which stem from being a one-eyed supporter".

You gonna tell me Nate Brown from Kilda is the biggest superboot in the game due to his standing at #1 for disposal efficiency.

What about Dylan Grimes, who makes the simple look hard on a regular basis, at #12.

Kyle Hartigan, maybe the worst kick in the game apparently is the 72nd best kick in the game (if you rely on DE to gauge who can kick and who can't).

Luke Shuey, one of the absolute best kicks in the game for an inside mid is apparently one of the worst kicks in the game.

What I care about is who routinely messes up straight forward kicks, not who sometimes has kicks not come off when they are kicks that have no margin for error, but have the potential to break the play open if they come off.

Duursma, as I said is only young, so he could get it up to 'acceptable', but currently, his timing is terrible, with kicks dropping short or going too long, way, way, way, too often.

Feel free to think what you want on the back of your "stats" though. You'll probably be listing him as trade bait in 5 years time after the honeymoon period has worn off and it has become apparent to even the most obtuse observer that his kicking makes him a liability - that's in the event it isn't improved to an acceptable standard, which it may, I'm just saying atm his kicking is markedly bad, first year or not.
 
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Kruzering said:
I'm not surprised he chose Carlton over Essendon, Carltons outlook it significantly better.

I do expect him to goto Essendon though, by the end of 2020 Setterfield, SPS, Dow, Cuningham, Fisher will have gone past Wines along with Cripps and Walsh so he won't really be a need.
Click to expand...

Wowee thats up there with the more silly calls.

Right now you only have 1 midfielder better than Wines and we all know who that is.
 
chickentendies said:
Just on that highlighted bit I decided to do a bit of digging to see if this was a truthful statement.

His disposal efficiency:
View attachment 829468

His effective disposals:
View attachment 829470

Downside:
View attachment 829476

But in that kind of company I think he's pretty safe.


The point is: I absolutely challenge the claim that he's one of the 'worst' kicks in the league, do you have evidence to validate that statement?
Click to expand...

Amazing to see Walsh has both most effective disposals and most turnovers.
Just shows the pure numbers he was putting up last year.
 
Bucking Bronco said:
Any time people start bringing out "the stats" it says "I don't actually watch the sport closely enough and don't really know what's going on so I'm going to look at the 'stats' and use it if it happens to backs up my personal biases which stem from being a one-eyed supporter".

You gonna tell me Nate Brown from Kilda is the biggest superboot in the game due to his standing at #1 for disposal efficiency.

What about Dylan Grimes, who makes the simple look hard on a regular basis, at #12.

Kyle Hartigan, maybe the worst kick in the game apparently is the 72nd best kick in the game (if you rely on DE to gauge who can kick and who can't).

Luke Shuey, one of the absolute best kicks in the game for an inside mid is apparently one of the worst kicks in the game.

What I care about is who routinely messes up straight forward kicks, not who sometimes has kicks not come off when they are kicks that have to have no margin for error, but have the potential to break the play open if they come off.

Duursma, as I said is only young, so he could get it up to 'acceptable', but currently, his timing is terrible, with kicks dropping short or going too long, way, way, way, too often.

Feel free to think what you want on the back of your "stats" though. You'll probably be listing him as trade bait in 5 years time after the honeymoon period has worn off and it has become apparent to even the most obtuse observer that his kicking makes him a liability - that's in the event it isn't improved to an acceptable standard, which it may, I'm just saying atm his kicking is markedly bad, first year or not.
Click to expand...

the TL;DR version of your post is that decision making, difficulty and risk aversion are factors that are not accounted for in the pure DE% numbers.
Is that what I'm supposed to take from it? I agree with you if that is the case.
 
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DangerSloane said:
Well Dow is an utter spud so lets start there.
Click to expand...

If Dow is a spud, what's Gibbs?

End of the day despite Wines desperately wanting to come to Carlton there will be no need for his services by the start of 2021
 
Kruzering said:
If Dow is a spud, what's Gibbs?

End of the day despite Wines desperately wanting to come to Carlton there will be no need for his services by the start of 2021
Click to expand...

Gibbs is 30 years old and has won your best and fairest.

He was your best player for like 5 years.

Sure he's over the hill now, but gee whiz you overrate your own.
If Gibbs was still there he'd be a superstar to you.
 
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Interesting we knocked Wines back. We must seriously rate the inside mids coming through, as Wines is at worst a solid player.

Setterfield will be a very good player though, and probably the main reason we said thanks but no thanks. Walsh will also bulk up and play more inside, and we’ve then got Kemp in the pipeline. A nice group of mids to work from.
 
DangerSloane said:
Gibbs is 30 years old and has won your best and fairest.

He was your best player for like 5 years.

Sure he's over the hill now, but gee whiz you overrate your own.
If Gibbs was still there he'd be a superstar to you.
Click to expand...

Form is form. Gibbs killed it in 2017, was very good for the Crows in 2018, and then dropped off a cliff in 2019. If he played with the lack of intent he showed last year we would be grilling him. Understandably though he’s realised his move to Adelaide won’t be profitable for him, and he’s lost some interest.

One of those trades we will win, but only because LOB and TDK will be best 22 long-term. Neither will be stars though.
 
La Dispute said:
Form is form. Gibbs killed it in 2017, was very good for the Crows in 2018, and then dropped off a cliff in 2019. If he played with the lack of intent he showed last year we would be grilling him. Understandably though he’s realised his move to Adelaide won’t be profitable for him, and he’s lost some interest.

One of those trades we will win, but only because LOB and TDK will be best 22 long-term. Neither will be stars though.
Click to expand...
Way out, both will be stars.
 
La Dispute said:
Form is form. Gibbs killed it in 2017, was very good for the Crows in 2018, and then dropped off a cliff in 2019. If he played with the lack of intent he showed last year we would be grilling him. Understandably though he’s realised his move to Adelaide won’t be profitable for him, and he’s lost some interest.

One of those trades we will win, but only because LOB and TDK will be best 22 long-term. Neither will be stars though.
Click to expand...

I mean we know full well there are mental/social issues at play with BG too.
We havent seen his best in a few years, probably becuase of that.
 
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