Opinion Our Back Six

[The_Wookie]

Carlton's best teams have almost always been built on the back of a settled back 6.
Unfortunately for injury and lack of options we haven't been able to settle on our back-line for some time now.

I still can't help but feel that it's time we stop worrying about making our back-men into something else, but just for them to develop a solid understanding of one another by playing blocks of games together.
I have at times liked the idea of pushing Tuohy and Yarran further up the ground, but then we're left with having to develop others.

Is it time just to settle on a unit and give them time to grow and if so, who should they be?

Full Back: Jamison
C.H Back: Henderson / Watson
3rd Tall: Laidler / White / McInnes
Bk. Pkt: Joseph / Yarran / Armfield / Temay
H.B.F'er: Tuohy / Duigan / McCarthy / Davies / O'Keeffe / Bootsma / Scotland

What's the ideal set-up for our back-line when all players are fit and healthy?

Based purely on yesterday

Watson will be the backup for Jamison/Henderson. Great to see jamison play so well yesterday, thats the man we want to see in the back again. henderson did spend some time forward, but given the people to come back (ie. waite), and the presence of Casboult, Hampson and Rowe Id expect him to go forward only if we ran out of options. McInnes faces 3-4 months on the sidelines, I dont expect him to play senior footy this year. Also based off yesterday, I wouldnt be surprised to see Lucas run off half back, and I expect Duigan to end up in defence.

FB: Laidler, Jamison, Duigan?
HB: Yarran, Henderson, Lucas

 

[HARKER]

Based purely on yesterday

Watson will be the backup for Jamison/Henderson. Great to see jamison play so well yesterday, thats the man we want to see in the back again. henderson did spend some time forward, but given the people to come back (ie. waite), and the presence of Casboult, Hampson and Rowe Id expect him to go forward only if we ran out of options. McInnes faces 3-4 months on the sidelines, I dont expect him to play senior footy this year. Also based off yesterday, I wouldnt be surprised to see Lucas run off half back, and I expect Duigan to end up in defence.

FB: Laidler, Jamison, Duigan?
HB: Yarran, Henderson, Lucas

We'd have to be about the only top 8 club that still has so many unknowns in respect to the make up of it starting squad.

I've seen enough of Watson this year to date not to dismiss him after one game, and I must say I've hardly been his biggest fan in more recent times.
He may have buckled after been shifted from his post after 10 minutes last year, but instead he really clocked his game up yesterday. I'm liking Watto.

 

[The_Wookie]

We'd have to be about the only top 8 club that still has so many unknowns in respect to the make up of it starting squad.

I've seen enough of Watson this year to date not to dismiss him after one game, and I must say I've hardly been his biggest fan in more recent times.
He may have buckled after been shifted from his post after 10 minutes last year, but instead he really clocked his game up yesterday. I'm liking Watto.

Im a big fan too, but theres a lot of KPP types to fit into the side. The next few weeks will tell us more, still way to early to predict season openers still.

 

[Faz 2000]

Given we've always had a problem being out-sized, I'd like to see our backline start with:

• Jamison (on rare occasions he's fit)
• Hendo
• Watson
• Laidler

Jamo is 1a defender, Hendo is 1b. They should go to the two best big forwards the opposition has. Swap if it's not working. I like Jamison deep back where his spoiling/Cmrking is a strength. Hendo moves better out at CHB.
Watson is learning, and should have a go against the third tall/resting ruck, working on his body work and using his lethal left boot on the way out.
Laidler is a ripper, because he can play taller or smaller, and he's an excellent 3rd man up. I'd like to give him license to patrol and intercept.
From there we are likely to put in Yarran as playmaker and another small as a lock-down type. Dunno who the best candidate is right now.

 

[Silvagnis]

We'd have to be about the only top 8 club that still has so many unknowns in respect to the make up of it starting squad.

I've seen enough of Watson this year to date not to dismiss him after one game, and I must say I've hardly been his biggest fan in more recent times.

He may have buckled after been shifted from his post after 10 minutes last year, but instead he really clocked his game up yesterday. I'm liking Watto.

Spot on. Watto is nothing like Livingston who always looked lost and lacked confidence to attack the ball. Even if it doesn't go Watto's way, he doesn't crack it and lose concentration like Thornton. Like MW at CHB with Jamison deep and Laidler as the third tall and third man in. Heaps more poise than Bower. Not concerned after Grundy and LRT held down a KPD spot beside Craig Bolton and Richards. The big boys take longer to come on.

 

[Jeremias]

This is certainly a good question, and not an easy one to answer. At the moment I feel we have some serious depth in defense, which is something we have not had in quite some time. I certainly don't envy the MC who have a very difficult time ahead of them in choosing the makeup of our defensive setups.

