Roast On-field leadership

With all the attention focused on the performance of the Head Coach, I wanted to create a thread to discuss what I think is a severely overlooked issue plaguing our club in 2022;

A complete lack of on-field leadership.

As a reminder, our leadership group consists of;

  • Jack Ziebell - Captain
  • Jy Simpkin - Vice Captain
  • Luke McDonald - Vice Captain
  • Kayne Turner
  • Aidan Corr
  • Nick Larkey
  • Ben Cunnington

Now, obviously Ben Cunnington gets excused from this conversation given his health issues, but in my opinion every other name on that list has failed to consistently demonstrate any sort of on-field leadership this year. And I'm not solely talking about their own individual performances on-the-field. I'm not talking about 'kicking a captain's goal'. I'm talking about things like setting the tone for your team-mates. I'm talking about things like standing up for the jumper and playing with pride.

It's hard to define as leadership is intangible, but you know it when you see it, and NMFC supporters haven't seen much of it this year at all.

Goldstein, McKay, Hall, and even JHF have shown a bit of leadership at different points this year, but not in any sort of consistent manner, and the fact that none of them are in the leadership group is noteable.

Meanwhile, Ziebell has been largely MIA on the field all year, and McDonald and Larkey have demonstrated terrible body language and accountability multiple times this season.

I know many people here want a new coach for 2023 (if not sooner, but let's leave that discussion for the other threads). But to me, we also desperately need new on-field leaders in 2023 and beyond. And in my opinion, giving it to Simpkin or McDonald would be the wrong move. I understand that they're considered the favourites for the gig after Ziebell, but I really think they do not demonstrate the leadership qualities we need to see from our next Captain.

The problem is there aren't a huge amount of other candidates putting their hands up for the job. Maybe McKay? Maybe LDU if he finishes 2022 strongly?

It's a tough situation and one that we should be acknowledging more than we perhaps do, as a supporter base.
 
Excellent post Chadwiko.

I was firmly in the camp that Jy would be the next captain of the club, but he has suffered as much as anyone by having to bear the burden of being the midfield leader. In saying this, isn't it essentially a "preview" of what he would be capable of delivering if bestowed with the title?

Looking at the rest of the side, I tend to agree that LDU is showing as many leadership capabilities as anyone. The risk however is that his growth as an individual footballer is impacted by taking on the Captains role. It's an interesting conundrum!
 

Mcarcherey

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I think leaders need to be in the top 3, if not the best player in the team. they should be almost certain to win, or at the very minimum cause a stoppage when they're 1 on 1.

if we moved the ball with speed and able to send it to zurhaar without it being a long bomb deep in F50 with 3 players on him i think he'd be a great leader. some of the things he does really shows leadership by example. if you give him half a chance and he can get the team out of trouble and give them some momentum. he's also ruthless with vicious tackles and bumps.

unfortunately he probably thinks he's inconsistent and needs to work on his own game when in reality our forward movement is vomit.
 
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I was screaming in the off-season that the Feng Shui and juju of the playing group needed a reset.

Although Jy Simpkin hasn't been stellar form all year I think we would've had a freshen up and better buy-in changing things up by appointing him captain.

I suspect Todd not being a "lad" has hurt his inclusion in leadership groups over the years. What he is - a consummate professional, elite at his craft and very intelligent and personable in his own way.

I think had he been dragged aside and TOLD by a coach that he's going to be the captain and we are looking to him to set the agenda - he'd have risen to the challenge.

A hypothetical we'll never prove however.
 
Mar 23, 2001
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I was screaming in the off-season that the Feng Shui and juju of the playing group needed a reset.

Although Jy Simpkin hasn't been stellar form all year I think we would've had a freshen up and better buy-in changing things up by appointing him captain.

I suspect Todd not being a "lad" has hurt his inclusion in leadership groups over the years. What he is - a consummate professional, elite at his craft and very intelligent and personable in his own way.

I think had he been dragged aside and TOLD by a coach that he's going to be the captain and we are looking to him to set the agenda - he'd have risen to the challenge.

A hypothetical we'll never prove however.
Totally agree mate.
 
Although Jy Simpkin hasn't been stellar form all year I think we would've had a freshen up and better buy-in changing things up by appointing him captain.

After watching him drag himself after that turn over in the last quarter, proceed to go to the bench where he had to put the towel over his head for a bit, I do wonder if form has crumbled under the immense pressure that he has had placed on him by himself and by others.

We have been devoid of spiritual leadership in Cunners and performance leadership by all other senior players.

