Ongoing Test match XI speculation thread.

[eddiesmith]

In my opinion there is too much talking down of players who haven't really had a decent go without accepting that there are some in the team already who have constantly under performed are clearly no longer up to it.

We have to make changes and sometimes that means you give guys an opportunity when they are not kicking the door down for selection. The selectors should know who they think can develop into a long term test player. That's the art of selection, not always picking the highest run scorers or wicket taker. They also need to take some responsibility for the lack of succession planning in terms of leadership.

As for Paine, I think it's time for a change and the South African series is a perfect opportunity. If Cummins is the next best option then give him a go. Paine got an opportunity when he didn't deserve it so whose to say Cummins couldn't do it.

Given his influence I think it's about time Langer made some tough calls and stopped accepting mediocrity. He is starting to look like the biggest weakness with this Test team.

I think the lack of Shield Cricket is a cop out personally. No doubt it contributes but there was plenty else that went wrong that had nothing to do with the Shield.

But then you look at Joe Burns. Couldn’t make a run at any level yet they backed him in on his past record and to no one’s surprise outside the selectors, he failed abysmally. Sometimes you do have to consider that someone is in terrible form, completely lacking confidence and they shouldn’t be selected.

 

[Cleavy]

Paine has done a sterling job, but it may be time for change

Australia’s approach, tactics and lack of imagination were exposed by a tremendous Indian effort. Lessons must be learnt.

www.theage.com.au

comedy from Geoff Lawson:
If Paine’s time is up, then the next cab off the rank is staring you in the face from the top of his run-up. The best other captains in Australian cricket are Aaron Finch and Moises Henriques. Neither are in the Test team, although both might be close.

Finch is nowhere to close and although Henriques was drafted into the squad, he's not in the frame either.

 

[eddiesmith]

Not sure what we’ve got between South Africa and the Ashes but you’d want your best team for both series surely.

After the home Ashes surely it won’t be India or England coming the next summer. Ideally it’ll be South Africa/New Zealand and someone else as it’d give us the opportunity to see a few younger guys against both quality and not so quality opposition.

I think after the Ashes Australia’s got a few series on the sub continent so you’ll need a decent keeper and it’s definitely not Carey!

 

[eth-dog]

If Careys keeping is substandard, what’s Paines?

Significantly better, despite the poor test series

Keeps beautifully to Rashid Khan, when most batsmen can't even pick him.

So your statement is ignoring his actual keeping...

The hyperbole here is off the meter. He keeps adequately to Rashid Khan, who bowls four overs. Watch him keep in FC cricket, he regularly drops them when spinners bowl 15+ overs in a day.

Carey was a really good keeper to Rashid, and the bbl commentary mentioned this.

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Commentators going OTT, what a surprise. He's adequate to Rashid, and again, bowls four overs in a match, not the 15+ a spinner bowls in FC cricket

 

[JackOutback]

Paine keeping was poor in the series and hes a terrible tactical captain

Had a poor series, still a better keeper than Carey.

The captaincy issue is a whole other problem.

 

[The hands of stone]

Keeps beautifully to Rashid Khan, when most batsmen can't even pick him.

So your statement is ignoring his actual keeping...

He keeps to him for 4 overs normally on true and consistent tracks in T20 cricket.
Far different on a day 4/5 wearing deck , when you have already kept and batted in the game .
Thats when any flaw in your keeping will come out.

He is a 6/10 keeping wise, not as bad as some think but not great either. His batting would not cover his keeping currently as it is.

I think he is next cab off the rank so hopefully gets another 12 months improvement with the gloves .

 

[ozaddy]

I love how 1 and 2 gamers from India beat us, and everyone is saying, keep wade, keen paine, keep everyone. Something needs to change, at the moment, people like Travis Head and Joe Burns who didn't play in last two tests are most people's fall guys. Can see mediocre future for test team.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Significantly better, despite the poor test series

The hyperbole here is off the meter. He keeps adequately to Rashid Khan, who bowls four overs. Watch him keep in FC cricket, he regularly drops them when spinners bowl 15+ overs in a day.

Commentators going OTT, what a surprise. He's adequate to Rashid, and again, bowls four overs in a match, not the 15+ a spinner bowls in FC cricket

I do watch him... more than you I gather as his keeping as improved out of sight & you are basing it on his keeping when he began.

He doesn't even play much FC cricket these days due to his international commitments.

Doesn't get any trickier than keeping to Rashid!

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

He keeps to him for 4 overs normally on true and consistent tracks in T20 cricket.
Far different on a day 4/5 wearing deck , when you have already kept and batted in the game .
Thats when any flaw in your keeping will come out.

He is a 6/10 keeping wise, not as bad as some think but not great either. His batting would not cover his keeping currently as it is.

I think he is next cab off the rank so hopefully gets another 12 months improvement with the gloves .

There is nothing easy about keeping to Rashid!

Another who severely underestimates Carey's keeping...