Personally I believe there to be three non-negotiable inclusions in our defense - Jamison, Henderson and Laidler. I feel they are comfortably our three best defenders and as such are the rock of our defense. Put simply, if they can manage to play the majority of games together as a unit I feel we will be very well placed.

From there it becomes a far more difficult question to answer. The other three places are well and truly up for grabs at this point in time. If we're talking purely about talent I'm not sure that Duigan makes our best side, but I do feel that he is a player that Mick will want in his side, especially early on in the season. We know he has limitations but his courage and toughness cannot be questioned. I think that Mick will, to an extent, lean on his senior players whilst he finds his feet and, particularly whilst Scotland serves his suspension, I think Duigan has a place.

Over the past two seasons Yarran has become our creative player off half back and whilst I do anticipate he will spend some time through the middle of the ground I don't think he's ready to make a permanent move there. I expect him to remain our primary creative option off half back in 2013.

I don't think that the sixth and final spot is one which will be 'designated' to any particular player, or type of player. I expect many players to spend time there and the decision as to who actually lines up in that position will largely depend on the opposition. I could probably look at the names on our list and make a case for the majority of players to feature at half back at some stage throughout the season and I expect many to spend some time there. At the moment I've got Bell in this position but that's more to fit him into the side and to show that it could theoretically be filled by any one of a number of names and he is just one of them. As an example if we are in need of an extra tall, then the position may be filled by Watson - in which case I'd expect him to go deep into defense and one of Laidler or Duigan to push up towards half back. If we're looking for extra run or an extra small it could be filled by someone like Tuohy, in which case he's probably more suited to a role not deep in defense but rather at half back, which in turn would then push Laidler/Duigan deeper into the defensive area. Normally that sixth spot would probably be filled by Scotland but as we know he's not going to be there for the first two rounds and we probably need to start grooming some alternatives through there regardless, given his age.

Of course reality dictates that these preferred players won't be spending every minute of every game in those positions and that's where depth comes into play. Ideally we want to be in a position where we could replace any of these players with other players and not lose much by way of quality should the need arise - be it through form, injury or suspension, or even just resting players in-game. It is important that we have options in reserve because they will always be called upon at some stage and teams can be found out and exploited if there's nothing in reserve. We discovered that somewhat last year but I feel we're far better placed this year should that happen again.

In terms of taller defenders I think we're shaping up quite nicely. Should Jamison or Henderson go down we look to have some good cover for them. Watson is a good kid who will get plenty of opportunities throughout the year and is not out of the running for a round 1 spot. Personally I can't see us going in with all four of Jamison, Henderson, Laidler and Watson as I feel that's just too slow and we leave ourselves open to exploitation. Regardless, Watto is improving and will play senior football - a very good option to have up our sleeve. Paddy Mac isn't as advanced as Watto but could also play senior football if need be. White is the other option and I've no doubt he'll feature but I do feel that he is better suited to a medium defensive role rather than as a tall defender.

White is also the obvious replacement for Laidler should he become unavailable. A solid footballer who hasn't been able to show his best because he's either been injured or played as a number one defender which is a role that doesn't do him justice. As a 3rd defender he'd be a good option but no doubt he's behind Laidler. Bootsma showed great promise in his debut season and whilst he's not got the bulk required to play that role permanently, I feel he is the best spoiler at the club and could fill in when required. Andy McInnes I feel would be at the top of the tree in terms of backup but of course he is injured and won't come into consideration until the latter stages of the season. Personally if he were fit I'd have him in the best 22 but he obviously can't be discussed in that manner at this point in time.

What could be a worry to some is that we still seem to lack a specialist small defender. AJ has been the man called upon to fill that role in the past but I don't believe he is up to it in that position. Personally I feel that Armfield is our best small defender but I also think he's more valuable to us further up the ground. Temay is a name that may come into consideration throughout the year, as is ROK. I'd personally keep him forward but don't be surprised if Walker is called upon to play in that position at times throughout the season. For now the spot goes to Duigan as in the past Mick hasn't really deployed a specialist small defender rather relying on the team defense to limit supply to these smalls and therefore curb their potential influence on the contest.

Running defensive options behind Yaz, we have aplenty - most of the aforementioned players and indeed most on the list could realistically get a run there. No point going through them as I'll be typing, and you'll be reading, forever.

So at this stage my thinking for the defensive lineup is as follows:

B: Jeremy Laidler - Michael Jamison - Nick Duigan
HB: Chris Yarran - Lachie Henderson - Tom Bell (?)

 

[Stefchook]

Also based off yesterday, I wouldnt be surprised to see Lucas run off half back.