I think he's tried to do both and achieved neither
 
I suspect Todd not being a "lad" has hurt his inclusion in leadership groups over the years. What he is - a consummate professional, elite at his craft and very intelligent and personable in his own way.
I like Toddy and he's a decent bloke and has good leadership qualities on the field.

But the off-field issues around his marriage breakup and subsequent relationship essentially ruled out ever being a part of the leadership group, IIRC.
 

Mcarcherey

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I like Toddy and he's a decent bloke and has good leadership qualities on the field.

But the off-field issues around his marriage breakup and subsequent relationship essentially ruled out ever being a part of the leadership group, IIRC.
shame. back then he was mentally shot, dropped and worked his way back to his best and hasn't looked back. if you have been through that kind adversity you know exactly how to address it in future and turn things around. it's so much more difficult coming back from rock bottom. a great quality to have, especially in a leader.
 
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Also talking about on field leadership, for the first time ever I thought LDU stood up on the weekend and really tried to stamp himself on the game in a way that we haven't had a player do other than Cunnington in a long time. It was a shame he missed those couple of goal opportunities as his belief would've gone to another level if he nailed them.
 

zoomba23

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Agree that there haven't been enough guys showing initiative onfield to communicate with their teammates about this or that, as well as setting an example for the rest of the team through an action ie. Shepherding, tackling, remonstrating with an opposition player after a cheap shot (Ainsworth). Larkey doesn't belong in the leadership group imo. Has been running his guts out recently but he doesn't radiate authority or the ability to set an example. Goldy showed admirable leadership by talking to JHF when he was frustrated. Too gentle to be a captain figure but imperative to the team's leadership stocks nonetheless. Turner's just Turner. Tries his hardest but isn't good enough for the level. 3 disposals at 0% efficiency doesn't exactly inspire confidence in your teammates, I'd wager. JZ still offers grit and still pours his heart and soul into his game, but I don't see him talking with his teammates about issues that need to be resolved overly often. That should be a responsibility as skipper. This kind of thing is what we lost by delisting those blokes at the end of 2016 and it's also what we lost by delisting some of those 11 guys more recently (Dumont and JMac, yes I know, in particular). Obviously we've missed Cunners dearly too. He might not be a leader in the traditional sense but his presence is enough to lift the rest of the team. The result of all this: a glut of promising young blokes handicapped by a lack of senior players who can guide them through this period. It's crucial we keep our older senior players through this time while they still have fuel in the tank, and hopefully guys like McKay, Phillips (eventually), Scott (jury's still out on him but I see a leader there) and Jy will learn off the senior blokes and become the next generation of fully fledged leaders, who are able to play at their best while juggling that responsibility. As a side note, I don't see leadership qualities in LDU. I see a player with the potential to become a superstar who'd do better without that burden on his shoulders.
 
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I like Toddy and he's a decent bloke and has good leadership qualities on the field.

But the off-field issues around his marriage breakup and subsequent relationship essentially ruled out ever being a part of the leadership group, IIRC.

Maybe. I do recall talk of fallouts within the peer group incl Swallow (to have a 2014 version of him back now) considering they all socialised together as families etc.

Fwiw I think Cunnington talk is more romantic than anything. Our best player of the last decade but looks to be more attuned to mentoring a couple of players he can form a close relationship with than taking carriage of an entire team.

Have said before I think talk of his mute status is exaggerated for comic effect. He's considered and well spoken but just can't see him ever having wanted all the quirks and duties that go with the very top role.
 
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If we ain’t got them - recruit them.
Angus brayshaw - throw big money at him , more for his leadership than his actual footy.
Hurn is another and someone mentioned Lloyd from swans - he might not be a face of the club type but looks like a leader onfield
 
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Brisbane went out and got Hodge, Melbourne got Lewis.
The most successful club of recent times has been Richmond. I struggle to think of anyone from there beside Cotchin which would send this place into turmoil.
Leaders have to lead by example and they are hard to come by.
 
The most successful club of recent times has been Richmond. I struggle to think of anyone from there beside Cotchin which would send this place into turmoil.
Cotchin and pay him more than he’s worth to get him.

Vlaustin would be good but contracted forever.

It’d be turmoil until he plays. Im not really a fan of his BTW but you’d be buying system.
 
