OT - Ashes

[RooDog]

He was a great captain, up there with the best. Unfortunately the same qualities that made him a good captain, the biggest ego in the cricket world, have made him a whinging whining commentator who thinks it's all still about him.

i actually quite enjoy his commentary... he does have an ego yer... but ******** he knows what hes talking about... and not often he is wrong... just knows exactly what he is talking about...

 

[Mad Dog]

I think AB's abilities as a captain get confused with his heroics with the bat.

He single-handedly dragged Australian cricket back to the top mainly off his own bat initially - then eventually a patient ACB stuck with youngsters like Booney, Billy the Kid, The Swervemeister, O'Donnell, Jones, and Steve Waugh.

As a tactical captain he isn't on the same page as Chappelli, Taylor, and Steve Waugh......but began winning games through his own talents and with a team slowly building around him

 

[CrowMagnum]

i actually quite enjoy his commentary... he does have an ego yer... but ******** he knows what hes talking about... and not often he is wrong... just knows exactly what he is talking about...

I agree the content is good. Its just the delivery that grates. A bit less of the superior preaching style and a touch of humility occasionally would go a long way in making it enjoyable to listen to. I feel like I'm back at school being told off. The teachers were usually right but it still wasn't much fun.

 

[macca23]

I think AB's abilities as a captain get confused with his heroics with the bat.

He single-handedly dragged Australian cricket back to the top mainly off his own bat initially - then eventually a patient ACB stuck with youngsters like Booney, Billy the Kid, The Swervemeister, O'Donnell, Jones, and Steve Waugh.

As a tactical captain he isn't on the same page as Chappelli, Taylor, and Steve Waugh......but began winning games through his own talents and with a team slowly building around him

Correct.

Much as Ian Chappell is an arrogant so and so who turns everything into a story about how good he was, he actually was good. An attacking never say die captain who always went for the win, and passed that belief on to his men.

Tubby Taylor was a very astute captain who tactically was as good as there has been, while Steve Waugh had steely resolve who wanted to grind his opposition into the ground - after making sure they couldn't win first.

AB was simply a gutsy individual who led his team by example until others eventually followed. But he certainly was not an imaginative, attacking or astute captain, and not in the same league as the above 3.

 

[Blues_Man]

Correct.

Much as Ian Chappell is an arrogant so and so who turns everything into a story about how good he was, he actually was good. An attacking never say die captain who always went for the win, and passed that belief on to his men.

Tubby Taylor was a very astute captain who tactically was as good as there has been, while Steve Waugh had steely resolve who wanted to grind his opposition into the ground - after making sure they couldn't win first.

AB was simply a gutsy individual who led his team by example until others eventually followed. But he certainly was not an imaginative, attacking or astute captain, and not in the same league as the above 3.

disagree ...Chappell was a foul mouthed arrogant prick.....Border was not only a better player he was a much better captain and individual .

 

[portentous]

I think I Chappell is one of the best captains Australian cricket has ever had. He was tactically a master. AB wasn't in his league IMO (nor was Kim Hughes!)

I don't mind Chappelli's commentary as he at least says what he thinks and doesn't suck up to anyone. (guess he's too busy sucking up to himself!) I remember him getting the flick for dropping the F-bomb once!

Dean Jones is cast from the same cloth as Chappell, but I don't mind his commentary either. He at least says what he thinks even if it is politically incorrect and/or racist (which I don't condone)

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

I think AB's abilities as a captain get confused with his heroics with the bat.

He single-handedly dragged Australian cricket back to the top mainly off his own bat initially - then eventually a patient ACB stuck with youngsters like Booney, Billy the Kid, The Swervemeister, O'Donnell, Jones, and Steve Waugh.

As a tactical captain he isn't on the same page as Chappelli, Taylor, and Steve Waugh......but began winning games through his own talents and with a team slowly building around him

How good of a captain would Chappell have been without the likes of Lillee, Marsh, G Chappell, Thompson, Walters etc available to him? Without them, would he have been as attacking? AB didn't have nowhere near the same quality but he still managed to lift Australian cricket ( as you say almost single-handly ) out of the doldrums.

 

[macca23]

disagree ...Chappell was a foul mouthed arrogant p,rick.....Border was not only a better player he was a much better captain and individual .

We're in total agreement on his personal qualities as you'll see below from part of one of my previous posts.

Ian Chappell is an absolute pain in the arse.

He talks on TV and radio as if he is still captaining a side, even to the point where he makes comments like 'when I'm asking my bowlers to do this and that etc etc" in the present tense, rather than in the past. It always reverts to being about him.

I worked with Ian at one stage in his life, and he was a foul mouthed opiniated so and so - nothing's changed.

Yes Border was a far better individual - far better!!

But begrudgingly IMO Chappell was the better captain and leader of men.

