List Mgmt. Our 202x -vs- 2017 Lists

[GrommoT]

I think the current group is finals bound in a few years. But still doesn't have enough talent to push it into being a contender.

Players like Shoenberg, Thilthorpe, McHenry, Fogarty, Cook, Berry, Pedlar, Jones and Sholl will keep me eagerly watching for the next few years. But we still need more elite talent. I have my fingers and toes crossed for this draft.

I was thinking how we look like shaping up comparing our current youth (and those likely to still be there when we're challenging again) with our senior squad from 2017.

Crystal ball gazing forward and using gut feel on how our youth might develop, I reckon we've got enough talent to already cover the 2017 squad. Hopefully we can nail a few more draft picks or trade in some talent and we should be even further ahead.

Please discuss...

FORWARDS
Walker ______ Fogarty
Jenkins _____ Himmelberg
McGovern ___ Thilthorpe
Lynch ______ Cook
Betts _______ McHenry
Cameron ____ McAdam
Knight ______ Gollant

MIDFIELD
Jacobs ______ O'Brien
O'Brien _____ Strachan
Sloane ______ Berry
Greenwood __ Keays
BCrouch ____ Schoenberg
MCrouch ____ Pedlar
Douglas ____ Laird
Smith ______ Jones
Milera ______ Milera
Atkins ______ Hately
Mackay _____ Sholl
___________ 2021 R1 Mid

DEFENDERS
Talia _______ Butts
Hartigan ____ Murray
Keath ______ McAsey
Lever ______ Doedee
Brown _____ McPherson
Kelly ______ Hamill
Laird ______ Parnell (?)
Seedsman __ Seedsman
___________ Worrell
___________ Hinge

DEPTH
Thompson __
Otten ______
Cheney ____
___________ Murphy
___________ Frampton

 

[Bazz_27]

I was thinking how we look like shaping up comparing our current youth (and those likely to still be there when we're challenging again) with our senior squad from 2017.

Crystal ball gazing forward and using gut feel on how our youth might develop, I reckon we've got enough talent to already cover the 2017 squad. Hopefully we can nail a few more draft picks or trade in some talent and we should be even further ahead.

Please discuss...

FORWARDS
Walker ______ Fogarty
Jenkins _____ Himmelberg
McGovern ___ Thilthorpe
Lynch ______ Cook
Betts _______ McHenry
Cameron ____ McAdam
Knight ______ Gollant

MIDFIELD
Jacobs ______ O'Brien
O'Brien _____ Strachan
Sloane ______ Berry
Greenwood __ Keays
BCrouch ____ Schoenberg
MCrouch ____ Pedlar
Douglas ____ Laird
Smith ______ Jones
Milera ______ Milera
Atkins ______ Hately
Mackay _____ Sholl
___________ 2021 R1 Mid

DEFENDERS
Talia _______ Butts
Hartigan ____ Murray
Keath ______ McAsey
Lever ______ Doedee
Brown _____ McPherson
Kelly ______ Hamill
Laird ______ Parnell (?)
Seedsman __ Seedsman
___________ Worrell
___________ Hinge

DEPTH
Thompson __
Otten ______
Cheney ____
___________ Murphy
___________ Frampton

There are certainly some areas we are looking better (mids) but small forwards and small -mid defenders is a major downgrade on what we had.
Betts- McHenry
Cameron- Mcadam
Kelly - Hamill
Laird - Parnell
Brown - Mcpherson

These are weak links IMO. Not having a go at individual players but I doubt the player on the right is anywhere near the player on the left. Kelly - Hamill is more that I think it's not a great comparison, maybe Hinge or Maynard will work better in that role. Also Murphy & Frampton are terrible depth.

 

[conVINCEd]

Definitely need a lot more class, pace and pressure among the small forwards.

We’re tracking ok but need an absolute star or two in the midfield to win a flag.

The same way a ‘Dangerfield’ type could’ve helped us win a premiership in 2017.

