Recommitted Ollie Wines [re-signed until 2026]

[philthy05]

I'd much rather go for Sier, Constable, Brodie or Drew who can give us a similar (or maybe even better) output to Wines.

You just continue to make s**t up. How are you coming to the conclusion that these players can give similar or better output than wines? You’re not basing it on fact.

Wines has multiple seasons of 25d 5t 5clr and 4inside 50’s

Show me where these players have had close to that kind of record? You do that and I’ll leave this thread forever. Cmon. Try it.

 

[JUSTWORK]

You just continue to make sh*t up. How are you coming to the conclusion that these players can give similar or better output than wines? You’re not basing it on fact.

Wines has multiple seasons of 25d 5t 5clr and 4inside 50’s

Show me where these players have had close to that kind of record? You do that and I’ll leave this thread forever. Cmon. Try it.

I'll save him form needing to, only Cripps and Oliver can match Wines for those Numbers.

The notion that Sier, Drew or Brodie are as good is laughable.

 

[Schnitzengruben]

Racked up a whopping 17 touches last night at 43% DE. Looked fumbly and disinterested to say the least. Don't see how that output or his last couple years warrants $800k a year. Compare that to Zak Jones who was traded for a pick in the 30's and the performances are vastly different. I'm afraid the best may just be behind young Ollie.

 

[Elmer_Judd]

Racked up a whopping 17 touches last night at 43% DE. Looked fumbly and disinterested to say the least. Don't see how that output or his last couple years warrants $800k a year. Compare that to Zak Jones who was traded for a pick in the 30's and the performances are vastly different. I'm afraid the best may just be behind young Ollie.

Good, than he won't be traded to Essendon then if you think Port will let him go at that price.

 

[JayJ20]

You just continue to make sh*t up. How are you coming to the conclusion that these players can give similar or better output than wines? You’re not basing it on fact.

Wines has multiple seasons of 25d 5t 5clr and 4inside 50’s

Show me where these players have had close to that kind of record? You do that and I’ll leave this thread forever. Cmon. Try it.

No I’m not. I’ve made it very clear that past form doesn’t reflect current form. Who says Wines returns to his past form? You’re making it sound like Wines is this ultra beast consistent inside mid when he hasn’t shown that level of form in 2 years. His value will ultimately start dropping if he doesn’t perform. He was also dropped as captain, which isn’t adding to his value.

When did I say any of those players have performed to Wines’ level?

Looking at Essendon’s needs, why would we spend two first rounders on Wines when we can get cheaper alternatives who can give us what Wines is currently giving Port? That’s the context to my statement. Quoting past stats doesn’t somehow make what he’s giving you now any better.

 

[JUSTWORK]

Racked up a whopping 17 touches last night at 43% DE. Looked fumbly and disinterested to say the least. Don't see how that output or his last couple years warrants $800k a year. Compare that to Zak Jones who was traded for a pick in the 30's and the performances are vastly different. I'm afraid the best may just be behind young Ollie.

Has probably checked out, for what ever reason.

Your club is in a good position, Carlton probably wont be able to afford him (Trade wise, rather than salary as they are chasing Papely)

Good, than he won't be traded to Essendon then if you think Port will let him go at that price.

It will be first round plus, just depends on what the plus is. Daniher compo with a pick going back maybe.

Port won’t give him up cheap, only incentive for port would be if port want to use his salary on a free agent. But even then, we have the cap space to do that without needing to give up Wines.

 

[philthy05]

No I’m not. I’ve made it very clear that past form doesn’t reflect current form. Who says Wines returns to his past form? You’re making it sound like Wines is this ultra beast consistent inside mid when he hasn’t shown that level of form in 2 years. His value will ultimately start dropping if he doesn’t perform. He was also dropped as captain, which isn’t adding to his value.

When did I say any of those players have performed to Wines’ level?

