Once you lose the players, do you ever really get them back?

1970crow

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Pyke and his merry band of incompetents lost the players by blaming them entirely for the GF loss and bringing in the mind ‘experts’ to address their ‘obvious’ weakness. At some point they’ve kissed and made up, but will the players ever believe in the coaches and guernsey again to put it all on the line to the level needed to climb the mountain? There are other issues with the coaching group, lack of ideas, lack of game day nouse, unwillingness to change, rewarding mediocrity, arrogance, inept footy manager, horrendous club culture and probably others. But what we’re seeing on the park is a consistent lack of the kind of effort required across the board to match it with the heavy hitters. And this is a result in the players not playing for the coach and club any more. The drive has gone and only personal pride and talent at each contest is keeping us from being completely s**t. But we’re not a group that is manic about succeeding any more and working our butts off to achieve great things.
 

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moogerfooger

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The answer is - no you don't.

Once players lose faith in a coach or a game plan, it's over. Whether the coach or the board or the players acknowledge it, it's over. It's not coming back, it's not going to get better. The only question now is will the club do it soon or wait until the end of the season?
 

1970crow

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You need another thread?
You unhappy mate? Is it unhappiness with club performance or that mean internet people can express their correct opinions about your perfect club and upset your la la land supportership. Just pipe down and go and start a “let’s look at the positives” thread and you can bash the real supporters in there.
 

mattymac

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The players are the problem. Pyke has done everything possible to pander to their delicate sensibilities.

They were gifted the safest of safe space pre-seasons to help them harvest their belly button fluff and post it on instagram.

All we heard from them was how great Pyke has been letting them be themselves and enjoy their life experience.

Have you been to the home games? Have you seen Walker, Crouch, Lynch and Laird jogging uselessly when they know they aren't in the camera frame?

The players are acting out as overpaid petulant, lazy flogs playing with no pride.

Rumours galore about a split over the captaincy being taken off Walker.

They are a bunch of men with the mental age of 13 year olds.
 

1970crow

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Jun 7, 2011
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The players are the problem. Pyke has done everything possible to pander to their delicate sensibilities.

They were gifted the safest of safe space pre-seasons to help them harvest their belly button fluff and post it on instagram.

All we heard from them was how great Pyke has been letting them be themselves and enjoy their life experience.

Have you been to the home games? Have you seen Walker, Crouch, Lynch and Laird jogging uselessly when they know they aren't in the camera frame?

The players are acting out as overpaid petulant, lazy flogs playing with no pride.

Rumours galore about a split over the captaincy being taken off Walker.

They are a bunch of men with the mental age of 13 year olds.
Sounds like a toxic system from the bottom up. I remember when I had had enough of my piss weak school footy culture. I still went when it was my turn, but the amount of times I worked to be in a place where it was my turn completely evaporated. I still loved my club footy at the time and continued to work my ring out there. But at school, outside of winning contests that I found myself in, I didn’t care whether we won or lost.

I think it’s highly likely that our club’s culture has finally reached the players. You don’t think they know that we’re not ruthlessly chasing success with every ounce of our being. They’re just holding themselves to the standard accepted by the club of their footy dept staff and the standards that our coaches have largely accepted of certain players throughout their own tenure. Why give a s**t when nobody else from your position all the way up to the board does? Screw it, just bank the pay cheque, everybody else is doing it and the club culture supports this. Pyke will go, Campo will interim and a new coach will be installed above Campo and the existing crew.
 

Cap

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You unhappy mate? Is it unhappiness with club performance or that mean internet people can express their correct opinions about your perfect club and upset your la la land supportership. Just pipe down and go and start a “let’s look at the positives” thread and you can bash the real supporters in there.
No, I'm sick of reading the same valueless garbage in every thread plus the new ones made.

We've had some s**t posters over the years but we have a special collection of pathetic ones at the moment.
 

Brown_DOG68

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No, I'm sick of reading the same valueless garbage in every thread plus the new ones made.

We've had some s**t posters over the years but we have a special collection of pathetic ones at the moment.
The thread titles are pretty obvious.
Here's a tip - dont read the ones that might offend you and your stolid defence of all things afc. Then you wont feel the need to post vacant complaints about the thread itself.
 

Samcro24

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It’s very much part of our culture for the players to stop playing and have the coach removed. It’s happened to most if not all the sackings.

This protest might have a dash of Burton in it too.
 

Thegibbsgamble

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Oct 28, 2017
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We've played against 3 premiership coaches and another very good one in a bad administration.

We've been worked out, our ball movement forward. The club acknowladge this during the week. Last night the changes made didn't work.

Give them time.

And then there's the vfl umpires giving the victorian crowd what they wanted, a phuqed club some hope.

But yes, pykes gone at the end of the year if we don't play semi finals.
 

