On Paper - 2018: Best and Worst Defense, Midfield and Forward Lines?

[adammania9]

Interesting how quickly a team can come on. If this was 12 months ago, Richmond would have been listed near or at the bottom for most of the categories.

Their forwardline looked s**t on paper. Now it looks genius.

In 2016 I had the Tigers as having a very good back line but not top of the line; a solid midfield and having a putrid forward line. I think I had them 11th or 12th at the start of the year, and there's a thread somewhere where I'm arguing that Chris Mayne offers more than Shane Edwards. Oh how the times can change.

Good coaching can take you a long, long way.

 

[adammania9]

I think if the Dockers had a better forward line to kick to, their midfield would be hailed as one of the best. That's why I think if they recruit Jesse Hogan by some chance, they'll instantly be a finals team because they need a strong tall target to really get the team to click. Walters should remain a forward, I don't understand the fascination of turning good small-medium forwards into midfielders (Motlop, Wingard, Stringer etc)

 

[stax on the mull]

But again, if you've only got three guys who can perform that role, then it makes it hard to compete with other teams who have deeper midfields. Fremantle got smashed in contested possessions this year, only winning it six times.

Contested possessions aren't a clear measure of midfield power because contested possessions occur all over the ground - and it isn't a sole indication of how you win or lose.

You can get beaten by losing the uncontested possession count as often as you can get beaten when you lose with a lower contested possession.

Clearances might be some indication of midfield power i.e. getting your hands on the ball first at a stoppage but then its about where that next possession goes.

Examples

Fremantle Round 18 vs Hawthorn Subiaco
Contested Possession
Fremantle 132 Hawthorn 127
Clearances
Fremantle 35 Hawthorn 23
Result Hawthorn win by 52pts

Fremantle Round 20 vs Gold Coast Subiaco
Contested Possessions
Fremantle 109 Gold Coast 146
Clearances
Fremantle 38 Gold Coast 33
Result Fremantle win by 23 points

 

[Simon_Says]

Neville Jetta would be the best negating small/medium defender in the league apart from Nick Smith.
Hibberd is a rebounding freak

Jetta is always getting overlooked by media, AA selectors. Your praise is fantastic. Cheers

Asks you would know how good Hibb is; what a catch, you have me than made up for losing him and Melksham in this trade period.

 

[Richo83]

Contested possessions aren't a clear measure of midfield power because contested possessions occur all over the ground - and it isn't a sole indication of how you win or lose.

You can get beaten by losing the uncontested possession count as often as you can get beaten when you lose with a lower contested possession.

Historically, contested possession has been a much better indicator of who will win the football than UP, because football, especially finals football, is about winning first possession, especially in contested areas. In recent times there's been stats which show up to 70% of the time a team wins contested possession, they win the game.

I also don't think the fact that contested possession happens all over the ground really means anything, midfielders win contested possessions in the backline and forwardline as midfielders play goalsquare to goalsquare these days. Nearly all of the top contested possession winners in 2017 were midfielders.

Clearances might be some indication of midfield power i.e. getting your hands on the ball first at a stoppage but then its about where that next possession goes.

Examples

Fremantle Round 18 vs Hawthorn Subiaco
Contested Possession
Fremantle 132 Hawthorn 127
Clearances
Fremantle 35 Hawthorn 23
Result Hawthorn win by 52pts

Fremantle Round 20 vs Gold Coast Subiaco
Contested Possessions
Fremantle 109 Gold Coast 146
Clearances
Fremantle 38 Gold Coast 33
Result Fremantle win by 23 points

First of all, they're two examples. Secondly, clearances are often a poor way of indicating how a midfield goes because it generally only measures around the 60-80 times a clearance happens, as opposed to the 250-300 CP moments which gives a broader analysis of how the team is winning the ball and who isn't. There's plenty of moments where the ball is up for grabs in the midfield but there isn't a stoppage, meaning a clearance can't occur.

Secondly, often a first possession in a stoppage doesn't go anywhere, because stoppages for ballups, throwins and center bounces attract a crowd. Whereas contested possessions are often won with often no more than two players, meaning that a contested possession can often be fed out to a free player.

 

[SCRAY72]

In 2017. Best defense, midfield and forward line goes to Richmond.

Best for 2018
Forwards - Hawks
Midfield - Geelong obviously
Backs - GWS

 

[Appa]

Best team defense - Richmond
Best team offense - Adelaide

Best 6 Forwards - Hawks
Best 6 Mids - GWS
Best 6 Defenders - I'm not sure but maybe Lever will edge Melbourne ahead

 

[X_box_X]

Bump.

 

[DieSwans]

Best defense - WCE

Best midfield - WCE

Best forward line - WCE

 

[Coaster2012]

I been reading this thread for 5 minutes thinking it was new. I couldn't believe how so many posters had Essendon as a better forward line than the Eagles.

