OT: Terry Wallace

[Crow-mo]

As I see it, Terry Wallet is close on being a tactical genius, but a strategic ignoramus.

When it comes to gameday tactics, he's one of the very best. If you want an example of his tactical nous, just look at what he did to us when we played them last year.

However, when it comes to taking the broader picture in mind - recruiting for the future needs of the club, he's terrible. At the draft table he's midfielder happy, seemingly refusing to draft talls - leaving his team(s) structurally deficient as a result.

When he took over Richmond 2 1/2 years ago, they were in a dire condition. So too were Hawthorn. The two of them played off late in the season for the Deledio Cup. Both clubs were full of hacks, with their only decent players being all aged 28+.

At the end of that season though, the two clubs went in very different directions.

Hawthorn went for a complete cleanout. They decided to start with a completely clean slate, trading or delisting every player who they decided would not be able to help them win a premiership. They retained just a small number of senior players, enough to support their youngsters while leaving plenty of positions available for them at selection each week. Since that time, Hawthorn have improved every year and now appear to be on the verge of a successful period as they reap what they sewed back in 2004 & 2005.

Richmond on the other hand tried to have their cake and eat it too. Yes, they drafted some quality youngsters in Deledio and Tambling (who was highly rated at the time, no matter how badly he has subsequently turned out), but they also took on a relatively large number of retreads (eg Mark Graham and Troy Simmonds). They tried to draft for the longer term future, while trading to improve their short-medium term future. They failed.

The decision to draft in re-treads saw their fortunes rise in 2005 & 2006, with them finishing above the Hawks in both years. However, it was a false dawn - mirroring Carlton's rise in 2004 and subsequent fall back to wooden spoondom in 2005 & 2006.

Now they find themselves in an even deeper predicament than the one in which they started. They do have a small handful of genuinely talented kids, but their senior players are all now either gone or very close to it and there is nothing but hacks in between. At least they may have had some trade-bait to offer back in 2004, now they have nothing left. They will have to rebuild the slow and hard way.

Is this all Terry Wallet's fault?

To answer that question, you would need to know the internal workings of the Richmond Football Club and in particular how much influence he has had on their recruiting over the past three years.

Well argued. But I actually don't agree.

I think you've confused two issues:

the strategic as you call it, is not necessarily something that should fall to him. That is the club's problem for not having a properly functioning organisational structure with properly designated responsibilities.

Coaches come and go, and a player can have a 15 year career. the expected duration and incubation time are completely mismatched.
The coaches time horizons are necessarily shorter than that of the recruiting department. the recruiters must be able to take a longer term view of potential than the matchday coaching group.

If Wallace is shaping the strategic direction of richmond football club, then more fool Richmond.

 

[Crow-mo]

Neil Craig was the only choice to coach our players.

I always wanted Craigy as our Coach, but he's obviously exceeded almost all of our expectations.

you sure you're not making this up after the event?

what was it about craigy that had you so convinced at the time?

 

[King Elvis]

what about all the guys playing at 60 - 70% fitness like Burton and co. ???
the concerning thing is the amount of soft tissue injuries.

it happened towards the end of last year he trained the team into the ground and look at the outcome!
we limped into the finals and played the most important game of the year with 3 of our most key players underdone badly

It's an issue which compounds itself.

We have players who aren't fully fit, but are unable to be rested because we don't have anyone fitter. So the semi-fit players play, and they get worse because they can't take time to get right.

Last year in the finals we missed Roo, Hentschel and McLeod. You can't blame Craig for either of the first two, and the Macca thing was partly poor planning and partly bad luck.

Crow-Mo - I couldn't see a better alternative. Wallace was a no way; Eade was a maybe. Mark Harvey or Garry O'Donnell would have been my preference if they didn't go Craig - I didn't want us to get on the roundabout of coaches who've already had a big ooportunity at another club.

I still believe that most Adelaide supporters want an Adelaide Coach. Craig's background in the SANFL is a massive tick. His sports science background is another massive tick. Serving a long tenure as an assistant under people like Blight (and even Ayres) is a big factor. The obvious respect and relationship he shares with the playing group is a big bonus. The fact that almost every rumour indicated that he was offered the WCE Job, but turned it down on the back of discussions here with our playing group - showed that he wasn't just chasing the top job, but that he had loyalty and passion for our Club.

Really, apart from that, I couldn't see any reason *not* to choose Craig.

 

[tribey]

you sure you're not making this up after the event?

what was it about craigy that had you so convinced at the time?

It's funny isn't it.

Ever since that thread was bumped there's been a helluva lot of people doing the "LOL n00bZ!!11 i was always Vote #1 Craigy" thing.

There wasn't even a Craig bandwagon in 2004, let alone enough members to fill a Firle phonebooth.

 

[Crow-mo]

Crow-Mo - I couldn't see a better alternative. Wallace was a no way; Eade was a maybe. Mark Harvey or Garry O'Donnell would have been my preference if they didn't go Craig - I didn't want us to get on the roundabout of coaches who've already had a big ooportunity at another club.