 

[eth-dog]

I do watch him... more than you I gather as his keeping as improved out of sight & you are basing it on his keeping when he began.

He doesn't even play much FC cricket these days due to his international commitments.

Doesn't get any trickier than keeping to Rashid!

If the Shield's on, odds on I'm watching it.

I've watched plenty of him and he still struggles up to the stumps, take the SA coloured glasses off. I don't even support Australia in the cricket, so I'm relatively impartial compared to most.

Again, 4 overs of Rashid is easier than 15+ of any FC standard spinner

 

[Gough]

There is nothing easy about keeping to Rashid!

Another who severely underestimates Carey's keeping...

I reckon the best way to pick Rashid is watch his front shoulder, it's noticeably lower for his wrong 'un.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

If the Shield's on, odds on I'm watching it.

I've watched plenty of him and he still struggles up to the stumps, take the SA coloured glasses off. I don't even support Australia in the cricket, so I'm relatively impartial compared to most.

Again, 4 overs of Rashid is easier than 15+ of any FC standard spinner

Feel free to provide evidence of all his poor recent keeping then...

 

[eddiesmith]

Feel free to provide evidence of all his poor recent keeping then...

Didn’t he let byes through in the final over of Renegades loss? Then next game he was doing the same thing.

 

[eddiesmith]

I love how 1 and 2 gamers from India beat us, and everyone is saying, keep wade, keen paine, keep everyone. Something needs to change, at the moment, people like Travis Head and Joe Burns who didn't play in last two tests are most people's fall guys. Can see mediocre future for test team.

Had they dumped Burns before the series they may have had a more settled opening partnership instead of using 3 different combinations in a 4 test series...

 

[Docker82]

The issue with Burns is he was the only one available that was potentially test standard and isn’t past 30.

It would’ve been a miracle if he actually played to his potential but the selectors went for the hope of a miracle over a proven failure at test level.

I’m not going to fault the selectors too much when they were between a rock and a hard place to begin with... We might’ve got ten to fifteen extra runs (total) across four innings from Harris than we got from Burns. Big Deal.

 

[Docker82]

Had they dumped Burns before the series they may have had a more settled opening partnership instead of using 3 different combinations in a 4 test series...

They would’ve been dumping Harris after two tests instead of Burns... wouldn’t have made a difference.

 

[The hands of stone]

There is nothing easy about keeping to Rashid!

Another who severely underestimates Carey's keeping...

Oh yes clearly I did say it was easy ......underestimate no , just realistic on his actual capabilities with the gloves

 

[Redline]

If Careys keeping is substandard, what’s Paines?

Don't get in the way of a good story.

 

[KBLT]

There's some serious redback tinted glasses in this thread.

 

[Heisenberg_]

There's some serious redback tinted glasses in this thread.

It reminds me when Victorians like me were doing the same with Wade, trying to convince everybody his keeping is good because he stood behind the stumps for a dominant fast bowling attack

 

[magpiemaniac44]

For the T20 tour should we look at playing a finisher like Cutting or Coulter-Nile at 7. It’s hard to believe Coulter-Nile was hammering runs and taking a few wickets in the World Cup and he’s seemingly been forgotten about.

Also is Morne Morkel allowed to play internationally for us? If so it might have merit sending him over to give experience to the fast bowlers in SAF to give them details of different conditions or NZ where the bowling attack will be inexperienced.

 

[eth-dog]

For the T20 tour should we look at playing a finisher like Cutting or Coulter-Nile at 7. It’s hard to believe Coulter-Nile was hammering runs and taking a few wickets in the World Cup and he’s seemingly been forgotten about.

Also is Morne Morkel allowed to play internationally for us? If so it might have merit sending him over to give experience to the fast bowlers in SAF to give them details of different conditions or NZ where the bowling attack will be inexperienced.

No, he isn't

 

[Burtonsgottago]

Had a poor series, still a better keeper than Carey.

The captaincy issue is a whole other problem.

He lost the Sydney Test with his keeping on the final day. There’s no upside for him. Time to move on.

 

[Docker82]

No, he isn't

Qualification period is five years isn’t it. He’s just over half way to being eligible and would be 38 by the time he does.

Either way I’m not sure he’d be able to bowl enough overs for test cricket in his mid 30s. That’s if he was even better than one of our test quicks, which at his peak he was - I doubt he is now especially with Pattinson and Richardson in the wings. Doesn’t look like he’s really in the top five or so quicks in the BBL either.

 

[hawkman]

Significantly better, despite the poor test series

The hyperbole here is off the meter. He keeps adequately to Rashid Khan, who bowls four overs. Watch him keep in FC cricket, he regularly drops them when spinners bowl 15+ overs in a day.

Commentators going OTT, what a surprise. He's adequate to Rashid, and again, bowls four overs in a match, not the 15+ a spinner bowls in FC cricket

There are maybe 6 balls that would go through to the keeper in a 4 over spell