Oppo Camp Opposition Team Discussion

[DontArgue4]

Sad thing was...from what I saw he actually was. Hawthorn were actually not great at all. Or it just mattered more to Norf.

Really? I thought he was gash

 

[joelsyt]

Really? I thought he was gash

I only saw bits and pieces of the second half. Maybe I only saw the bits where he actually did something.

 

[ReaperX]

This, the thing that has to change is when we have the foot on the throat we need to drive it home instead of losing momentum and letting the opposition back into the contest.

This is so true, even during our very good years in 2013, the second half of 2014, and 2015, we would so often get out to a 40-50 point lead against a side early in the 3rd quarter, and then rather than go on and win by 80 or 90, just coast the rest of the way and win by about 30-50 in the end.

That ruthlessness is what ultimately edges you ahead in close finals I think, and is partly why we failed between 2013-2015 come finals time. It certainly wasn't our talent level, because we could match it with the very best in those years, but we just didn't have as much of an edge about us.

That day we smacked Collingwood late in the season in 2015 made me think that we potentially had dealt with this, but it wasn't to be.

And in that 2013 final, we were up 75-42 at one point in the 3rd quarter, but rather than put our foot down, we went into our shells and played safe, and that's how Carlton, an inferior side quality wise, were able to get us.

 

[prodigy]

Hahaha did they just say ty was one of the Hawks best today? Wowee

He was. Played well.


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[ReaperX]

He was. Played well.


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Only by default imho, the Hawks were pretty average today. Played well is overstating it, he wasn't awful, but he wasn't great either. It was about a standard Ty performance from when he was with us.

Aside from a Hawks burst early in the 2nd quarter, North dominated the match.

 

[prodigy]

Only by default imho, the Hawks were pretty average today. Played well is overstating it, he wasn't awful, but he wasn't great either. It was about a standard Ty performance from when he was with us.

Aside from a Hawks burst early in the 2nd quarter, North dominated the match.

Yeah it's pre-season. Result isn't of number one importance. Still doesn't detract from the fact he had a good game. We can't be that one eyed and actually ignore when one of our ex players actually plays well. Give credit, where credit is due.


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[Ciderhound]

Jeez Begley is looking good.

 

[Phar Ace]

Yes, he's a gun. But he does bring a risk. Lake didn't though, as far as I can remember. Didn't he just change clubs?

Season from hell 2011 finishing with knee surgery. 2012 was McCartney's first season as Coach and word is there was problems in 2012 part injury part attitude. Hawks swooped end of 2012. They got him on the park regularly and the premierships are history.

 

[prodigy]

Brodie back to back goals. Impressive kid.


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[joelsyt]

Season from hell 2011 finishing with knee surgery. 2012 was McCartney's first season as Coach and word is there was problems in 2012 part injury part attitude. Hawks swooped end of 2012. They got him on the park regularly and the premierships are history.

Looking like McCartney had issues with a few players at Western Bulldogs. Beverage takes over and two years later they win the premiership.

 

[Hoos]

Season from hell 2011 finishing with knee surgery. 2012 was McCartney's first season as Coach and word is there was problems in 2012 part injury part attitude. Hawks swooped end of 2012. They got him on the park regularly and the premierships are history.

True, but he wasn't as big a risk as O'Meara. Just a smart recruiting decision.

I thought the original comment was referring to Vickery...and Hawthorn getting players and improving them.That's why I mentioned Lake and Burgoyne already being guns when they arrived. As opposed to TV.

 

[Rumballs]

Really? I thought he was gash

Gash is undeniably great

 

[Phar Ace]

Looking like McCartney had issues with a few players at Western Bulldogs. Beverage takes over and two years later they win the premiership.

Yep, betting McCartney would be doing some introspection. Very different coaches. You could treat players more alike once, now you need broader people skills.

 

[ReaperX]

Yeah it's pre-season. Result isn't of number one importance. Still doesn't detract from the fact he had a good game. We can't be that one eyed and actually ignore when one of our ex players actually plays well. Give credit, where credit is due.


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My problem with it, is that if he played that exact same game, but it was for the Tigers, people (mainly the media) would be saying it's the same old Vickery, and that he had to be better if he wanted to have a good year.

But because he's at Hawthorn, they say he's one of their best on the day, which again that might be true, but Vickery played way better games for us during his career and got two thirds of SFA "credit where credit's due" from the media, and I suspect that this was largely due to the guernsey he was wearing, which is sad.

It's a ridiculous and quite frankly insulting double-standard.

 

[prodigy]

My problem with it, is that if he played that exact same game, but it was for the Tigers, people (mainly the media) would be saying it's the same old Vickery, and that he had to be better if he wanted to have a good year.