Murray2503

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May 10, 2016
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No you don't. Don lost the players last year. In hindsight it would have been better to replace him at end of last year. Chris Fagan type would be ideal for us. We need a coach to unite the group. The group must be cleaned out first. We also need an experienced football manager in the Balme mould. Blight would be ideal to replace Burton. Campo needs to be terminated along with Hart. Campo especially is a cancer at our club. Would also sack Hass and Reid. Reid is worse than his father and f’ed up our club through its dealings with carlton. We also need a top line match day strategist. Lastly 3 people need to be exited from using our club as their little play thing. Chapman, Riccuito and Fagan.
 
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hey shorty

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You don't, which is why most clubs who change coaches have immediate upturns in performance.

But the attitude of our players leaves a lot to answer for. If I was as bad at my job as they have been for 18 months I'd be in serious trouble.

The question is where to from here ?? We sack Don and we are left with Campo for 4 months, who the players all actually like believe it or not. Maybe not all, but a large slice of them. We get an uplift and we make finals, new coach comes in and Campo stays around..... The vicious cycle continues.
 

Morning_Fog

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Jun 24, 2018
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You don't, which is why most clubs who change coaches have immediate upturns in performance.

But the attitude of our players leaves a lot to answer for. If I was as bad at my job as they have been for 18 months I'd be in serious trouble.

The question is where to from here ?? We sack Don and we are left with Campo for 4 months, who the players all actually like believe it or not. Maybe not all, but a large slice of them. We get an uplift and we make finals, new coach comes in and Campo stays around..... The vicious cycle continues.
I suggest he should go but I know fu** all.

However, if that’s the care is Scott Campoeale the issue?

The players like him. His midfield was relatively successful and operating to an elite level, is he really the problem?
 

OutofTownCrow

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The players are the problem. Pyke has done everything possible to pander to their delicate sensibilities.

They were gifted the safest of safe space pre-seasons to help them harvest their belly button fluff and post it on instagram.

All we heard from them was how great Pyke has been letting them be themselves and enjoy their life experience.

Have you been to the home games? Have you seen Walker, Crouch, Lynch and Laird jogging uselessly when they know they aren't in the camera frame?

The players are acting out as overpaid petulant, lazy flogs playing with no pride.

Rumours galore about a split over the captaincy being taken off Walker.

They are a bunch of men with the mental age of 13 year olds.
Ummm so Pyke is the source of the problem then.

You can't lead with "Pyke has done everything possible to pander to their delicate sensibilities" and then point at the players.

The coach sets the standards, the coach determines the culture ... the players can drive those standards, can embed them ... but the coach is the captain of the ship. Sure the players are not blame free, but look at the players that have left our organisation since Pyke arrived and tell me why they improved their performance AND why our players performances have become an embarrassment?

Look at what Walsh did in a very very short amount of time. What we are seeing here is Pyke's culture. It feels scarily like the Neil Craig pattern and it's not something that will deliver success.

Now that is not to say that the rest of the "nothing to see here" organisation isn't in need of a broom. Fagan is not doing his job. Campo needs to be removed (like a tick). Burton is a joke. How Chapman is still at the helm I don't know.

Some clubs go 50 years without a premiership ... that is a reality of the AFL. We are at 21 years right now, and we still think we are an elite organisation? That is a recipe that could deliver another 21 years of failure.

We are not a good football club under any real criteria you can throw up. With the massive advantage of being the biggest club in a footy-mad two-team state, you only have to look at West Coast to see what we could be ... and we ain't.

Point at 2017 if you like, but all 2017 did was show how we can waste opportunity and advantage through pure stupidity and poor decision making. We are a risk-averse, happy to be in the contest, look at the monthly reports, follow the process, useless middle-ground of a club. We did the same in 2005 and 2006 if you need more examples of how long this culture has endured.

We aren't winning a premiership under this current setup. If that's not enough reason to seek out change then I don't know what is.
 

Redline

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Long term you don't get them back in my opinion but he can for short periods but not enough to have sustained success.

I think that's important point because we have and still will win plenty of games under Pyke where the opposition are rubbish or our players get themselves up for a certain game.

I think he lost them on Grand final day, it wasn't all his fault but that was the day the players no longer thought he could be a premiership coach in my opinion.

I think everyone can see but the clubs needs to also deal with the accountability of the players.
 

SugarShane

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2017 was our 2007. Said it before the GF that since both teams were in a GF drought that whichever team wins will probably start a bit of a roll and the losing team will fade away, as teams that lose their first appearance tend to do.

Granted the loss wasn't as bad as 07 in points, but in terms of emotion it was. We had built towards that for so long and through so much. It was the ultimate release getting to the GF that we thought the job was done and s**t the bed. Getting embarrassed on the main stage could've inspired us but it broke us. And then there's the camp.

Is it the coach losing the players or is it just the players being inherently broken that the culmination didn't happen according to script and not wanting to work hard enough to get back there again?

