TheMase
Brownlow Medallist
Are you going to say sorry to ur friend for his great great great great grandfather dying in 1863?
I dont think so.
Opinions Please
- Thread starter KingyOrTheKing
- Start date
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Are you going to say sorry to ur friend for his great great great great grandfather dying in 1863?
I dont think so.
Would you call a black american a "fellow" ??
After all, it's the same thing.
You must also remember that throughout history, the terms "abo" and "fellow" have been used in a derogatory manner the majority of the time.
"Aussie" hardly has the same meaning to us as "abo" does to the aboriginals, or "fellow" to the black americans.
cheers
i dont see how 'american' gets shortened to 'fellow' when i speak of americans they either get called americans or yankies.
well if ppl get offended by being called an 'abo' or a 'fellow' (as you used yourself) then maybe they should set an example and stop calling themselves such things.
what a load of crap, if i were to call an 'aborigine' an abo, then i would mean it as a shortened version, just like when they talk about aussies.
its funny how aborigines are allowed to call themselves abos but if anyone else dares to then its suddenly a problem, well most of them anyway.
and no i wouldnt call a black american a 'fellow' then again i wouldnt call them a black american either, cos im not bothered by peoples skin colour, race etc.
the only problem i have is that they call themselves these names and get p1ssed if anyone else does.
and why should certain races get special rules etc, ohh whoever made the rules must be racist then ay.
well if ppl get offended by being called an 'abo' or a 'fellow' (as you used yourself) then maybe they should set an example and stop calling themselves such things.
what a load of crap, if i were to call an 'aborigine' an abo, then i would mean it as a shortened version, just like when they talk about aussies.
its funny how aborigines are allowed to call themselves abos but if anyone else dares to then its suddenly a problem, well most of them anyway.
and no i wouldnt call a black american a 'fellow' then again i wouldnt call them a black american either, cos im not bothered by peoples skin colour, race etc.
the only problem i have is that they call themselves these names and get p1ssed if anyone else does.
and why should certain races get special rules etc, ohh whoever made the rules must be racist then ay.
if you include daring to call them 'abos' (as a shortened version not as an insult) then no.
but other then that yeah i would, now tell me what pettiness you have conjured up that i could possibly have done.
why do nearly everyones opinions favour them being so 'sensitive', the aboriginies can give as good as they get so dont come that crap with me.
but other then that yeah i would, now tell me what pettiness you have conjured up that i could possibly have done.
why do nearly everyones opinions favour them being so 'sensitive', the aboriginies can give as good as they get so dont come that crap with me.
200 years ago!!!! This was happening until the 1960,s It was happening for 200 years NOT 200 years ago.
As for Aussie YOU said us and them Can't they be Aboriginal and an Aussie?????
The only time I heard the term"Abo" used is when describing a negative.
And why Describe them as Aboriginal friends? I thought you didn't like that or are they the right % of Aboriginal for you?
here is the rub then evade....
you would apologize if you did something wrong....
well most people accept that the "state" or the "Commonwealth of Australia" or "the Crown" has done things which are wrong. In some cases terribly wrong by any standards and in other cases with good intention but causing immense harm.
So I want John Howard to apologize, on behalf of the Commenwealth of Australia for the wrongs committed in it's name.
I do not want him to apologize on behalf of himself, or to apologize on behalf of me (if I have done something personally then I do not need little Johnny stepping in for me).
In my discussions with aboriginies this is what they want too. They do not want Howard to apologize for you....they want him to apologize on behalf of the state.....for acts committed by the state which caused harm.
So, logically then, if you would be happy to apologize if you had done something wrong, then you would be happy for Howard to apologize on behalf of the Commonwealth for wrongs caused by them.
qed
Satay Mat
you would apologize if you did something wrong....
well most people accept that the "state" or the "Commonwealth of Australia" or "the Crown" has done things which are wrong. In some cases terribly wrong by any standards and in other cases with good intention but causing immense harm.
So I want John Howard to apologize, on behalf of the Commenwealth of Australia for the wrongs committed in it's name.
I do not want him to apologize on behalf of himself, or to apologize on behalf of me (if I have done something personally then I do not need little Johnny stepping in for me).