 

[GrommoT]

There are certainly some areas we are looking better (mids) but small forwards and small -mid defenders is a major downgrade on what we had.
Betts- McHenry
Cameron- Mcadam
Kelly - Hamill
Laird - Parnell
Brown - Mcpherson

These are weak links IMO. Not having a go at individual players but I doubt the player on the right is anywhere near the player on the left. Kelly - Hamill is more that I think it's not a great comparison, maybe Hinge or Maynard will work better in that role. Also Murphy & Frampton are terrible depth.

The small forwards are a work in progress ... maybe Cook can be a de-facto small forward (a big one!). I think a few are fairly bullish on what Parnell has shown so far even in just a few games. Hopefully the Moose finally lives up to the pre-draft promise.

 

[latinoheat]

I was thinking how we look like shaping up comparing our current youth (and those likely to still be there when we're challenging again) with our senior squad from 2017.

Crystal ball gazing forward and using gut feel on how our youth might develop, I reckon we've got enough talent to already cover the 2017 squad. Hopefully we can nail a few more draft picks or trade in some talent and we should be even further ahead.

Please discuss...

FORWARDS
Walker ______ Fogarty
Jenkins _____ Himmelberg
McGovern ___ Thilthorpe
Lynch ______ Cook
Betts _______ McHenry
Cameron ____ McAdam
Knight ______ Gollant

MIDFIELD
Jacobs ______ O'Brien
O'Brien _____ Strachan
Sloane ______ Berry
Greenwood __ Keays
BCrouch ____ Schoenberg
MCrouch ____ Pedlar
Douglas ____ Laird
Smith ______ Jones
Milera ______ Milera
Atkins ______ Hately
Mackay _____ Sholl
___________ 2021 R1 Mid

DEFENDERS
Talia _______ Butts
Hartigan ____ Murray
Keath ______ McAsey
Lever ______ Doedee
Brown _____ McPherson
Kelly ______ Hamill
Laird ______ Parnell (?)
Seedsman __ Seedsman
___________ Worrell
___________ Hinge

DEPTH
Thompson __
Otten ______
Cheney ____
___________ Murphy
___________ Frampton

Good thread

I think the 2017 forwards are far better than our current forwards.

current midfield looks ok , would be better with a pick 4 mid this year

defenders seem on par. A 21 yo smith would be ideal. Rebounding defender that Has a long penetrating kick from defence. Possibly Parnell or sholl might be that player. With hamills head knocks I fear for his future.

 

[GrommoT]

Good thread

I think the 2017 forwards are far better than our current forwards.

current midfield looks ok , would be better with a pick 4 mid this year

defenders seem on par. A 21 yo smith would be ideal. Rebounding defender that Has a long penetrating kick from defence. Possibly Parnell or sholl might be that player. With hamills head knocks I fear for his future.

Really hoping Hamill is not a jinxed player

 

[arrowman]

Good thread, lots of food for thought and discussion.

I think the 2017 forwards are far better than our current forwards.

Mmmmm maybe... But I think you've got to take into account

(1) the relative age/experience; the 202X forward line has a lot of younger / less experienced players and there's a way to go before we can call that one; and

(2) the performance of the 2017 forward line was down to more than the talents and performance of the individuals in that forward line. As is often (rightly) said on this forum, the forwards are enhanced / constrained a lot by what happens further up the field. And our transition / slingshot in 2017 was in a different league from our 2021 performance.

IMO there's no reason to assume the 202X forward line can't match the 2017 forward line, in time. But of course there's no reason to assume they will, either.

 

[Golumless]

I was thinking how we look like shaping up comparing our current youth (and those likely to still be there when we're challenging again) with our senior squad from 2017.

Crystal ball gazing forward and using gut feel on how our youth might develop, I reckon we've got enough talent to already cover the 2017 squad. Hopefully we can nail a few more draft picks or trade in some talent and we should be even further ahead.

Please discuss...