I agree. Plays his best footy by far when behind the ball.

 

[HARKER]

This is certainly a good question, and not an easy one to answer. At the moment I feel we have some serious depth in defense, which is something we have not had in quite some time. I certainly don't envy the MC who have a very difficult time ahead of them in choosing the makeup of our defensive setups.


So at this stage my thinking for the defensive lineup is as follows:

B: Jeremy Laidler - Michael Jamison - Nick Duigan
HB: Chris Yarran - Lachie Henderson - Tom Bell (?)

That's why there's a thread in regards to our back 6, as it's not easy work.

Goreds put forward a good view of how we may go about things and it may also be largely match-up dependent.

Would love to see Laidler matched up on someone smaller than 195cm player for a change, as he always seems to get one of the resting rucks.
Having said that he does play that size at times and really is a 189cm player that can play much taller and heavier than his stature suggests. Does O.K. on the smalls also.



EDIT: This is our back six thread.........................

 

[Jeremias]

That's why there's a thread in regards to our back 6, as it's not easy work.

Goreds put forward a good view of how we may go about things and it may also be largely match-up dependent.

Would love to see Laidler matched up on someone smaller than 195cm player for a change, as he always seems to get one of the resting rucks.
Having said that he does play that size at times and really is a 189cm player that can play much taller and heavier than his stature suggests. Does O.K. on the smalls also.



EDIT: This is our back six thread.........................

Have a big night, did you?

A fit and firing Laidler does wonders for our side. Just about our most important player in the back half. Was missed enormously last season and expect us to be a better side just for his inclusion.

 

[Bluesince62]

I don't think that the sixth and final spot is one which will be 'designated' to any particular player, or type of player. I expect many players to spend time there and the decision as to who actually lines up in that position will largely depend on the opposition.

Very much with you on this. I can see Walker playing on Milne and Ballantyne and any other nasty types.

 

[Claypigeon]

Very much with you on this. I can see Walker playing on Milne and Ballantyne and any other nasty types.

Very underrated footballer (mainly because he is a mongrel). .. Could be a good candidate for Joseph too, who has shown he can lock down midfield type small forwards (ie. Ablett, Rioli). .. Walker would be a good fit too of course. ..

 

[blue healer]

I know it's very early days but, from what I saw yesterday from Hampson, Casboult and Rowe, if they are to be not included as talls in our forward line it is going to take a good player to replace them.

With that in mind why would we not give some thought to moving Waite to the backline?

Has been exceptional there in the past but necessity has forced him forward.

If our tall forwards can maintain that sort of output, and I can't see why they can't, Waite just may be the missing tall link in the backline.

Between he and Hendo they could both pinch hit forward when our other talls are struggling. I would think much better than pinch hitting someone like Duigan forward.

 

[Bluesince62]

Very underrated footballer (mainly because he is a mongrel). .. Could be a good candidate for Joseph too, who has shown he can lock down midfield type small forwards (ie. Ablett, Rioli). .. Walker would be a good fit too of course. ..

Goes with what Jeremias said, horses for courses. AJ has done very well on Rioli but terrible on Milne.
Guys get specialist defensive forward roles but in the past we don't seem to have picked guys for one-off roles in defence - Walker's game on Milne last year was one of the few tried.

 

[Claypigeon]

Goes with what Jeremias said, horses for courses. AJ has done very well on Rioli but terrible on Milne.
Guys get specialist defensive forward roles but in the past we don't seem to have picked guys for one-off roles in defence - Walker's game on Milne last year was one of the few tried.

Sorry, was talking about Ballantyne (didn't make that clear with just the bolding of the quote). .. Milne is a different beast, needs more a medium defender. ..

 

[Kramer1]

Really interested to see how Bootsma comes along this year. In Laidler and Bootsma we potentially have two defenders who can play quite small through to quite tall...that rare versatility for any defensive structure.

For now I would have to go with -

Tuohy, Watson, Jamison
Laidler, Henderson, Yarran

Tall, though both Jamo and Henderson have good mobility and read the play well. Both Tuohy and Duigan are plenty hard, but Tuohy's speed and disposal by foot edge out Duigan leadership for mine.

In truth of course we will rarely have an ideal defensive six available so it is more about indoctrinating a structure so that the guys above, Bootsma, Duigan, McInnes, White, McCarthy, Scotland, Armfield and Walker are all realtively interchangable.

 

[Faz 2000]

Milne is a different beast, needs more a medium defender. ..

Needs someone to not fall for his baulks, and realise he will circle around onto his right and kick across his body EVERY TIME. Move over 1.5m and forward 1m into his "go to" zone and Milne literally has nowhere to go. He'll be flummoxed.