In my discussions with aboriginies this is what they want too. They do not want Howard to apologize for you....they want him to apologize on behalf of the state.....for acts committed by the state which caused harm.
So, logically then, if you would be happy to apologize if you had done something wrong, then you would be happy for Howard to apologize on behalf of the Commonwealth for wrongs caused by them.
qed
Satay Mat
well they are suddenly aboriginal when theyre on their way to centerlink arent they now.
yeah im sure it was happening for 200 years, since US CRIMINALS have only been here for 200
like i care what percentage of aboriginalness they are. i think the rule used to be that if you were 1/16th aboriginal you were able to get aboriginal benefits, even though most of them are white anyway. and you cant tell me that at least those ones are discriminated against bcos they are aboriginal when they look like the average australian, so why should they get benefits?
what about females huh? they were discriminated against until just recently, maybe they deserve a sorry too??
why should i say sorry for ppls actions 200 years ago, in those days it was perfectly alright to do basically whatever you wanted to, providing you were white and male. i dont agree with any of that crap but im not saying sorry for it either.
yeah im sure it was happening for 200 years, since US CRIMINALS have only been here for 200
like i care what percentage of aboriginalness they are. i think the rule used to be that if you were 1/16th aboriginal you were able to get aboriginal benefits, even though most of them are white anyway. and you cant tell me that at least those ones are discriminated against bcos they are aboriginal when they look like the average australian, so why should they get benefits?
what about females huh? they were discriminated against until just recently, maybe they deserve a sorry too??
why should i say sorry for ppls actions 200 years ago, in those days it was perfectly alright to do basically whatever you wanted to, providing you were white and male. i dont agree with any of that crap but im not saying sorry for it either.
well then satay mat if thats gonna happen then wheres my apology from england for sending my ancestors over here?
i didnt ask to be born here and have all u getting started on me cos i have a different opinion to you, good for me if i dont want 2 say sorry.
yeah the crown has done something wrong, send all these white ppl over here. i bet most of the killings of aborigines were by the 'authority'.
oh hang on, it was US, i can really see them handing out rifles to convicts, thats when most of the killing happened, at the start.
THEREFORE i think if anyone is gonna apologise it should be the crown, after all theyre in charge, they allowed this.
and the crown can apologise for all the ppl who killed, not for ME.
i didnt ask to be born here and have all u getting started on me cos i have a different opinion to you, good for me if i dont want 2 say sorry.
yeah the crown has done something wrong, send all these white ppl over here. i bet most of the killings of aborigines were by the 'authority'.
oh hang on, it was US, i can really see them handing out rifles to convicts, thats when most of the killing happened, at the start.
THEREFORE i think if anyone is gonna apologise it should be the crown, after all theyre in charge, they allowed this.
and the crown can apologise for all the ppl who killed, not for ME.
If you were to call your aboriginal friends abos, then i'm sure they wouldn't mind as they would know you're not meaning it to be derogatory.
But to call others who you DON'T know "abos" would probably get you into a fight, and rightly so.
It's all to do with the history of their treatment, and the use of the terms.
What do you suppose the black american slaves were called by their "masters" ?
fellows.
Same with aboriginals. They were called "abos" by most white australians.
I can call my black friends "fellows" and they know i mean nothing by it. But if some knobhead off the street walked up to them and called them "fellows", then they'd probably beat the shhit out of him, depending on how the term was used.
I can say "G'day cockksucker" to my mates, but if i say that to somebody i don't know, then i'd expect to get a nasty reaction.
It's got nothing to do with simply being an abreviation. "fellow" is just as offensive as "mother ****ker" depending on who it's directed at.
And besides, you say "im not bothered by peoples skin colour, race" yet you're getting upset that you can't call an aboriginal an "abo".
I thought it didn't matter to you?
How about if you were aboriginal and someone on the street called you an "abo" - what would you do?
