Recommitted Ollie Wines [re-signed]

[Malifice]

Happy to give up a top 4 pick?

For the right player, absolutely.

After this year we will have hit the draft hard for 4 years running, and along with trades with GWS have brought in literally dozens of players aged 18-22.

We can afford to trade out of a draft or two (starting next year) in order to get the right talent to fill holes on the list and provide experience for those young uns to grow with.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

For the right player, absolutely.

Is Wines the right player at this stage of the rebuild? I dont believe so

 

[Malifice]

Is Wines the right player at this stage of the rebuild? I dont believe so

I wouldn't say no. Hes a very good mid.

We could do a lot worse than (say) draft Rankine this year (plus two other very good players with our 2 x 2nd rounders), trade in Wines for next years 1st (likely a low pick) + change.

Next year we have no 1st rounder, but can throw the bank at Shiel as a F/A for 1m+ a season to cover for that loss of a 1st.

Our younger brigade will have another 50 or so games by the end of next season also.

We should be all but ready to hit 2020 and move into finals contention that year.

Midfield of Cripps, Wines, Shiel, SPS, Dow, Rankine, Fisher, Kennedy doesn't impress?

 

[HereComesJuddy]

I wouldn't say no. Hes a very good mid.

We could do a lot worse than (say) draft Rankine this year (plus two other very good players with our 2 x 2nd rounders), trade in Wines for next years 1st (likely a low pick) + change.

Next year we have no 1st rounder, but can throw the bank at Shiel as a F/A for 1m+ a season to cover for that loss of a 1st.

Our younger brigade will have another 50 or so games by the end of next season also.

We should be all but ready to hit 2020 and move into finals contention that year.

Midfield of Cripps, Wines, Shiel, SPS, Dow, Rankine, Fisher, Kennedy doesn't impress?

Not saying it doesn't impress. Dont see SOS doing it. Also think if we offered Port a future 1st for the next captain, they would argue its no guarantee its a great pick and would want more.

I just dont think that's where we need to go just yet. Gaff for just coin is what id be set on doing.

 

[RudyBlue]

Why not invest again? Why not be more like the Cats and pick up a Kelly with a second round pick. I don't believe sos will rush the rebuild.

What will just 1 player in wines do for a lowly club like us next year? We aren't making the 8. Just take the best available kids and some matures with 2-3 rounders.

We need to replace the likes of Murphy, Curnow, Thomas and Simpson as well as bring young guys in. If those 4 fall off a cliff next year, things could be dire.

A high quality senior player with a 2019 1st rounder and some decent FAs this year and next could help mitigate that risk.

 

[Wild Bill]

Essendon should trade Stringer, Saad and Smith for him.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

We need to replace the likes of Murphy, Curnow, Thomas and Simpson as well as bring young guys in. If those 4 fall off a cliff next year, things could be dire.

A high quality senior player with a 2019 1st rounder and some decent FAs this year and next could help mitigate that risk.

I just wouldn't be giving up a 1st this or next at this stage of the rebuild.

 

[RudyBlue]

I just wouldn't be giving up a 1st this or next at this stage of the rebuild.

Wines (or equivalent) next year >>> some kid in 2020.

We have so many 1st rd draft picks already. We need to bridge the generation gap. It's killing us.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Wines (or equivalent) next year >>> some kid in 2020.

We have so many 1st rd draft picks already. We need to bridge the generation gap. It's killing us.

What do you mean by killing us?
There's more chance in 2020 we have moved up the ladder.
I think a good list manager understands the importance in a top 3 or 5 draft pick. Yes it may not always work out, but i dont see SOS giving up a top 5 pick when we are sitting so low (and will so for at least another year). Wines wont fix it.

We are best to find mature mids via trades with later picks (as in rounds 2 and onwards)

 

[RudyBlue]

What do you mean by killing us?
There's more chance in 2020 we have moved up the ladder.
I think a good list manager understands the importance in a top 3 or 5 draft pick. Yes it may not always work out, but i dont see SOS giving up a top 5 pick when we are sitting so low (and will so for at least another year). Wines wont fix it.