 

[Mad Dog]

disagree ...Chappell was a foul mouthed arrogant prick.....Border was not only a better player he was a much better captain and individual .

I agree with this - but it doesn't preclude anyone from being an effective captain.

That's like saying Warney is a toss so he's a crap bowler.....

Shane Warne is a whole bunch of things that I'm not going to list here.......but they don't detract from his performance and standing as a champion leg-spinner.

 

[birdmanptr]

disagree ...Chappell was a foul mouthed arrogant prick.....Border was not only a better player he was a much better captain and individual .

Growing up in a street called young street right behind glenelg footy ground also home to glenelg cricket club nets in the middle 70's being in grade 5 or 6 at glenelg primary school i used to watch ian and greg train and then dad would take me the grade game where ever it was.

Being about the only kid at training and games on saturdays bot of them used to speak to dad and i and they were great.He may have been different on the field but of it to me any way he was great.

Watched him play for weeks on end leading up to xmas one year for not many runs then whilst on holidays at victor he played for glenelg in between australia duties got the mail and there it was front page 214 for glenelg

 

[CrowMagnum]

How good of a captain would Chappell have been without the likes of Lillee, Marsh, G Chappell, Thompson, Walters etc available to him? Without them, would he have been as attacking? AB didn't have nowhere near the same quality but he still managed to lift Australian cricket ( as you say almost single-handly ) out of the doldrums.

Fair point, it's a lot easier to be a captain or coach of a team of champions than strugglers. Ian was a lot better than Greg Chappell though with a similar squad so I think he did have the goods.

Alan Border is probably best remembered as a good captain for the times, a bit like Gerald Ford is being thought of right now.

 

[Jerome]

How good of a captain would Chappell have been without the likes of Lillee, Marsh, G Chappell, Thompson, Walters etc available to him? Without them, would he have been as attacking? AB didn't have nowhere near the same quality but he still managed to lift Australian cricket ( as you say almost single-handly ) out of the doldrums.

If you haven't seen it, check out the ABC's Cricket in the 80's.
http://shop.abc.net.au/browse/product.asp?productid=729396

It does a brilliant job of recalling exactly what Border did off the field to turn Australian cricket into the force it is now.

It was great hear about the origin of Captain Grumpy and Border's tactics to restore some hard, tough standards to Aussie cricket and take the poms by surprise.

 

[noddy]

If you haven't seen it, check out the ABC's Cricket in the 80's.
http://shop.abc.net.au/browse/product.asp?productid=729396

It does a brilliant job of recalling exactly what Border did off the field to turn Australian cricket into the force it is now.

It was great hear about the origin of Captain Grumpy and Border's tactics to restore some hard, tough standards to Aussie cricket and take the poms by surprise.

I agree in that AB was the right man for the right time & pulled Australian cricket back to the top.

But as for captains on field I Chappell had no peer with only (in my opinion) C Lloyd coming close

He could bat pretty good as a number 3, could roll his arm over when needed & he wasn't bad as a slip fielder, a leader of men who took no crap from anyone even from Sir Donald.

As far as Australian captains go well over the 40 odd years that i have been a cricket follower M Taylor would come second followed by S Waugh but jeez they sure had the fire power to back them up & were the benefactors of A Borders legacy.

As far as England captains go well M Brealey & R Illingworth would be the pick of the bunch.

 

[portentous]

Who will be England's next skipper noddy? Surely Flintoff won't keep the job. Will Vaughan get the captaincy back?

 

[noddy]

Who will be England's next skipper noddy? Surely Flintoff won't keep the job. Will Vaughan get the captaincy back?

Can't see Freddy keeping the job & if Michael Vaughan is not fit then A Strauss should get the job.

Looking forward to 2009

 

[macca23]

As far as England captains go well M Brealey & R Illingworth would be the pick of the bunch.

Totally agree nodster.

Both had backbones of steel, although Brearley looked like a tin soldier when he batted and off memory only had a batting average in the 20's.

But he was a great marshaller of the troops, and definitely one of the most astute captains that England ever had.

Ray Illlingworth was a gritty, determined uncomprising bastard and expected his team to play the same way.

As for the current situation with England, it would be a mistake to re-appoint Vaughan as skipper unless he can prove that he is 100% fit.

The appointment of Flintoff as skipper was stupid - in the same mould as the appointment of Botham - by taking a free spirit that is the star all-rounder and overload the poor bugger until he fails.

Strauss would be my man. Bats high in the order (opener), has no bowling to concentrate on, and fields close to the bat (slips).

 

[Blues_Man]

As far as England captains go well M Brealey & R Illingworth would be the pick of the bunch.

Brearley was one of Englands great captains ..pity he was a complete hack as a player .