I find it hard to believe that you'd smile and not take offence.
cheers
you dont get extras at centerlink but there is no prequisite other then being aboriginal.
they are allowed to eat any animal they want, even though they probably catch things like turtles in motorised boats. its fair enough that they can eat such animals as b4 their way of life was changed they had a great way of conserving resources. but now that a lot of these animals are endangered if they want to eat them then they should have to catch them in the traditional way.
also if you dare not to feel compassionate towards them you are called a racist.
oh yeah and about the percentage thing, i dont care, it just annoys me that white ppl whos great great great great great great grandmother was aboriginal, yet every other person in the family tree is a white australian, but they say theyre aboriginal when their white australianness far outweighs any aboriginal tie.
they are allowed to eat any animal they want, even though they probably catch things like turtles in motorised boats. its fair enough that they can eat such animals as b4 their way of life was changed they had a great way of conserving resources. but now that a lot of these animals are endangered if they want to eat them then they should have to catch them in the traditional way.
also if you dare not to feel compassionate towards them you are called a racist.
oh yeah and about the percentage thing, i dont care, it just annoys me that white ppl whos great great great great great great grandmother was aboriginal, yet every other person in the family tree is a white australian, but they say theyre aboriginal when their white australianness far outweighs any aboriginal tie.
then I am glad we agree then....because no-one is suggesting that you should apologize. Little Johnny should apologize on behalf of the crown, the state, the Commonwealth of Australia....whatever he is not apologizing on behalf of you or me.
So, given that I take it that this has your full support.
NO_ONE is asking you to apologize.....IT IS NOT ABOUT YOU.
If.....you can prove that your ancestors were wronged....then you could go your hardest to get an apology from whoever you want....go for your life.
Satay Mat
TheMase
Brownlow Medallist
Got a question.
Since Australia didn't form a formal government until 1901. Does that mean the government only says sorry for the last 100 years.
Because the Commonwealth government was formed in 1901, right?
yeah i was gonna say that!
and who says sorry for the other hundred, the hundred when the worst happened huh? england?
also no one answered my question that someone should be saying sorry to females about the way they were treated, up until about 5 years ago. maybe they should get some sort of special concession too. like there being some sort of FEstudy or something??
and who says sorry for the other hundred, the hundred when the worst happened huh? england?
also no one answered my question that someone should be saying sorry to females about the way they were treated, up until about 5 years ago. maybe they should get some sort of special concession too. like there being some sort of FEstudy or something??
I am not an expert on constitutional law....however this is how I see it:
"The Crown" has existed in Australia since 1788. 'The Crown" is not the Queen.....it is the term used for the entity which is in effect the Government (in the broad sense of the word, not political party). ie Crown land is land owned by the entity called Australia....it can sell it, lease it....do what it likes with it. I think that all rights attributable to "The Crown" in each of the colonies were given up to the Commonwealth as part of Federation. Johnny therefore could apologize on behalf of the Crown going back to 1788.....so could the Queen or the GG as our head of state.
The Commonwealth of Australia only came into existance in 1901 so if he apologized on behalf of that entity then yes....only form 1901 onwards. This is good enough for me as each of the state governments have already apologized and that would include the time spent as individual colonies.....so all of history would be covered.
Either way is fine.
Of course the British government could apologize as well.....however most of these decisions were not made in England....they were made in the colonies and later Australia by locals. In fact by the time all of the colonies were formed (mid 1800's) the attitude of the British authorities was one fo disgust in the way the aboriginies were treated by the settlers.
Hope this helps
Satay Mat
"The Crown" has existed in Australia since 1788. 'The Crown" is not the Queen.....it is the term used for the entity which is in effect the Government (in the broad sense of the word, not political party). ie Crown land is land owned by the entity called Australia....it can sell it, lease it....do what it likes with it. I think that all rights attributable to "The Crown" in each of the colonies were given up to the Commonwealth as part of Federation. Johnny therefore could apologize on behalf of the Crown going back to 1788.....so could the Queen or the GG as our head of state.
The Commonwealth of Australia only came into existance in 1901 so if he apologized on behalf of that entity then yes....only form 1901 onwards. This is good enough for me as each of the state governments have already apologized and that would include the time spent as individual colonies.....so all of history would be covered.
Either way is fine.