Looking at Essendon’s needs, why would we spend two first rounders on Wines when we can get cheaper alternatives who can give us what Wines is currently giving Port? That’s the context to my statement. Quoting past stats doesn’t somehow make what he’s giving you now any better.

You very clearly said that those players could perform similar or better than wines!

His CURRENT performance is miles ahead of any of those players current or past performance.

 

[Yoda_]

Ok. Graham is 22 and done a fair bit

Reckon hed be handy for the port rebuild

What?

You mean the re build from top spot on the ladder?

Confused how you think that bud


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Marcel Proust]

What?

You mean the re build from top spot on the ladder?

Confused how you think that bud


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Looked fairly iffy last night. Let's see how it pans out.

10 players 29/29+

Fridge Graham had an average game but was decent previous, without the first choice mids available for the tigers. Still a kid, a lot to work with.

Don't really want wines anyway. Viney or crouch looks more upside.

 

[robbo1981]

Does dodo have multiple big footy accounts? Bloody seems like it.

 

[Schnitzengruben]

It's clear Kochie has a few accounts running around here.

 

[drcollossimo]

Racked up a whopping 17 touches last night at 43% DE. Looked fumbly and disinterested to say the least. Don't see how that output or his last couple years warrants $800k a year. Compare that to Zak Jones who was traded for a pick in the 30's and the performances are vastly different. I'm afraid the best may just be behind young Ollie.

Zak played well because it was literally impossible for him to give a holding the ball free kick away

Take possession
Tried to bullock through
Drop ball/throw ball
Nothing

Rinse n repeat was bizarre as it was corrupt

 

[drcollossimo]

It's clear Kochie has a few accounts running around here.

Could argue it’s clear you’ve been givin the “good stuff” Simon Goodwin was referring to

 

[TheGrizz]

For like the millionth ******* time

Fantasia had 1 moderately good ******* year years ago and has been horrible since

Wines missing a bit of the last 2 seasons isn’t the same and wines performance even when he’s down is currently miles miles better than Fantasia.

Stop comparing them like they’re equal. They are not.

Cool your jets.

No where did he say that Fantasia and Wines are equal. They are obviously not, and most Essendon supporters would agree they are not bar a couple floating around this board.

All he said was if the 'form' argument for devauing a player - which is BTW completely valid for Fantasia - then the same could be argued for a guy who played 12 games last year and is having career low numbers this season, notwithstanding the shortened games.

That doesnt mean Fantasia and Wines are equal in trade value, just that both have had a dip (and in Fantasia's case a plummeting) in their value over the last 18 months due to varying circumstances.

Take a breath, seriously.

 

[philthy05]

Cool your jets.

No where did he say that Fantasia and Wines are equal. They are obviously not, and most Essendon supporters would agree they are not bar a couple floating around this board.

All he said was if the 'form' argument for devauing a player - which is BTW completely valid for Fantasia - then the same could be argued for a guy who played 12 games last year and is having career low numbers this season, notwithstanding the shortened games.

That doesnt mean Fantasia and Wines are equal in trade value, just that both have had a dip (and in Fantasia's case a plummeting) in their value over the last 18 months due to varying circumstances.

Take a breath, seriously.

They’ve clearly said that their situations are the same, when they are not remotely comparable. They’ve tried to perpetuate this myth repeatedly. I’ve pointed out repeatedly why they are different.

Wines is nearing 150 games
Fantasia 80

Fantasia had 1 good season
Wines has had many good seasons

Fantasia hasn’t been able to stay on the park for years

Wines has only recently had injury trouble

Wines current form while down is still decent

Fantasias current form has been horrible

 

[JayJ20]

You very clearly said that those players could perform similar or better than wines!

His CURRENT performance is miles ahead of any of those players current or past performance.

Yes they can perform to that level. Wines hasn't really set the bar that high.

Wines is averaging 18 disposals, 3 clearances, 2 tackles and 8 contested possessions.