1. he was part of the rot, from an outsiders perspective there was little to recommend him.
2. Wallace was a no way? were you not familiar with his record
3. Eade - see above
4. Harvey or O'donnell? you knew as little as them as you (and us) knew about craigy at the time.

 

[King Elvis]

1. he was part of the rot, from an outsiders perspective there was little to recommend him.
2. Wallace was a no way? were you not familiar with his record
3. Eade - see above
4. Harvey or O'donnell? you knew as little as them as you (and us) knew about craigy at the time.

Don't disagree with any of those points - but as you can see by my 3 choices, I'd rather we took a punt on someone new and fresh than try a coach whose been around the block. Eade/Wallace might be ok, but they aren't a Matthews or a Malthouse - I'd rather have a gamble.

 

[Stiffy_18]

It's funny isn't it.

Ever since that thread was bumped there's been a helluva lot of people doing the "LOL n00bZ!!11 i was always Vote #1 Craigy" thing.

There wasn't even a Craig bandwagon in 2004, let alone enough members to fill a Firle phonebooth.

I also recall talkback radio going nuts with people not wanting Craig full stop. Sure there was an odd one out for Craig but majority of posters here and callers to talkback radio at the time were very much against appointing Craig.

Nowdays, everyone wanted him as their first choice

 

[tribey]

Don't disagree with any of those points - but as you can see by my 3 choices, I'd rather we took a punt on someone new and fresh than try a coach whose been around the block. Eade/Wallace might be ok, but they aren't a Matthews or a Malthouse - I'd rather have a gamble.

Craig was new and fresh?

He'd been at the club in some capacity since the Blight-era and was an assistant under Ayres.

Also, you mentioned his SANFL record before - his record was inferior to that of Peter Rohde.

When the records of the three candidates were compared Craig wasn't even in the ballpark - hence the uproar when he was appointed.

It's pure revisionism to say any different.

 

[bus24]

With Craig, I did want him to be appointed. However, I wasn't convinced until he had finished his spell as caretaker. IIRC he broke even in the games he coached.

Can't say I was too keen on him after that loss in Brisbane though.

 

[King Elvis]

I also recall talkback radio going nuts with people not wanting Craig full stop. Sure there was an odd one out for Craig but majority of posters here and callers to talkback radio at the time were very much against appointing Craig.

Nowdays, everyone wanted him as their first choice

I wasn't around here at the time, and I have nothing to gain from lying about it.

Dyer - I was more referring to his playing record in the SANFL; I think that's something a lot of Crows fans look upon and like. You say Eade/Wallace had vastly superior records - neither of them one a flag, and I didn't like the way Wallace left the Bulldogs. As I said, Eade would have been my choice out of recycled coaches, but I was quite happy for the Crows to take a stab at someone like Craig or Harvey.

 

[Stiffy_18]

With Craig, I did want him to be appointed. However, I wasn't convinced until he had finished his spell as caretaker. IIRC he broke even in the games he coached.

Can't say I was too keen on him after that loss in Brisbane though.

4-5 including a massacre at the GABBA (a club record) and then following that up by not kicking a goal in the first half of football the following week. Nothing special there

 

[Stiffy_18]

I wasn't around here at the time, and I have nothing to gain from lying about it.

Dyer - I was more referring to his playing record in the SANFL; I think that's something a lot of Crows fans look upon and like. You say Eade/Wallace had vastly superior records - neither of them one a flag, and I didn't like the way Wallace left the Bulldogs. As I said, Eade would have been my choice out of recycled coaches, but I was quite happy for the Crows to take a stab at someone like Craig or Harvey.

Maybe I should have made myself more clear, I am not having a go here at you personally but there has been an awful number of people lately, saying that Craig was their man. For us that have been on here and followed the scenario closely, that just seems a bit too odd.

 

[tribey]

Dyer - I was more referring to his playing record in the SANFL; I think that's something a lot of Crows fans look upon and like.

Drawing a long bow there - especially considering Wallace and Eade were accomplished multiple Premiership players from the Yabby Jeans coaching conveyor belt.

You say Eade/Wallace had vastly superior records - neither of them one a flag, and I didn't like the way Wallace left the Bulldogs.

You're right, but both took rubbish clubs from obscurity to near Premiership glory against the odds.

Plough took the Dogs from 15th to within a kick of the Grand Final in his first full year - Eade won the Minor Premiership in his first year and was only stopped by a rampant Carey/Archer/Stevens at the G.

Beats the crap out of coaching Norwood to 3rd, 4th, 5th etc in the early 90s.

As I said, Eade would have been my choice out of recycled coaches, but I was quite happy for the Crows to take a stab at someone like Craig or Harvey.

Fair enough.

As I said previously though, this general sentiment we're seeing - "oh Craig was always my choice" - seems way too convenient when you look at what we knew at the time when the decision had to be made.

But I'll be honest, if I had access to everyone else's crystal ball (minor premiership, back to back prelims) Craigy would've been my first choice too.

 

[bus24]

But I'll be honest, if I had access to everyone else's crystal ball (minor premiership, back to back prelims) Craigy would've been my first choice too.