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A quick scan across the league for players who would bring leadership and experience:

Rory Sloane
David Mundy
Josh Kennedy (Syd)
Josh Kennedy (WC)
Shannon Hurn
 

AnEmptyChair

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it's literally impossible to make these judgments without more knowledge

99% of leadership happens behind closed doors - team meetings, one on one interactions with players, setting training standards, interactions with young players, handling team-led discipline etc

what happens on field is only a fraction of that role. it's why we see a turner in the leadership group, when based on what happens on the field a lot of people think he shouldn't be in the side

if a player is MIA on the field is it because they're a terrible leader or they're just not up to it physically/talent wise anymore? are they taking on more pressure/responsibility because of their status as a leader and our performances and that's affecting their form? or are they a bad leader? bad form =/= bad leadership necessarily

there's also another element of leadership where they act as a sort of conduit between the playing group and the coaching staff, almost like their representatives.

if there's a breakdown in the relationship between coaching staff and players it puts the leaders into an impossible situation. they're subject to the staff's instructions while being representatives of the playing group.

my point is that most of the judgments in this thread, and the thread itself - a roast - are impossible to make without more information and being privy to conversations and meetings that literally none of us have access to

what good is leadership if the systems around them in terms of performance are fundamentally flawed? to be clear, I'm not saying this is the case, but how can you lead consistently if you don't fundamentally believe in the leaders above you and what you're being told to do?

way too many permutations and that's why i think this thread achieves nothing and is misguided in so far as identifying problems at the footy club
 
Last edited:
Sep 21, 2008
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With all the attention focused on the performance of the Head Coach, I wanted to create a thread to discuss what I think is a severely overlooked issue plaguing our club in 2022;

A complete lack of on-field leadership.

As a reminder, our leadership group consists of;

  • Jack Ziebell - Captain
  • Jy Simpkin - Vice Captain
  • Luke McDonald - Vice Captain
  • Kayne Turner
  • Aidan Corr
  • Nick Larkey
  • Ben Cunnington

Now, obviously Ben Cunnington gets excused from this conversation given his health issues, but in my opinion every other name on that list has failed to consistently demonstrate any sort of on-field leadership this year. And I'm not solely talking about their own individual performances on-the-field. I'm not talking about 'kicking a captain's goal'. I'm talking about things like setting the tone for your team-mates. I'm talking about things like standing up for the jumper and playing with pride.

It's hard to define as leadership is intangible, but you know it when you see it, and NMFC supporters haven't seen much of it this year at all.

Goldstein, McKay, Hall, and even JHF have shown a bit of leadership at different points this year, but not in any sort of consistent manner, and the fact that none of them are in the leadership group is noteable.

Meanwhile, Ziebell has been largely MIA on the field all year, and McDonald and Larkey have demonstrated terrible body language and accountability multiple times this season.

I know many people here want a new coach for 2023 (if not sooner, but let's leave that discussion for the other threads). But to me, we also desperately need new on-field leaders in 2023 and beyond. And in my opinion, giving it to Simpkin or McDonald would be the wrong move. I understand that they're considered the favourites for the gig after Ziebell, but I really think they do not demonstrate the leadership qualities we need to see from our next Captain.

The problem is there aren't a huge amount of other candidates putting their hands up for the job. Maybe McKay? Maybe LDU if he finishes 2022 strongly?

It's a tough situation and one that we should be acknowledging more than we perhaps do, as a supporter base.
I said at the start of the year that it was the most embarrassing leadership group (outside of McDonald & Simpkin) I think I've ever seen. You have two players in there who struggle to get 10 possessions a game let alone actually having an impact. You have a key defender (Corr) who only likes to play as a loose defender and you have Larkey who is lacking a fair bit of maturity.

To be a good leader, you actually have to have influence on field. That's the number 1 thing imo. All the best captains make their teammates walk taller, through their actions on field.
The question i have, is what have we done to create good leaders?

Nothing, absolutely nothing. We gutted the list of maturity and let guys like Tarrant & Dumont go for nothing.

The void of leadership at all levels has been prevalent since we sacked Boomer, Spud, Petrie ect.
 
Jun 8, 2004
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Nothing, absolutely nothing. We gutted the list of maturity and let guys like Tarrant & Dumont go for nothing.

The void of leadership at all levels has been prevalent since we sacked Boomer, Spud, Petrie ect.

You raise real issues with the loss of those guys, i'd include Higgins to the list as well.

But, I'm more interested what we are doing off field and do we do anything externally to develop leaders.
What have Simpkin, Mcdonald etc ever done to improve their leadership skills. or is it all just learning from the guys around them. Even the best leaders need to work on themselves.
 
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