Online racial trolling & BigFooty.

[ElectricG]

You mean, too factually accurate for you to contend with.

But hey, draw on your depth of knowledge of Australian history and educate us all - why is 26 January 'an appropriate date' to celebrate 'the birth of a nation'...your words??

Because the modern nation of Australia has a national character borne in its history as a British colony, and the arrival of the first fleet is a day of high significance in that context. That’s it. People who heavily shaped the future of the country arrived and proclaimed ownership of the land for England. Are you seriously arguing that arrival of the first fleet is not significant? Or that it’s not appropriate?

 

[Tim Evans Beard]

One of those dates is already a holiday, the other relates to a single political outcome that relates more to the women’s movement than the birth of a nation.

And the 27th of May? The greatest verifiable agreement the country has had?

 

[Wilbur23]

So that's it? No comment on the issues being discussed, just a cut and paste statement of pride over your own ignorance of them?

Wow!



And yet, here you are with 2 posts that fail to debate the issues or contribute to discussion. Instead you post about ...YOU.

Seems to me that you are actually the one crying for attention.

Happy to oblige.

Why would I post more ? I said I'm not going to give them what they want. Had my say and done. Let the woke attention seekers have fun here. I don't spend each and every day of my life finding what will offend me today. I'll leave that to them. Done.

 

[Tim Evans Beard]

Because the modern nation of Australia has a national character borne in its history as a British colony, and the arrival of the first fleet is a day of high significance in that context. That’s it. People who heavily shaped the future of the country arrived and proclaimed ownership of the land for England. Are you seriously arguing that arrival of the first fleet is not significant? Or that it’s not appropriate?

Im not sure that is true. One of Australia’s greatest historians James Jupp has detailed the make-up of modern Australian through multitudes of migration and changes to resident population.

The text is ‘The Australian People’. Great reference book.

 

[sprockets]

I know that. But then you somehow made it about your post.



So you are telling me that you don’t know that there a gulf in difference between Indigenous Australians life expectancy and literally any other group in this country, just by asking that question.

Is it that hard for you to just answer the damn question? If you don't know the answer just say so.

 

[Festerz]

Because the modern nation of Australia has a national character borne in its history as a British colony, and the arrival of the first fleet is a day of high significance in that context. That’s it. People who heavily shaped the future of the country arrived and proclaimed ownership of the land for England. Are you seriously arguing that arrival of the first fleet is not significant? Or that it’s not appropriate?

The adoption of British legal structures and institutions is indeed an important part of modern Australian history. Particularly in the creation of the country of Australia by joining together the colonies as separate states of a national federation in 1901.

But to suggest that the arrival of a convict transport fleet with the sole purpose of establishing an alternative location for convicts with the loss of the American colonies is something worth celebrating is ludicrous and now widely accepted as such. In fact the only note-able piece of British legislative history that the First Fleet is recognised for is the one Governor Phillip broke, and that is the theft of land on the false convenient assumption of Terra Nullius. An act of illegality exposed by Australia's High Court in successive Land Right judgements following the historic Mabo Case.

No, 26 January, when that convict fleet arrived in the colony of New South Wales, is not appropriate as a celebration of 'Australia Day' by all Australians. It was not recognised as such for almost all of the years since 1788 and it sure as heck is not appropriate now given the cultural make up of our nation in 2021 and the more enlightened understanding of our Indigenous history and culture over 40,000 years.

That would be obvious to anyone with even a passing understanding of Australian history. Or without a racist agenda to peddle.

But, as I said previously a footy forum is not the place to provide that basic education for those with a focus on denying harsh truths.

 

[ElectricG]

The adoption of British legal structures and institutions is indeed an important part of modern Australian history. Particularly in the creation of the country of Australia by joining together the colonies as separate states of a national federation in 1901.

But to suggest that the arrival of a convict transport fleet with the sole purpose of establishing an alternative location for convicts with the loss of the American colonies is something worth celebrating is ludicrous and now widely accepted as such. In fact the only note-able piece of British legislative history that the First Fleet is recognised for is the one Governor Phillip broke, and that is the theft of land on the false convenient assumption of Terra Nullius. An act of illegality exposed by Australia's High Court in successive Land Right judgements following the historic Mabo Case.

No, 26 January is not appropriate as a celebration of 'Australia Day' by all Australians. It was not recognised as such for almost all of the 20th Century and it sure as heck is not appropriate now given the cultural make up of our nation in 2021 and the more enlightened understanding of our Indigenous history and culture over 40,000 years.