We've seen this group under multiple coaches. I'm not sure another coach can fix what's wrong with them.
 

hey shorty

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Ummm so Pyke is the source of the problem then.

You can't lead with "Pyke has done everything possible to pander to their delicate sensibilities" and then point at the players.

The coach sets the standards, the coach determines the culture ... the players can drive those standards, can embed them ... but the coach is the captain of the ship. Sure the players are not blame free, but look at the players that have left our organisation since Pyke arrived and tell me why they improved their performance AND why our players performances have become an embarrassment?

Look at what Walsh did in a very very short amount of time. What we are seeing here is Pyke's culture. It feels scarily like the Neil Craig pattern and it's not something that will deliver success.

Now that is not to say that the rest of the "nothing to see here" organisation isn't in need of a broom. Fagan is not doing his job. Campo needs to be removed (like a tick). Burton is a joke. How Chapman is still at the helm I don't know.

Some clubs go 50 years without a premiership ... that is a reality of the AFL. We are at 21 years right now, and we still think we are an elite organisation? That is a recipe that could deliver another 21 years of failure.

We are not a good football club under any real criteria you can throw up. With the massive advantage of being the biggest club in a footy-mad two-team state, you only have to look at West Coast to see what we could be ... and we ain't.

Point at 2017 if you like, but all 2017 did was show how we can waste opportunity and advantage through pure stupidity and poor decision making. We are a risk-averse, happy to be in the contest, look at the monthly reports, follow the process, useless middle-ground of a club. We did the same in 2005 and 2006 if you need more examples of how long this culture has endured.

We aren't winning a premiership under this current setup. If that's not enough reason to seek out change then I don't know what is.
We overrated what Phil actually achieved.
 

Rotayjay

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We've seen it time and again in the AFL. A side reaches a sweet spot in terms of player age profile, injuries, form and game plan, and it reaches a grand final. They lose the grand final. Sometimes they return to redeem themselves, but more often they go off into the wilderness.

I so desperately hoped we'd redeem ourselves last year or even this year but it's over. We essentially need to build again from the ground up, bring in some hungry fresh blood to teach the likes of Fogarty and Milera, try to draft some good hungry young players and start again.

I am actually frightened at how badly the AFC has been damaged now. That status of being contenders has vanished and we are left with a smoking shell and idiot coaches/officials from the Reject Shop and the Neil Craig Museum.

We've got nothing to lose anymore. Trash the lot, start again.
 
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CrowInFiji

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I can't see how it can ever be fluent harmony again. Smile for the cameras, put the right comments out in the media but behind closed doors the whispers would be rampant.

Honestly if we lose to GC at home next week then I genuinely think the players are trying to force the club's hand. How else can you explain the team's half-arsed efforts?

I think the playing group has massive issues, but I think there is something much darker behind all of this. There is a massive mindset issue and I think it all points to the coaches box.

Either the coach doesnt have a gameplan to suit the squad and so he is trying to fit square pegs into round holes (even if the pegs were round in 2017, they arent now) OR the players are subtly refusing to play the gameplan. Either way, it's bye bye coach.

You can blame the mentality or maturity of a playing group all you want but when you reach that kind of stalemate logistics talk and it is easier, cheaper and faster to change a coach than do a rebuild.

Pyke has to go. The hope is it is soon and not at season's end when we have nothing left to salvage.

I would have thought with 2 softish games (if there is such a thing for us) coming up would be ideal for a new coach to take over. Build some momentum into the showdown.

The question remains though - is there a viable replacement? I wonder if the club has been sounding out interest and found little?

Also dropping Gibbs makes me wonder if there is some dislike of him within the playing group. Obviously the boys club don't get dropped regardless of form, but Gibbs does. Interesting. Clearly Pyke knew he could drop Gibbs without a revolt unlike a Jenkins et al.
 

1970crow

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Agreed, we played some of our least accountable football under Phil.
Yep, but Phil was livid after our win at the Gabba and said that he’d be improving the team from the SANFL. He’d been there 10 or so rounds and had had enough. Our current coaching group back slap after every win, regardless of opposition.
 

MRB37

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I suggest he should go but I know **** all.

However, if that’s the care is Scott Campoeale the issue?

The players like him. His midfield was relatively successful and operating to an elite level, is he really the problem?
The issue is Campo's midfield has only operated at an elite level contested wise and by throwing extra numbers through it. We've never had a two way running midfield, or a midfield capable of getting clean ball out from inside to out, it's all hack work. Now with 6-6-6 he can't throw extra men through the contest consistently we're getting caught out again there.
 

Morning_Fog

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The issue is Campo's midfield has only operated at an elite level contested wise and by throwing extra numbers through it. We've never had a two way running midfield, or a midfield capable of getting clean ball out from inside to out, it's all hack work. Now with 6-6-6 he can't throw extra men through the contest consistently we're getting caught out again there.
Then it should be au revoir Scottie
 

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