We are best to find mature mids via trades with later picks (as in rounds 2 and onwards)

I'm not saying we should give the pick away at all costs, but I would more than happily shop it around.

 

[Andronicus]

One of us clearly hasn’t read the thread, but it’s not me.

You said “most Bombers posters in this thread” and then quoted a single poster, that was quite clearly taking the piss, then go on to suggest someone else hasn’t read the thread?

Well done.

 

[Lindsay_Gilbee]

Why would Wines want to go to Carlton? If he comes home (which I doubt) it will be to a team who is actually good.

 

[THE_GUN]

More chance we cash it in for 2 1st round picks imo than for a player like Wines

So quantity not Quality for Carlton then ?

If we finish bottom four I would give our first pick for Wines no probs but i don't see him leaving.

I highly doubt that would be enough to be honest
Lever - 2 x 1st round picks
Treloar - 2 x 1st round picks

Wines is a Machine and imo worth more than the above 2 mentioned

 

[THE_GUN]

I wouldn't say no. Hes a very good mid.

We could do a lot worse than (say) draft Rankine this year (plus two other very good players with our 2 x 2nd rounders), trade in Wines for next years 1st (likely a low pick) + change.

Next year we have no 1st rounder, but can throw the bank at Shiel as a F/A for 1m+ a season to cover for that loss of a 1st.

Our younger brigade will have another 50 or so games by the end of next season also.

We should be all but ready to hit 2020 and move into finals contention that year.

Midfield of Cripps, Wines, Shiel, SPS, Dow, Rankine, Fisher, Kennedy doesn't impress?

So 29 year old Gibbs get 2 1st rounders but Ollie Wines for a speculative range 1st round pick , The only way Carlton have a shot at Wines is this years #1 pick lets be realistic

 

[Malifice]

So 29 year old Gibbs get 2 1st rounders but Ollie Wines for a speculative range 1st round pick

Have another look at the trade. We also handed over our second and third round draft picks, and got Adelaide's second rounder back.

It was something like picks 10 and 17 and 33 for Gibbs and 19 and 37.

Total points value was roundabout pick 7.

 

[adammania9]

So quantity not Quality for Carlton then ?

I highly doubt that would be enough to be honest
Lever - 2 x 1st round picks
Treloar - 2 x 1st round picks

Wines is a Machine and imo worth more than the above 2 mentioned

Mitchell - 1x mid-first round pick

Mitchell 2016 and Wines 2018 are pretty similar players. This must be his worth.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[philthy05]

Mitchell - 1x mid-first round pick

Mitchell 2016 and Wines 2018 are pretty similar players. This must be his worth.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Sydney couldn’t keep Mitchell and his career to the date he was traded was nothing like wines. I’m not sure if you could have got that more wrong.

 

[adammania9]

Sydney couldn’t keep Mitchell and his career to the date he was traded was nothing like wines. I’m not sure if you could have got that more wrong.

Mitchell 2016 vs Wines 2018 (averages)
Disposals: 27.8 vs. 27.3 (27.3 for 2017)
Kicks: 10.8 vs. 12.67 (12.34 for 2017)
Goals: 0.57 vs. 0.33 (0.65 for 2017)
Tackles: 6.15 vs. 4 (5.08 for 2017)
Inside 50’s: 3.8 vs. 2.5 (4.2 for 2017)
Clearances: 3.57 vs. 7.3 (6 for 2017)
contested possessions: 12 vs. 13 (13.8 for 2017)

Awfully similar stats, despite Mitchell working with two superior inside mids above him.

 

[Foucault1989]

Mitchell 2016 vs Wines 2018 (averages)
Disposals: 27.8 vs. 27.3 (27.3 for 2017)
Kicks: 10.8 vs. 12.67 (12.34 for 2017)
Goals: 0.57 vs. 0.33 (0.65 for 2017)
Tackles: 6.15 vs. 4 (5.08 for 2017)
Inside 50’s: 3.8 vs. 2.5 (4.2 for 2017)
Clearances: 3.57 vs. 7.3 (6 for 2017)
contested possessions: 12 vs. 13 (13.8 for 2017)

Awfully similar stats, despite Mitchell working with two superior inside mids above him.