That would be obvious to anyone with even a passing understanding of Australian history.

Let me know when you’re done with your edits and I’ll respond.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Because, apart from being an appropriate date, we would be changing it for the wrong reasons: I.e. so people who would normally write of the idea of a national day as “jingoism” get to feel validated and thumb their noses at “commodore driving bogans” who were never actually doing anything wrong.

Why do you keep saying commodore driving bogans, sounds like you dont feel very highly of yourself. Racists come in other forms too.

it is not an appropriate day, it is not the correct day , its a day symbolising the theft of a country by an imperial force at the expense of the land owners.

 

[Slartibartfast]

This is too dumb to even formulate a response to.

I think what you meant to say is your too dumb to formulate a response.

Dont like dealing with historical facts, struggle with the realities of history???

 

[Slartibartfast]

Because the modern nation of Australia has a national character borne in its history as a British colony, and the arrival of the first fleet is a day of high significance in that context. That’s it. People who heavily shaped the future of the country arrived and proclaimed ownership of the land for England. Are you seriously arguing that arrival of the first fleet is not significant? Or that it’s not appropriate?

It’s of high significance as it was the day the displacement of aboriginals commenced.

You keep ignore this

 

[Festerz]

Let me know when you’re done with your edits and I’ll respond

I'm correcting matters of fact not for you but for the record.

Frankly your response, as predictable as I'm sure it will be, is not of interest to me. I've only taken an interest in this thread and your silly posts in particular because you post them as a Port Adelaide supporter and so I feel obliged to correct your rubbish on behalf of a Club that has been very forthright in its promotion of Indigenous heritage and culture.

I think I've said more than enough on that front.

 

[ElectricG]

Why do you keep saying commodore driving bogans, sounds like you dont feel very highly of yourself. Racists come in other forms too.

it is not an appropriate day, it is not the correct day , its a day symbolising the theft of a country by an imperial force at the expense of the land owners.

It was your hawthorn friend who coined the term in this thread, describing people who celebrate Australia Day.

As for your second comment, I’m not responding to it for a fifth time only for it to be ignored by you again.

 

[Boston tiger]

If we changed to the day when everyone could vote. Then the indigenous could talk about some of their heroes but at the moment celebrating on the day when the s**t hit the fan for our oldest occupants is obviously pretty raw. Even if the English were as nice as pie disease still would have killed around 60%( maybe).
A true white Aussie shouldn’t care what day .. as long as it’s a day off.

I guess we can all wait until we become a republic . If that ever happens.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Is it that hard for you to just answer the damn question? If you don't know the answer just say so.

It seems you have failed to recognize that I have answered the question.

Anyone who doesn’t have their head in the sand knows the answer, because the gap in life expectancy is still seen to this day, some 200 years after the English empire arrived.

 

[ElectricG]

It seems you have failed to recognize that I have answered the question.

Anyone who doesn’t have their head in the sand knows the answer, because the gap in life expectancy is still seen to this day, some 200 years after the English empire arrived.

I think he is asking about indigenous life expectancy pre-settlement vs today, not compared with the rest of the population.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I think he is asking about indigenous life expectancy pre-settlement vs today, not compared with the rest of the population.

The fact that there’s still a disparity this far into the English being here suggests that Indigenous Australian life expectancy(as opposed to all non-indigenous Australians) has been impacted by white settlement in a negative way.

 

[sprockets]

It seems you have failed to recognize that I have answered the question.

Anyone who doesn’t have their head in the sand knows the answer, because the gap in life expectancy is still seen to this day, some 200 years after the English empire arrived.

It's ok mate, I've given up trying to get you to answer the actual question, "What was indigenous life expectancy before 'we' came here"?. I doubt it was higher than today, hence the query.

"In 2015–2017, life expectancy at birth for Indigenous Australians was estimated to be 71.6 years for males and 75.6 years for females."

Indigenous health and wellbeing - Australian Institute of Health and Welfare

For Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people, good health is more than the absence of disease or illness; it is a holistic concept that includes physical, social, emotional, cultural and...

www.aihw.gov.au

Maybe someone who actually knows what they're talking about can answer it.

I think he is asking about indigenous life expectancy pre-settlement vs today, not compared with the rest of the population.

Yes that's exactly what I'm asking and SYL knows it but can't or won't answer it, probably because it doesn't support his claims.