Now I get it.

Best Forward line: WC

Best Midfield: Collingwood

Best Defence: Richmond

 

[Da Main Man]

Best Forward line: WC

Best Midfield: Collingwood

Best Defence: Richmond

we were towelled up without you having Gaff and Nat...

if we do have a better midfield there is a bee's dick in it.

your forward line is beasty!

 

[kaiserchief13]

Fwd -WCE

Mid - Melb

Def - WCE

These are predictions for 2019, right?

 

[Pykie]

Best defence: Tigers, swans, Demons, Eagles

Worst: Hawks, Suns, Saints, North


Best Midfields: Cats, Gws, Pies, Swans

Worst: Suns, North, blues, eagles


Best forward line: Crows, GWS, Swans, Bombers

Worst: Suns, Blues, pies, Freo

So we have one of the worst midfielders and worst defence's? by definition that would make us a bottom team.

Yet we ranked right behind Melbourne and Collingwood for points against and not far behind West Coast for points for.

The trio of Tarrant, Daw and Thompson is as good as anyones backline statstically. Daw was second only to McGovern in 2018 for contested marks in the back half.

 

[X_box_X]

Defence: West Coast

Midfield: Collingwood (with Beams)

Forward: West Coast

 

[Grrr]

I would think Richmond's forward would be one of the best in the league, on the provision that Lynch is over his injury issues.
HF: Edwards Riewoldt Lambert/Butler
F: Rioli Lynch Caddy

 

[kerr87]

Westcoast's forward line is hard to top:

Kennedy, Darling, Lecras, Ryan, Cripps and Rioli.

Our defense is incredibly underrated. Players like Barrass, Sheppard and Cole don't get the credit they deserve.

 

[carnthedons]

I been reading this thread for 5 minutes thinking it was new. I couldn't believe how so many posters had Essendon as a better forward line than the Eagles.

Now I get it.

Best Forward line: WC

Best Midfield: Collingwood

Best Defence: Richmond

Preseason thread and injuries to Raz and Joe skew perception. Think WC are number 1 but bombers likely number two. Daniher, Stringer, Fantasia, Walla is a good place to start from (and all still got plenty of time ahead of them). Key will be Stewart/McKernan/Brown/Hooker as another marking option and improvement of young guys like Begley/Laverde.

 

[X_box_X]

Preseason thread and injuries to Raz and Joe skew perception. Think WC are number 1 but bombers likely number two. Daniher, Stringer, Fantasia, Walla is a good place to start from (and all still got plenty of time ahead of them). Key will be Stewart/McKernan/Brown/Hooker as another marking option and improvement of young guys like Begley/Laverde.

That, and the fact that the expectations on Stringer were too high.

Sadly, 2018 was always going to be the best season you'd get from Stringer. It's only downhill from here.

 

[Lsta062]

Defence - Richmond & West Coast
Midfield - Melbourne & Collingwood
Offence - West Coast & Adelaide

 

[carnthedons]

That, and the fact that the expectations on Stringer were too high.

Sadly, 2018 was always going to be the best season you'd get from Stringer. It's only downhill from here.

Those grapes are sour buddy.

Jake’s 24, if he can get his head right then no reason he can’t improve especially with other players attracting better defenders. Teams will play tighter to Joe Daniher than Mitch Brown.

 

[X_box_X]

Those grapes are sour buddy.

Jake’s 24, if he can get his head right then no reason he can’t improve especially with other players attracting better defenders. Teams will play tighter to Joe Daniher than Mitch Brown.

For Jake's sake and Essendon's sake, I hope you're right.

FWIW, I think Essendon is a legit premiership chance next year.

 

[Coaster2012]

So we have one of the worst midfielders and worst defence's? by definition that would make us a bottom team.

Yet we ranked right behind Melbourne and Collingwood for points against and not far behind West Coast for points for.

The trio of Tarrant, Daw and Thompson is as good as anyones backline statstically. Daw was second only to McGovern in 2018 for contested marks in the back half.

This is an old thread, that post was likely a year old, and most people had you tipped for the spoon 12 months ago.

 

[Coaster2012]

we were towelled up without you having Gaff and Nat...

if we do have a better midfield there is a bee's dick in it.

your forward line is beasty!

As much as I would like to say fwd: WC mid: WC Def: WC

I think BF would rip it apart.

Our mids played out of their skins in September, but I think on an average day, Pies would get it done in the middle.

 

[Adz]

If the Pies get Beams it’ll be the best midfield on paper since Lions-01-03.

 

[carnthedons]

If the Pies get Beams it’ll be the best midfield on paper since Lions-01-03.

Yeah, nah.

Cox/Gardiner, Cousins, Judd, Kerr, Fletcher, Embley still better