Of course the British government could apologize as well.....however most of these decisions were not made in England....they were made in the colonies and later Australia by locals. In fact by the time all of the colonies were formed (mid 1800's) the attitude of the British authorities was one fo disgust in the way the aboriginies were treated by the settlers.
Hope this helps
Satay Mat
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Yes, because England were such martyrs to the cause of race relations as shown by their super duper getting along in places like Rhodesia.
can't argue with that Porthos....
my point was more that the treatment of Aboriginies in Australia was not dished out from London....decisions were made right here by successive colonial, state and federal governments.
Blaming England is a cop out IMHO
I am not saying the British were angels, however, on a whole, probably better than the Dutch, Portugal and Spain
Satay Mat
my point was more that the treatment of Aboriginies in Australia was not dished out from London....decisions were made right here by successive colonial, state and federal governments.
Blaming England is a cop out IMHO
I am not saying the British were angels, however, on a whole, probably better than the Dutch, Portugal and Spain
Satay Mat
And we're still part of the Commonwealth because of our English heritage.......our constitution and the Commonwealth of Australia was all drafted by them (The Crown) so by saying sorry in our federal parliament will cover from when Captain Cook landed.......not from when federation commenced.....
I'm still awaiting one of the legal eagles to back up their statements that compensation claims would come flying in if the federal parliament says sorry........
as for those taking advantage of having a small percentage of aboriginality in them........you can't blame that on aboriginals in general.........that comes from one of our great white traits......GREED......
which is why a lot of the funding money given to assist them doesn't get near where it should........the number of companies that rip off various aboriginal organisations and communities is astounding - many Alice Springs businesses thrive on it for one example - many others available......
I'm still awaiting one of the legal eagles to back up their statements that compensation claims would come flying in if the federal parliament says sorry........
as for those taking advantage of having a small percentage of aboriginality in them........you can't blame that on aboriginals in general.........that comes from one of our great white traits......GREED......
which is why a lot of the funding money given to assist them doesn't get near where it should........the number of companies that rip off various aboriginal organisations and communities is astounding - many Alice Springs businesses thrive on it for one example - many others available......
Santos L Helper
Cancelled
And what fantasy world is this that you live in where everyone is equal?
To answer another of your bigoted queries.......I have documented research that shows that convicts, when released, were only too eager to take up arms against the Aboriginals to procure and secure land.
You have stated opinions, so far, now let's see some facts.
is that why we have an 'equal opportunitys' board?? just for nothing huh??? yeah whatever.
when you fill out forms for certain jobs, like special ones they have for local communitys, there are things you have to have/ or not have to be eligble.
eg, you have to be unemployed for 6 months, OR be aboriginal. so if they had a job yesterday they would be more eligible then someone who had one 5 months ago.
you reckon theyre not getting a fair go these days? bullsh1t they arent, everyone is so scared that if they dont give the aboriginal the job they will be called racist...
well u can call a bigot or whatever, just cos i DARE to have a different opinion to all you who are so wrapped up in the aboriginies getting a fair go that you cant even see that they are.
and does anyone know what percentage of aborigines actually look aboriginal these days?? i dont, but im guessing more of them are white than black, as you can see from nearly every 'aboriginal' performance that is done, a lot of them are fat and white, just like us, i doubt they are discriminated against just cos they have some aboriginal blood in them from about 5 generations ago.
when you fill out forms for certain jobs, like special ones they have for local communitys, there are things you have to have/ or not have to be eligble.
eg, you have to be unemployed for 6 months, OR be aboriginal. so if they had a job yesterday they would be more eligible then someone who had one 5 months ago.
you reckon theyre not getting a fair go these days? bullsh1t they arent, everyone is so scared that if they dont give the aboriginal the job they will be called racist...
well u can call a bigot or whatever, just cos i DARE to have a different opinion to all you who are so wrapped up in the aboriginies getting a fair go that you cant even see that they are.
and does anyone know what percentage of aborigines actually look aboriginal these days?? i dont, but im guessing more of them are white than black, as you can see from nearly every 'aboriginal' performance that is done, a lot of them are fat and white, just like us, i doubt they are discriminated against just cos they have some aboriginal blood in them from about 5 generations ago.