Brayden Sier averaged 19 disposals, 4 clearances, 4 tackles and 10 contested possessions as a 19 year old in a grand final side. Granted he hasn't had many opportunities since with suspensions, injuries and form issues, but I'd back Sier to get similar numbers to Wines' current output to date with us next year. If Wines goes ahead from here and returns to his previous form, then the two first rounders are warranted. If he continues this form lull, then there's no way he'll get two firsts.

A 1st and a 3rd is still a lot for a player, but obviously not the type of currency he once demanded.

 

[philthy05]

Yes they can perform to that level. Wines hasn't really set the bar that high.

Wines is averaging 18 disposals, 3 clearances, 2 tackles and 8 contested possessions.

Brayden Sier averaged 19 disposals, 4 clearances, 4 tackles and 10 contested possessions as a 19 year old in a grand final side. Granted he hasn't had many opportunities since with suspensions, injuries and form issues, but I'd back Sier to get similar numbers to Wines' current output to date with us next year. If Wines goes ahead from here and returns to his previous form, then the two first rounders are warranted. If he continues this form lull, then there's no way he'll get two firsts.

A 1st and a 3rd is still a lot for a player, but obviously not the type of currency he once demanded.

Facepalm

Did you really think any of this through?

Firstly your comparing wines numbers in shortened games to a blokes numbers from 2018 across a whopping 12 games

So the blokes best ever career numbers don’t match wines lowest numbers at any point of his career?

Well done.

 

[JUSTWORK]

Yes they can perform to that level. Wines hasn't really set the bar that high.

Wines is averaging 18 disposals, 3 clearances, 2 tackles and 8 contested possessions.

Brayden Sier averaged 19 disposals, 4 clearances, 4 tackles and 10 contested possessions as a 19 year old in a grand final side. Granted he hasn't had many opportunities since with suspensions, injuries and form issues, but I'd back Sier to get similar numbers to Wines' current output to date with us next year. If Wines goes ahead from here and returns to his previous form, then the two first rounders are warranted. If he continues this form lull, then there's no way he'll get two firsts.

A 1st and a 3rd is still a lot for a player, but obviously not the type of currency he once demanded.

Now try comparing their long term averages.

Only two players match Wines stats for disposals, contested possessions and clearances. They are Paddy Cripps and Oliver.

There is a reason your club (along with Carlton and Sydney) chasing Wines

 

[JayJ20]

Facepalm

Did you really think any of this through?

Firstly your comparing wines numbers in shortened games to a blokes numbers from 2018 across a whopping 12 games

So the blokes best ever career numbers don’t match wines lowest numbers at any point of his career?

Well done.

You seem to be clinging to everything when it's actually very simple. You really do need to take a breather and have a look at everything that's being discussed.

Your statement is factually incorrect as Wines averaged 18 disposals, 3 clearances and 8 contested possessions at the same stage in Sier's career (his debut year), but that's besides the point. Wines is 25 and Sier is a talented 21y/o. I'm not saying he will have the same career as Wines (very unlikely), but we need a big bodied inside mid that can at least play a role for us. Sier is more than capable of filling that role. Why spend two firsts on a player averaging career-low numbers, recent injuries and questionable leadership when we can address our needs with a second or third rounder? Sure he's not as good as Wines, but he'd be serviceable. We have a talented midfield in Shiel, McGrath, Parish and Merrett. They just need support from a bigger body. Wines certainly provides that, but so do Sier and the others I mentioned.

If Port ask for two firsts, then we'd hopefully decline. Essendon win and Port win.

 

[JayJ20]

Now try comparing their long term averages.

Only two players match Wines stats for disposals, contested possessions and clearances. They are Paddy Cripps and Oliver.

There is a reason your club (along with Carlton and Sydney) chasing Wines

One question. Do you think Essendon, Carlton or Sydney will accept two first rounders for Wines if he continues his current form?

 

[TheGrizz]

They’ve clearly said that their situations are the same, when they are not remotely comparable. They’ve tried to perpetuate this myth repeatedly. I’ve pointed out repeatedly why they are different.

