Our 2007 Draft Performance...

[Eagle Ant]

OK time to bring a little sense into this convo.

Ebert and Scooter are coming along fine.

Notte was always going to be a 5 year prospect, but the kid has real ability and is a smart forward unfortunatly his body doesnt reflect his brain, give him another 2 years and he will SHOCK everyone.

Masten- He is the real dissapointment out of this draft, He hasnt shown the same ability that he did when he was playing U18's but then he was playing against kids, He was a fully developed kid like Danny Rich was when he was drafted, but against men who are bigger and Faster the him he has struggled and playing him off the HFF means he isn't getting tagged and he is still getting game time at the top level. I dont think he will be a premium midfielder, Nor would I have him in the side ahead of Shuey and Kerr as our attacking mids.
He is quickly falling behind the group coming though and if he doesn't have a big 2011 I wouldn't expect him to be on our list in 2012. He could very well end up like Dane swan and be a late bloomer, but he needs to start showing it soon, He has definate ability Im not doubting that but he needs to start showing it.
If you were to pick your best 22 having all players playing their natural positions Masten wouldn't make the Cut IMHO. He is trying to be moulded and become more versitile but he hasnt come along as well as what everyone had hoped.

For me if I was picking that best 22 in their actual positions this is what it would look like.

FB- Waters, Glass, Smith
HB- Hurn, Schofield, Sheppard
C- Houlihan, Shuey, Embley
HF- Ebert, Kennedy, Strijk
FF- LeCras, Wilson, Hams
RR- Cox, Kerr, A.Selwood
Int- Naitanui, S.Selwood, M.Priddis, M.Rosa

Emg- Swift, Masten, Brown.
E.Mac is a FB and not better then Glass.
Brown is not bettter then Schofield.
Masten, Swift, Stevens, are not better then any of Kerr, Shuey, Priddis and the Selwoods.
The Selwoods are in their as Taggers and they are bother better then McGinnity.

So where do you put Masten??

 

[PRANKSTER666]

You make me laugh EA, always manage to turn a thread into an opportunity to post your best 22...

 

[Patron]

OK time to bring a little sense into this convo.

Ebert and Scooter are coming along fine.

Notte was always going to be a 5 year prospect, but the kid has real ability and is a smart forward unfortunatly his body doesnt reflect his brain, give him another 2 years and he will SHOCK everyone.

Masten- He is the real dissapointment out of this draft, He hasnt shown the same ability that he did when he was playing U18's but then he was playing against kids, He was a fully developed kid like Danny Rich was when he was drafted, but against men who are bigger and Faster the him he has struggled and playing him off the HFF means he isn't getting tagged and he is still getting game time at the top level. I dont think he will be a premium midfielder, Nor would I have him in the side ahead of Shuey and Kerr as our attacking mids.
He is quickly falling behind the group coming though and if he doesn't have a big 2011 I wouldn't expect him to be on our list in 2012. He could very well end up like Dane swan and be a late bloomer, but he needs to start showing it soon, He has definate ability Im not doubting that but he needs to start showing it.
If you were to pick your best 22 having all players playing their natural positions Masten wouldn't make the Cut IMHO. He is trying to be moulded and become more versitile but he hasnt come along as well as what everyone had hoped.

For me if I was picking that best 22 in their actual positions this is what it would look like.

FB- Waters, Glass, Smith
HB- Hurn, Schofield, Sheppard
C- Houlihan, Shuey, Embley
HF- Ebert, Kennedy, Strijk
FF- LeCras, Wilson, Hams
RR- Cox, Kerr, A.Selwood
Int- Naitanui, S.Selwood, M.Priddis, M.Rosa

Emg- Swift, Masten, Brown.
E.Mac is a FB and not better then Glass.
Brown is not bettter then Schofield.
Masten, Swift, Stevens, are not better then any of Kerr, Shuey, Priddis and the Selwoods.
The Selwoods are in their as Taggers and they are bother better then McGinnity.

So where do you put Masten??

Hmm agree with a fair bit of this. i think that probably is our best 22 except that mackenzie would definitely be CHB over schofield who is more of a third tall anyway. Schofield might take smiths possie in the back pocket but then we would be too tall. Masten could take rosas spot on the bench and play as a winger with his gut running. Also a chance at gettin rid of A Selwood on ball. Other than that i too dont see him in the best fully fit 22.
Also dont know where butler would play? Maybe smiths back pocket.

 

[paran]

Dude, no way Masten was phyically mature in 07 - hell, Rich looked more mature than him - he was skinny, but super-fit from an endurance perspective. He also got his hands on the ball first and got it out to Rich, Palmer, Morton, etc. Of course, he had NicNat as his ruckman, so that helped. In hindsight, if we'd picked Rioli it would have been a completely different story, but there's always a bit of a stigma about drafting Div2 (NSW, NT, Tas) prospects high.