IMO Border moulded the invincible team that Waugh Taylor inherited....and led from the front while doing so ...he was one of the very few batsmen in the world who succeeded against the most potent fast bowling attack in world cricket ...the windies ...he took many a painful hit on the body and gritted it out to save his team . I remember him making a hundred in England with a broken bone in his hand ...the man was a rock .

while Ian Chappell was a little before my time of following cricket...reports from past players and commentators have reinforced my view that he was a tosser on and off the field .

 

[Toots Hibbert]

Brearley was one of Englands great captains ..pity he was a complete hack as a player .



IMO Border moulded the invincible team that Waugh Taylor inherited....and led from the front while doing so ...he was one of the very few batsmen in the world who succeeded against the most potent fast bowling attack in world cricket ...the windies ...he took many a painful hit on the body and gritted it out to save his team . I remember him making a hundred in England with a broken bone in his hand ...the man was a rock .

while Ian Chappell was a little before my time of following cricket...reports from past players and commentators have reinforced my view that he was a tosser on and off the field .

I'd be interested if you would post the past players and commentators who influenced your opinion of Chappelli.

If you were to watch the ABC doco Cricket in the Seventies (and I can't believe you have) you'd understand a lot more about what made Chappelli tick. He was skipper at a time when the players were treated like the servants of administrators and he was prepared to stand up for his team. He moulded a team that had terrific fighting spirit and he was very shrewd with his tactics.

 

[Blues_Man]

I'd be interested if you would post the past players and commentators who influenced your opinion of Chappelli.

If you were to watch the ABC doco Cricket in the Seventies (and I can't believe you have) you'd understand a lot more about what made Chappelli tick. He was skipper at a time when the players were treated like the servants of administrators and he was prepared to stand up for his team. He moulded a team that had terrific fighting spirit and he was very shrewd with his tactics.

Yep he was a great ambassador in getting better payment for the players ...which in turn benefited him .
and yes he may have been a good tactician.

David Boon , Kerry O'keefe are just a couple who have told me storys which gave me an insight into the blokes personality .

I realise this is a SA board and so a lot would not like to hear anything bad about one of your favourite sons ...but bias never changes other peoples opinions .

 

[Mad Dog]

Yep he was a great ambassador in getting better payment for the players ...which in turn benefited him .
and yes he may have been a good tactician.

David Boon , Kerry O'keefe are just a couple who have told me storys which gave me an insight into the blokes personality .

I realise this is a SA board and so a lot would not like to hear anything bad about one of your favourite sons ...but bias never changes other peoples opinions .

you are still missing the point !

Whether he is South Australian, Victorian, West Australian, or Cherokee Indian......Ian Chappell was the best captain we've had for 40 years.

Yes he is a loud mouth knob who's methods were as much a product of the era and his own arrogant dissposition.........but the question is not who is the nicest guy to play Test cricket for Australia.......it was a query over captaincy.....

don't insult us by inferring that this is a parochial exercise.....we know and understand what Ian Chappell is thank you very much....most of us have just chosen to focus on the substance of the question........try it sometime.....

 

[birdmanptr]

you are still missing the point !

Whether he is South Australian, Victorian, West Australian, or Cherokee Indian......Ian Chappell was the best captain we've had for 40 years.

Yes he is a loud mouth knob who's methods were as much a product of the era and his own arrogant dissposition.........but the question is not who is the nicest guy to play Test cricket for Australia.......it was a query over captaincy.....

don't insult us by inferring that this is a parochial exercise.....we know and understand what Ian Chappell is thank you very much....most of us have just chosen to focus on the substance of the question........try it sometime.....

Well said

When Ian was captain the compotition was more even lets be honest S.Waugh and now Ponting has a side which is excellent and opostion which is under par and at times even i could captain the side

This should spark debate [ unless its already been done ]

Ians side Vs the Aussie side of the last 10 years?
This is roughly what that side was and we all should know the Aussie side last 10 years

IR Redpath
WJ Edwards
I Chappell
GS Chappell
R Edwards
KD Walters
+RW Marsh
TJ Jenner
Lillee
MHN Walker
JR Thomson
A.Mallett

 

[Toots Hibbert]

Stacks up very well against our current side IMO. Don't think that side would have had two spinners though. Handy pace battery.

 

[Crow-mo]

Alan Border is the best Australian captain of the past 30 years.

that's a joke, right?

 

[Alex99]

As some know, I am not a cricket fan and basically only watch it because there is bugger all on TV some days.

How do you know if a captain is good or not? (Serious question)

At the moment Ricky Ponting is the world’s best batter but allegedly he would be in the bottom 3 or 4 captains in the world. How can you tell if he is a good captain or not; Australia went 10 for 10 in 2006 so you can not judge him on winning and losing.

How could you tell that Ian Chappell was a better captain over his own bother Greg Chappell, Allan Border or Steven Waugh or even Ricky Ponting?

 

[RoosterLad]

field placings, when to use/take off your bowlers, whether to bat/bowl first are a few things