 

[sprockets]

The fact that there’s still a disparity this far into the English being here suggests that Indigenous Australian life expectancy(as opposed to all non-indigenous Australians) has been impacted by white settlement in a negative way.

So let's say life expectancy has improved by 10% - you'd say that's not an improvement to life expectancy?

 

[hansie]

If we changed to the day when everyone could vote. Then the indigenous could talk about some of their heroes but at the moment celebrating on the day when the sh*t hit the fan for our oldest occupants is obviously pretty raw. Even if the English were as nice as pie disease still would have killed around 60%( maybe).
A true white Aussie shouldn’t care what day .. as long as it’s a day off.

I guess we can all wait until we become a republic . If that ever happens.

This. We become a republic and the day that kicks in is our national day - for ALL Australians


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

It's ok mate, I've given up trying to get you to answer the actual question, "What was indigenous life expectancy before 'we' came here"?. I doubt it was higher than today, hence the query.

"In 2015–2017, life expectancy at birth for Indigenous Australians was estimated to be 71.6 years for males and 75.6 years for females."

Indigenous health and wellbeing - Australian Institute of Health and Welfare

For Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people, good health is more than the absence of disease or illness; it is a holistic concept that includes physical, social, emotional, cultural and...

www.aihw.gov.au

Maybe someone who actually knows what they're talking about can answer it.


Yes that's exactly what I'm asking and SYL knows it but can't or won't answer it, probably because it doesn't support his claims.

So let's say life expectancy has improved by 10% - you'd say that's not an improvement to life expectancy?

There’s been an improvement of life expectancy across the globe from 1788, you realise?

Yet, in Australia there’s a clear division between indigenous and non-indigenous Australians, still to this day.

But it’s good that you’ve finally admitted that you were actually making the argument that they should be thankful for being colonized.

 

[sprockets]

There’s been an improvement of life expectancy across the globe from 1788, you realise?

Yet, in Australia there’s a clear division between indigenous and non-indigenous Australians, still to this day.

But it’s good that you’ve finally admitted that you were actually making the argument that they should be thankful for being colonized.

So you finally admit their life expectancy has improved at least but you don't know what it was before colonisation. As for the rest of your rubbish, it's getting lumped in with my comment about what's wrong with BigFooty.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

So you finally admit their life expectancy has improved at least but you don't know what it was before colonisation. As for the rest of your rubbish, it's getting lumped in with my comment about what's wrong with BigFooty.

Jesus, every single group on the globe has had their life expectancy increase since 1788.

As expected, that you’re trying to claim that as some sort of moral victory for colonization and displacement says a fair bit about your argument.

 

[sprockets]

Jesus, every single group on the globe has had their life expectancy increase since 1788.

As expected, that you’re trying to claim that as some sort of moral victory for colonization and displacement says a fair bit about your argument.

I simply asked a question but go ahead and make stuff up. Ignored.

PS. There's a reason every single group has had their life expectancy increase in that time.

 

[Holy Rioli]

Jesus, every single group on the globe has had their life expectancy increase since 1788.

As expected, that you’re trying to claim that as some sort of moral victory for colonization and displacement says a fair bit about your argument.

I'm all for everything you say - the day we pick as Australia day is terrible and an insult to our nation's first people etc. My daughter is indigenous as well.

But the life expectancy is a bit of a reach mate. If we didn't settle here, and this land was left untouched, life expectancy would not have changed here and life would have continued on like it did for the previous 60 000 years here.

As a nation though we have a huge responsibility to to improve the quality of life, health and education of all indigenous Australians as the gaps here are just too large and are a disgrace based on what we are capable as a nation. We also need to do better at acknowledging them as our nations first people and to own our previous mistakes, this is the only way we can start to heal.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I'm all for everything you say - the day we pick as Australia day is terrible and an insult to our nation's first people etc. My daughter is indigenous as well.

But the life expectancy is a bit of a reach mate. If we didn't settle here, and this land was left untouched, life expectancy would not have changed here and life would have continued on like it did for the previous 60 000 years here.

As a nation though we have a huge responsibility to to improve the quality of life, health and education of all indigenous Australians as the gaps here are just too large and are a disgrace based on what we are capable as a nation. We also need to do better at acknowledging them as our nations first people and to own our previous mistakes, this is the only way we can start to heal.

I agree with much of what you wrote, but yeah, on life expectancy we just don’t know which way that may have trended if we subsitute English for the Danish for example, so I’d rather not credit the English for any great life expectancy impact, in the face of what they actually did to the indigenous culture along the way.