 

[adagio]

Dude, no way Masten was phyically mature in 07 - hell, Rich looked more mature than him - he was skinny, but super-fit from an endurance perspective. He also got his hands on the ball first and got it out to Rich, Palmer, Morton, etc. Of course, he had NicNat as his ruckman, so that helped. In hindsight, if we'd picked Rioli it would have been a completely different story, but there's always a bit of a stigma about drafting Div2 (NSW, NT, Tas) prospects high.

 

[dajesmac]

Dude, no way Masten was phyically mature in 07 - hell, Rich looked more mature than him - he was skinny, but super-fit from an endurance perspective. He also got his hands on the ball first and got it out to Rich, Palmer, Morton, etc. Of course, he had NicNat as his ruckman, so that helped. In hindsight, if we'd picked Rioli it would have been a completely different story, but there's always a bit of a stigma about drafting Div2 (NSW, NT, Tas) prospects high.

This. He was a skinny lad and still hasn't physically peaked yet.

 

[Wirra for PM]

Re Ebert, one issue is that even in the three years since drafting him the game has got much faster, I think it's much harder for players of average pace - either in terms of acceleration or top speed - to make a contribution and not become a liability the other way.

Endurance and work rate, which Ebert has in spades, aren't as valuable as they once were.

 

[Marlin01]

OK time to bring a little sense into this convo.

Masten- if he doesn't have a big 2011 I wouldn't expect him to be on our list in 2012.

Given he's contracted until the end of 2013, I'd suggest your expectations will not be met.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Endurance and work rate, which Ebert has in spades, aren't as valuable as they once were.

Not so sure about that.

Dane Swan isn't exactly quick - but grinds his opponent into the dirt.

Guys like Bartel, Hayes, Chapman, Mitchell aren't quick - yet they are all top line midfielders.

What those guys have of course is decent skills. However simply having speedsters isn't the panacea.

 

[Wirra for PM]

Not so sure about that.

Dane Swan isn't exactly quick - but grinds his opponent into the dirt.

Guys like Bartel, Hayes, Chapman, Mitchell aren't quick - yet they are all top line midfielders.

What those guys have of course is decent skills. However simply having speedsters isn't the panacea.

Funny you mention Swan, I was just thinking Ebert resembles him in a number of respects - strange run, dodgy kick, top work rate. Difference is Swan is much quicker, bloke has top notch acceleration.

Agree speed is just one element in the mix, as you say if a player can dominate in other respects then they can still contribute. But my point is that it has become a more important element of the game in recent years, so arguably if you were drafting in 07 knowing how things would develop you might give some extra weight to pace.

 

[sTeeL]

Ebert I just don't know. I have a gut feeling eventually he or Stevens will be traded due to our list being clogged with inside extractors, but I hope it's him because Stevens has him covered in most areas.

In no area of the game does Stevens currently cover Ebert.... Thats just crazy talk. Maybe sticking tackles and thats about the only part I can see.

Stevens will most likely have a minimal bit part next year so those who expect to see him out and about will most likely be disappointed...

 

[kane249]

In no area of the game does Stevens currently cover Ebert.... Thats just crazy talk. Maybe sticking tackles and thats about the only part I can see.

Stevens will most likely have a minimal bit part next year so those who expect to see him out and about will most likely be disappointed...

Currently
Stevens kicking >>>> Daylight >>>>> Ebert's kicking
Stevens decision making >>>>> Daylight >>>>> Ebert's decision making

 

[worsfold]

A good preseason for stevens and he might surprise next year
put him and shuey in for 15 - 20 games along with kerr should definately lift the midfield next year

 

[TurleyBurley]

Gotta say, the criticism of Ebert on here has been pretty off the chart. Yes, his footskills and decision making have been iffy. But countless players (Swift, Priddis, Masten, Waters) have all been dubious by foot this year.

What I like about the guy is that he works. He's an honest trier. Maybe he'll never be too much more than that, but I think it'll come. He wins a fair wack of his own ball, and though he turns a bit of that over, it feels like he's going to improve. Say what you want about the guy, but he's no downhill skier, and we've got no shortage of those right now.

 

[Geoffe_Miles]

Not so sure about that.

Dane Swan isn't exactly quick - but grinds his opponent into the dirt.

Guys like Bartel, Hayes, Chapman, Mitchell aren't quick - yet they are all top line midfielders.

What those guys have of course is decent skills. However simply having speedsters isn't the panacea.

You can find exceptions to every rule. It doesn't make the rule necessarily invalid.

One thing is for sure - if you are crap in some area, be it disposal, pace, endurance, defensive capabilities, size and strength, ball winning ability/ability to read play etc, then you have to be oustanding in some other way to compensate for it. You have to bring something else to the table to be able to say "O.K, i can't contribute in this way but i can contribute in these other areas".

You can't be crap in some areas and just average in others and expect to cut it as an AFL player. Ebert lacking in speed and/or disposal is not necessarily the death knell for him. But he has to be oustanding in some other capacity to compensate for it and the problem is that he doesn't. He can't kick and is slow and has nothing else to bring to the table. He is one of those players who is seriously crap in some areas and only average in others. How is he going to make a contribution to the team? What does he bring to the table? What role is he going to play? Just being a nice bloke with high work rate isn't enough. You have to be able to play a role and hurt the opposition.