It's not to late to go back and edit the 'I'm off to Alberton' post is it?

 

[tribey]

It's not to late to go back and edit the 'I'm off to Alberton' post is it?

As I said, I had my tongue firmly in cheek when I posted that - but if anything, that shows the extent of the feeling at the time.

Incidentally, this poll after Wallace was appointed coach of Richmond summed up the quantitative thoughts and feelings across the board:

CRAIG OR EADE: THE FINAL POLL.

77 to 22 in favour of Rocket - and you just know the bulk of the 22 were eager Port fans with crossed fingers (Yep, I voted twice LAWL)

 

[Damp Squarie]

I also recall talkback radio going nuts with people not wanting Craig full stop. Sure there was an odd one out for Craig but majority of posters here and callers to talkback radio at the time were very much against appointing Craig.

Nowdays, everyone wanted him as their first choice

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2189921&postcount=31;)

 

[jenny61_99]

Maybe I should have made myself more clear, I am not having a go here at you personally but there has been an awful number of people lately, saying that Craig was their man. For us that have been on here and followed the scenario closely, that just seems a bit too odd.

I wasnt around here then either Stiffy - and as I said, I preferred Craig to WHF anyday. Would have been just as happy with Eade (he was actually my first choice by a slim margin). Hubby on the other hand was like many of you - wanted WHF or Eade and couldn't understand the Club's choice with Craig. Didn't take long to turn him round though!

My reasoning for wanting Craig had to do with the fact that he'd been here under Malcolm and was largely responsible for the training that had us primed for September in 97 and 98. In those years we could come from behind and run the game out strongly. Something has changed these days because we seem to limp to the finish line.

Having had breakfast with the man 3 times and hearing his responses to some fairly probing questions, I have great respect for him. He also goes out of his way (as someone said above) to thank the people. He feels that WE are the main reason they are so successful - he knows how to make us feel special! He never forgets a name or what it is you do. That is a really special gift he has and is why he gets so much out of his players IMO.

 

[lacrow]

Not to rehash old ground... BUT

While I would never trade Craig for Wallace now, given what I have seen of the man, calling into question Wallace's coaching abilities is absolutely ludicrous.

Some of you may remember me making the comments back during the coaching search, but it bears repeating that the Bulldogs team that Wallace took to consecutive Prelims was not a great side at all. He got a hell of a lot out of a side of mediocre players (with a few exceptions) and on top of that, he did it in an environment where the club itself was bankrupt and falling apart. All in all, I'd say he did an exceptional job and has a lot to offer as a head coach.

 

[Crowked]

Wow, you really know nothing about the Richmond FC and its circumstances of the last 7 or 8 years. Stick to talking about the Crows.

So tell me about it. What isnt correct about what I wrote?

Everyone seems to think they have a good group of youngsters, obtianed by high draft picks. Why would that clasify as pretty good upside?

I personally expected much more from Richmond since Wallet took over. Perhaps you the supporters should too. Or maybe your happy with the way it is.

The sadest thing for you is apparently Wallet has a 5 year deal for a million a year. Looks like you stuck with him and very average performance for quite a while.

 

[NikkiNoo]

It's funny isn't it.

Ever since that thread was bumped there's been a helluva lot of people doing the "LOL n00bZ!!11 i was always Vote #1 Craigy" thing.

There wasn't even a Craig bandwagon in 2004, let alone enough members to fill a Firle phonebooth.

Hey I was fairly positive about Craig, but at the time my main preference was for either Eade or Craig and definetely not Wallace! I can't find the earlier posts though that I talked about my personal observations of him with his daughters at sporting events. Found this one though after the appointment - http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2914259&highlight=Craig#post2914259. I know that I was like most of the people on here at the time very angry at the perceived lack of appointment process but prior and after the appointment I was alot more positive about Craig's abilities than most others on here and I did resist doing the "I told you so" after the appointment.

But I did find some other interesting discussions at the time - particularly this thread - http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=149921Sounds fairly familiar?

 

[macca23]

Craig was new and fresh?

He'd been at the club in some capacity since the Blight-era and was an assistant under Ayres.

Also, you mentioned his SANFL record before - his record was inferior to that of Peter Rohde.

When the records of the three candidates were compared Craig wasn't even in the ballpark - hence the uproar when he was appointed.

It's pure revisionism to say any different.

I was in the same camp as DT at the time - one of the most vocal against Craig being appointed for several reasons, these being lack of process, Craig being a part of the previous regime, preference for an experienced coach at AFL level etc etc .

I've been proven wrong, and not ashamed to admit it. We all are at some stage or other.

I'm glad I was wrong, and can state unequivocably that Craigy has my 100% support and has had from the time of his appointment, in spite of my previous beliefs.

However, like DT, I'm surprised by the number of history re-writers that we appear to have amongst us. All of a sudden it seems all but a handful wanted Craig at the time apart from DT, myself and a couple of other odd loons who obviously have no appreciation of how easy it is to play "spot the right coach".