Wines is nearing 150 games
Fantasia 80

Fantasia had 1 good season
Wines has had many good seasons

Fantasia hasn’t been able to stay on the park for years

Wines has only recently had injury trouble

Wines current form while down is still decent

Fantasias current form has been horrible

Again, read my comment.

I havent actually disagreed with either of your valuations of the two players. I have said on the Fantasia thread that Fantasia's value in a trade now is essentially zero/as steak knives as it stands.

Wines is still worth, at a minimum, a decent top 20 pick, but with 2 years of his contract Port will likely (and rightly) want more. However, i think most would agree that his value now is not what it was at the end of 2018 before he got injured and missed 10 games last year and had lesser returns this year.

The similarity is that their values have both diminished. However, by how much and their current values are both obviously vastly different.
Chill out.

 

[JUSTWORK]

One question. Do you think Essendon, Carlton or Sydney will accept two first rounders for Wines if he continues his current form?

Depends how desperate you are for him. Carlton won’t as they will also be trying to bring in Papley.

Possibly yes, maybe with a late second going back. Port have zero reason to give him up on the cheap.

 

[philthy05]

You seem to be clinging to everything when it's actually very simple. You really do need to take a breather and have a look at everything that's being discussed.

Your statement is factually incorrect as Wines averaged 18 disposals, 3 clearances and 8 contested possessions at the same stage in Sier's career (his debut year), but that's besides the point. Wines is 25 and Sier is a talented 21y/o. I'm not saying he will have the same career as Wines (very unlikely), but we need a big bodied inside mid that can at least play a role for us. Sier is more than capable of filling that role. Why spend two firsts on a player averaging career-low numbers, recent injuries and questionable leadership when we can address our needs with a second or third rounder? Sure he's not as good as Wines, but he'd be serviceable. We have a talented midfield in Shiel, McGrath, Parish and Merrett. They just need support from a bigger body. Wines certainly provides that, but so do Sier and the others I mentioned.

If Port ask for two firsts, then we'd hopefully decline. Essendon win and Port win.

You compared siers 12 game season in 2018 to wines current season in shortened games. Wines was much better than sier in his debut season if you want to make that comparison too.



You keep digging this hole.

 

[JayJ20]

Depends how desperate you are for him. Carlton won’t as they will also be trying to bring in Papley.

Possibly yes, maybe with a late second going back. Port have zero reason to give him up on the cheap.

I agree with the bolded. Port certainly aren't shopping him around and it would be crazy to do so when his value would be at an all time low (if he doesn't improve his form). It makes more sense for them to wait a year so that his value increases with a full-preseason under his belt. Will Wines be patient with that? No idea.

I highly doubt Sydney would entertain two firsts when they're in a rebuild. They won't be contending for a while.
Essendon definitely won't consider two firsts because they literally cannot trade two firsts. As per AFL policy, Essendon have to use their first rounder as we haven't used a first round pick since 2016.
Like you mentioned, Carlton are looking at Papley.

Richmond is an interesting one, but I doubt they have the salary cap for it.
St Kilda could be another left field option, but they don't need more inside mids.

 

[JayJ20]

You compared siers 12 game season in 2018 to wines current season in shortened games. Wines was much better than sier in his debut season if you want to make that comparison too.



You keep digging this hole.

Yeah and I'm not wrong. Oh so we need to use the shortened quarters excuse now to compare a 7th year player and a 1st year player? That actually proves my point. You keep saying I'm making s**t up but you're shifting goal posts the whole time and saying whatever you want. "Wines was better in his debut year than Sier" without any factual evidence for that. "It's 12 games" as if that somehow makes it worse. Those 12 games included a Quarter final, a Semi final, a Prelim and the grand final. Fairly impressive for a 19 year old.

Anyway there really isn't any point going around in circles. You made your point. I made mine. Let's agree to disagree.