 

[paran]

Ebert is a very good mark for his size, and gets a lot of shots for goal. I see him as a midfielder capable of playing HFF and rotating into the centre as required. He's only 20, and he can improve his strength, speed and endurance, and t.his should lead to him being more balanced and focused when kicking --> better disposal.

How fast was Michael Voss? Nathan Buckley? Greg Williams? Tony Evans? When Ebert physically matures he'll be a pretty bl00dy good player.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

You can find exceptions to every rule. It doesn't make the rule necessarily invalid.

One thing is for sure - if you are crap in some area, be it disposal, pace, endurance, defensive capabilities, size and strength, ball winning ability/ability to read play etc, then you have to be oustanding in some other way to compensate for it. You have to bring something else to the table to be able to say "O.K, i can't contribute in this way but i can contribute in these other areas".

You can't be crap in some areas and just average in others and expect to cut it as an AFL player. Ebert lacking in speed and/or disposal is not necessarily the death knell for him. But he has to be oustanding in some other capacity to compensate for it and the problem is that he doesn't. He can't kick and is slow and has nothing else to bring to the table. He is one of those players who is seriously crap in some areas and only average in others. How is he going to make a contribution to the team? What does he bring to the table? What role is he going to play? Just being a nice bloke with high work rate isn't enough. You have to be able to play a role and hurt the opposition.

I don't disagree with any of that - just the previous poster's assertion that he can't be a good footballer if he isn't quick.

However as it stands Ebert's pace and footskills are well below par - and if they don't improve then the only place for him would be playing as a tagger, defensive forward or in the WAFL.

However - being a good bloke as you put it at 20 is an admirable trait. If he works hard - there's no reason his ability in those areas can't be improved.

Hell - Kirk had little going for him other than workrate. Yet has carved out a very successful career.

 

[fryzie]

I asked him whether WC had made a strategy mid way through the year when a PP was on the offering as to whom they would have selected with picks 2 and 4. After being a little coy he admitted that such a list existed and said that Scully was always going 1, and that WC would probably have taken Martin at #2, knowing Melb would go with Trengrove leaving morabito at #4. As to pick 18 he said that it depended on who was available, but Fyfe and Bastinac headed their suggested list at that point.

Nothing against Sheppard who I think will be a very good player, but Martin, Morabito and Fyfe would be very nice indeed.

See guys, winning isn't everything...

 

[adagio]

I found this post rather interesting:

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=606661

Coincidentally enough, it game at about the one time in Masten's career that he was fully fit and not carrying an injury.

 

[Wirra for PM]

I don't disagree with any of that - just the previous poster's assertion that he can't be a good footballer if he isn't quick.

Just to set the record straight, I said lack of pace was an issue for Ebert, and that the direction the game has gone in meant it is becoming more of an issue.

In no way did I suggest that it was the only relevant factor or that it meant he couldn't be a good footballer.

 

[Patron]

I found this post rather interesting:

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=606661

Coincidentally enough, it game at about the one time in Masten's career that he was fully fit and not carrying an injury.

I remember that. It was sweet when masten was the best pick in the 07 draft rather than the worst. He better get over his injuries and start racking up huge ball again.

 

[Slipper]

Interesting you people make all the comments about players, have any of you played any sort of sport, or do you just sit at a computer and make judgements on people, if you are so good why aren't you on the recruiting team?

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

Interesting you people make all the comments about players, have any of you played any sort of sport, or do you just sit at a computer and make judgements on people, if you are so good why aren't you on the recruiting team?

I *am* on the recruiting team.

OK not really. But expressing your opinion, good or bad, is what online discussion forums are all about

 

[Patron]

Interesting you people make all the comments about players, have any of you played any sort of sport, or do you just sit at a computer and make judgements on people, if you are so good why aren't you on the recruiting team?

This is BF everybody lives on it because they are obsessed with sport and footy. So much so that they just cant stop thinking,talking and breathing it. Thats why i am at work right now typing away on BF because footy is my life. Most of us have other jobs or study. Thats why we aint on the recruiting team.
Everyones entitled to have opinions on players.
Unfortunetely we arnt entitled to have, or should i say express opinions on posters. If we could i'd be "expressing" some opinions on you right now.

 

[sTeeL]

Ebert - knows how to get the ball, is a good mark, can run all day, works hard week in and week out.

Any guy with Ebert's dedication will get to be a better kick. Half the time you guys lump decision making with poor disposal.... There is nothing wrong with his decision making. Doesnt handball to stationary targets. Or to opponents. Just because he muffs up a kick, doesn't mean he has bad decision making.

And to kane, doubt Stevens got a kick that hit the target that wasnt from a free kick and without pressure. So no your wrong in both those categories. Stevens didnt even get enough of the ball in his very few games to even know whether he has good decision making.