I tend to agree with you. Port would want nothing less than pick 1 and probably an early 2nd for Wines and fair enough too

 

[1970crow]

I’d be down for that -

SOS loves trading with the Crows!

He's quite reasonable as it turns out. Pick 10 for a contracted Gibbs was a pretty fair deal.

 

[philthy05]

Mitchell 2016 vs Wines 2018 (averages)
Disposals: 27.8 vs. 27.3 (27.3 for 2017)
Kicks: 10.8 vs. 12.67 (12.34 for 2017)
Goals: 0.57 vs. 0.33 (0.65 for 2017)
Tackles: 6.15 vs. 4 (5.08 for 2017)
Inside 50’s: 3.8 vs. 2.5 (4.2 for 2017)
Clearances: 3.57 vs. 7.3 (6 for 2017)
contested possessions: 12 vs. 13 (13.8 for 2017)

Awfully similar stats, despite Mitchell working with two superior inside mids above him.

And how about the years before that when Ollie was also smashing it but Tom was either injured or not matching Ollie’s output?

 

[THE_GUN]

Mitchell 2016 vs Wines 2018 (averages)
Disposals: 27.8 vs. 27.3 (27.3 for 2017)
Kicks: 10.8 vs. 12.67 (12.34 for 2017)
Goals: 0.57 vs. 0.33 (0.65 for 2017)
Tackles: 6.15 vs. 4 (5.08 for 2017)
Inside 50’s: 3.8 vs. 2.5 (4.2 for 2017)
Clearances: 3.57 vs. 7.3 (6 for 2017)
contested possessions: 12 vs. 13 (13.8 for 2017)

Awfully similar stats, despite Mitchell working with two superior inside mids above him.

No compare the JOM trade and Treloar trade ? How about Gibbs

 

[THE_GUN]

Have another look at the trade. We also handed over our second and third round draft picks, and got Adelaide's second rounder back.

It was something like picks 10 and 17 and 33 for Gibbs and 19 and 37.

Total points value was roundabout pick 7.

Even looking at your trade of the Gibbs Scenario , Surely a 23 years old A grade quality inside bull like Wines is worth alot more than Gibbs, You could compare him to a Patrick Cripps what would carlton expect for Cripps if he was courted by West Coast 2x top 10 picks imo

 

[Malifice]

Even looking at your trade of the Gibbs Scenario , Surely a 23 years old A grade quality inside bull like Wines is worth alot more than Gibbs, You could compare him to a Patrick Cripps what would carlton expect for Cripps if he was courted by West Coast 2x top 10 picks imo

Yeah; that's why I suggested the future first rounder (a probable top three pick) plus heavy change (another pick in the top 20).

Worst-case scenario thats pick 3 and pick 20. It has the same points as pick one, and is getting close to the price we paid for Chris Judd 10 years ago (if I were to throw in a young Josh Kennedy as well).

 

[Tiger71]

I wouldn't say no. Hes a very good mid.

We could do a lot worse than (say) draft Rankine this year (plus two other very good players with our 2 x 2nd rounders), trade in Wines for next years 1st (likely a low pick) + change.

Next year we have no 1st rounder, but can throw the bank at Shiel as a F/A for 1m+ a season to cover for that loss of a 1st.

Our younger brigade will have another 50 or so games by the end of next season also.

We should be all but ready to hit 2020 and move into finals contention that year.

Midfield of Cripps, Wines, Shiel, SPS, Dow, Rankine, Fisher, Kennedy doesn't impress?

You deadset live in fantasy land. If wines left, they would at minimum ask for your top pick this year as this draft for mids is very strong, as well as ask for a first round next year or force you to offer them another first rounder this year too.

Your scenario is laughable as its all weighted in helping you out while stalling port for competing as a contender next year.