FORWARDS
Walker ______ Fogarty
Jenkins _____ Himmelberg
McGovern ___ Thilthorpe
Lynch ______ Cook
Betts _______ McHenry
Cameron ____ McAdam
Knight ______ Gollant

MIDFIELD
Jacobs ______ O'Brien
O'Brien _____ Strachan
Sloane ______ Berry
Greenwood __ Keays
BCrouch ____ Schoenberg
MCrouch ____ Pedlar
Douglas ____ Laird
Smith ______ Jones
Milera ______ Milera
Atkins ______ Hately
Mackay _____ Sholl
___________ 2021 R1 Mid

DEFENDERS
Talia _______ Butts
Hartigan ____ Murray
Keath ______ McAsey
Lever ______ Doedee
Brown _____ McPherson
Kelly ______ Hamill
Laird ______ Parnell (?)
Seedsman __ Seedsman
___________ Worrell
___________ Hinge

DEPTH
Thompson __
Otten ______
Cheney ____
___________ Murphy
___________ Frampton

When it comes to talent, 2017 has 2021 dead at the moment. Unrealised talent is a rather worthless thing, and that's something our 2021 squad, by design, has in spades. Whereas, most was realised in 2017. That said, there is certainly enough on our list to cobble together a top 4 team, and perhaps even a premier. Though, you could probably say that about every rebuilding team two drafts/trade periods in, seeing there are usually way too many unknowns this point.

I do think our rebuild is in a pretty comfortable place coming into the end of 2021, seeing we had a year where we've comfortably improved from 2020. It's in an intriguing place at the moment seeing how young it is, it's got a lot of the spine sorted, and Nicks has some coaching chops to him, considering he's got two top 4 scalps to his name this year. Though, we've gone for as high risk of a strategy as it gets with this build with how much of our senior core we've let go.

 

[Geoffa32]

Would a comparison between 2013 be better.

That is where we are atvtge moment. About to start a push to be a contender.




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[Danger in Texas]

Would a comparison between 2013 be better.

That is where we are atvtge moment. About to start a push to be a contender.




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It seems a better comp at first, but it's actually harder to do so in some ways. For instance, if you compare our midfields from 2013 to 2021 (not gonna count Mrouch and Vince in this as outgoing/potentially outgoing players):

Sloane (31), Seedsman (29), Laird (27), Keays (24), Schoenberg (20) vs Thompson (30), Douglas (26), Dangerfield (23), Sloane (23), Brad Crouch (19)

Our midfield of 2013 had two guys about to come into their A/A+ prime (Sloane/Dangerfield), while our best two mids right now are right either in their prime (Laird), or coming to the end of it (Seedsman). Sloane/Thompson, Keays/Douglas and Schoenberg/Crouch are probably fair comparisons, but as of right now we're probably lacking one A-grade mid that will be in the middle of their prime in roughly 2-3 years

Hopefully we can fix this through trades/FA in the coming years

 

[GrommoT]

Would a comparison between 2013 be better.

That is where we are atvtge moment. About to start a push to be a contender.

Also consider that the few years leading up to 2013 were radically different to the few years leading up to 2021.

2009 - we finish 5th (of 16)
....... - last "normal" uncompromised draft for a few years
2010 - 11th (of 16)
....... - GC concessions had picks 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13 and 15 in the first round, first pick each subsequent rounds, everyone else gets pushed out by those picks
2011 - 14th (of 17)
....... - GWS concessions similarly had picks 1, 2, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13 and 15 in the first round, first pick each subsequent rounds
2012 - 2nd (of 18)
....... - we stepped in the Tiprat dogpile and cost ourselves r1, r2 & r3 picks.
2013 - 11th (of 18)
....... - our Tiprat sanctions continue by losing r1 & r2 picks, tho traded Vince for pick 23 from Dees.

So we had pretty crappy draft hands leading into 2013.

Meanwhile, due to being able to develop players well, those that left like Lever, Cameron, McNuggets gave us more r1 picks that we usually get (even though we squandered some on Gibbs), along with our first ever bottoming out meant we have been able to load up on more talented youth than we've had before (post our own start up concessions) leading into 2021.