But because he's at Hawthorn, they say he's one of their best, which again that might be true, but Vickery played better games for us during his career and got SFA "credit where credit's due" from the media.

It's a ridiculous and quite frankly insulting double-standard.

I doubt they would. Look at his stats line for the game.
17 disposals (9 contested), 6 marks, 3 tackles, 5 hitouts, 2 goals from 82% time on ground with no clangers.
That's a good game for any team.


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[Tiger_4_Life]

Good game from Vickery no doubts there.... He could never back it up over weeks with us maybe he will now.

Cant remember the last time if ever he had 17 possessions.

 

[Phar Ace]

I thought the original comment was referring to Vickery...and Hawthorn getting players and improving them.That's why I mentioned Lake and Burgoyne already being guns when they arrived. As opposed to TV.

Nope, better go back and re-read, comment was about O'Meara

 

[Rumballs]

My problem with it, is that if he played that exact same game, but it was for the Tigers, people (mainly the media) would be saying it's the same old Vickery, and that he had to be better if he wanted to have a good year.

But because he's at Hawthorn, they say he's one of their best on the day, which again that might be true, but Vickery played way better games for us during his career and got two thirds of SFA "credit where credit's due" from the media, and I suspect that this was largely due to the guernsey he was wearing, which is sad.

It's a ridiculous and quite frankly insulting double-standard.

I haven't watched the game or heard the commentary but the Hawks don't need him to do as much as we did. Besides Jack, our forward line has been crap for years. We needed Ty to stand up and be a viable option that kicked goals and at least halved contests. The Hawks don't need that. They have numerous goal kicking options that are better than him. He could be their fifth best forward and be doing an adequate job. We needed him to be a strong second forward.

 

[joelsyt]

Good game from Vickery no doubts there.... He could never back it up over weeks with us maybe he will now.

Cant remember the last time if ever he had 17 possessions.

Collingwood 2015??? I miss that Vickery!

 

[DrMike]

Ty has always been more than capable of contributing

 

[ReaperX]

I haven't watched the game or heard the commentary but the Hawks don't need him to do as much as we did. Besides Jack, our forward line has been crap for years. We needed Ty to stand up and be a viable option that kicked goals and at least halved contests. The Hawks don't need that. They have numerous goal kicking options that are better than him. He could be their fifth best forward and be doing an adequate job. We needed him to be a strong second forward.

That's not the point though, the point is there's a double standard in regards to what his performances look like in and of themselves, based on the team he's playing for.

According to the stats, Vickery's game today probably was above his average output at Richmond, I'll concede that point, however last week he was being praised as well, and in that game he had 10 disposals and kicked no goals.

I don't care if Vickery is further down the order at Hawthorn, if you don't judge his performances equally at both teams, it's a double standard plain and simple.

 

[Phar Ace]

I don't care if Vickery is further down the order at Hawthorn, if you don't judge his performances equally at both teams, it's a double standard plain and simple.

Not if you know his team requirements are different. Plenty of players have been required to be a lead-up decoy one week for example and executed perfectly, then the next week be the go-to target.

 

[ReaperX]

Not if you know his team requirements are different. Plenty of players have been required to be a lead-up decoy one week for example and executed perfectly, then the next week be the go-to target.

His team requirements at Hawthorn are not very different from Richmond though mate, he's the 2nd tall forward/2nd ruck at the Hawks so far, and he played a pretty similar role with us. The difference is the perception he has in the media, now that he plays for the media's darlings in Hawthorn.

We haven't seen how the media treats him in the regular season yet, but I reckon I've got a prediction for you - REGARDLESS of his individual performances, he'll get MUCH more praise because he's playing for a team that covers for some of his weaknesses a bit better than we previously did, and my opinion is that this praise will not actually be deserved if it's given to Vickery directly, it should be directed at the Hawthorn team as a whole for covering his weakness.

Vickery's performances, in and of themselves, will not be any better for Hawthorn than they were for Richmond, the difference will be the way he's perceived, because he's now playing for a club that has had recent success, whereas at Richmond he was perceived by the media as our great hope next to Riewoldt, playing for a club that has not had recent success.

The perception is what shits me, because he's now going to get a free pass for playing s**t, simply because he's playing for a different club. Do you understand what I'm saying, and why I find that frustrating?

I believe that the media having different perceptions of a player in this way is a DOUBLE STANDARD.

 

[Hoos]

Nope, better go back and re-read, comment was about O'Meara

Yeah, I realised that after your last post. That's why I said I thought it was about Vickery. My mistake.

If I get a chance later I'll go back and re-read it. For now, I'll just take your word for it. All cool.

 

[Nostradumbass]

$100 Vickery gets in a punch on when we play them.