 

[Blue since 72]

Personally I believe there to be three non-negotiable inclusions in our defense - Jamison, Henderson and Laidler. I feel they are comfortably our three best defenders and as such are the rock of our defense. Put simply, if they can manage to play the majority of games together as a unit I feel we will be very well placed.

From there it becomes a far more difficult question to answer. The other three places are well and truly up for grabs at this point in time. If we're talking purely about talent I'm not sure that Duigan makes our best side, but I do feel that he is a player that Mick will want in his side, especially early on in the season. We know he has limitations but his courage and toughness cannot be questioned. I think that Mick will, to an extent, lean on his senior players whilst he finds his feet and, particularly whilst Scotland serves his suspension, I think Duigan has a place.

Agree with the three non negotiables and at this stage Duigan's inclusion. As you say think Mick will have him in for his courage and voice.

The other guy that excites me is Mcinnes. I really hope he gets back into the 22 as his games last year showed him to be a great older style close checking defender with strength and a willingness to run and carry when a opportunity presented.

 

[Kramer1]

Sorry, was talking about Ballantyne (didn't make that clear with just the bolding of the quote). .. Milne is a different beast, needs more a medium defender. ..

Reckon he will find #1 alongside him more often than not after the round 23 last year. AW has shot himself in the foot...has to be that complete shutdown job that has sparked the talk of sending him back this year. Need three of him.

 

[Faz 2000]

Reckon he will find #1 alongside him more often than not after the round 23 last year. AW has shot himself in the foot...has to be that complete shutdown job that has sparked the talk of sending him back this year. Need three of him.

To be honest, we need one consistent one. If he played that well in defence regularly, great - we have a role there for him. If he could repeat his 50 goal heroics as a forward - awesome, what a weapon. At this stage he's 26, played 140-odd games and we still have no idea where he should be playing!!

 

[Kramer1]

To be honest, we need one consistent one. If he played that well in defence regularly, great - we have a role there for him. If he could repeat his 50 goal heroics as a forward - awesome, what a weapon. At this stage he's 26, played 140-odd games and we still have no idea where he should be playing!!

I think its true that his versatility can be his undoing, though coaching must cop some of the responsibility for that. I find whenever he has had a well defined role he has stuck to it well...when left to his own devices he can drift out of games. For his natural brilliance and athletic prowess I don't think AW has great footy IQ and needs a clear task at hand.

As brilliant as my observation clearly is...still don't know where I'd play him. I suspect he is best in the lead up full forward role. Kicked a lot of money for jam goals in 2011, and creates plenty of space for the likes of Levi to work in behind him.

 

[Faz 2000]

I think if you have a guy on your list who can kick 50 goals in a year in the AFL, you play him as a forward.

 

[Claypigeon]

I think if you have a guy on your list who can kick 50 goals in a year in the AFL, you play him as a forward.

I think if you have a guy that is blisteringly fast and can run all day you can play him in the midfield and let him kick goals from there. .. Just wanted to use the same logic but I do agree that he is best playing a majority of his time deep in the forward line. ..

 

[Jeremias]

The other guy that excites me is Mcinnes. I really hope he gets back into the 22 as his games last year showed him to be a great older style close checking defender with strength and a willingness to run and carry when a opportunity presented.

I've spoken a number of times of my admiration for McInnes, and my belief that at full fitness he's part of our best 22.

Doesn't do anything flashy nor does he do anything particularly brilliantly, but he's a footballer who does everything to a solid level. On that front, he is a very similar style footballer to Laidler.

Andy Mac also showed that he's capable of pushing up the ground and playing in the forward half if need be. A very handy trait to have and one which will no doubt hold him in good stead down the track.

It is a real shame we won't be seeing him for a while yet.

 

[HARKER]

I've spoken a number of times of my admiration for McInnes, and my belief that at full fitness he's part of our best 22.

Doesn't do anything flashy nor does he do anything particularly brilliantly, but he's a footballer who does everything to a solid level. On that front, he is a very similar style footballer to Laidler.

Andy Mac also showed that he's capable of pushing up the ground and playing in the forward half if need be. A very handy trait to have and one which will no doubt hold him in good stead down the track.

It is a real shame we won't be seeing him for a while yet.

I don't know. I think we may have got a little ahead of ourselves on McInnes.
I watched him get beaten to the ball so many times at VFL level, I wondered how he may escape the cull, but again opportunity gave him a chance to shine.
I still don't see Andy capable of breaking into our side should we have most back-men fit and available, but as has been the case so often over the past 12 months, who really knows.

Also feel a little sorry for Davies because he does have some good attributes but I still think he finds things just a little too scary at the highest level.

 

[Blue since 72]

I don't know. I think we may have got a little ahead of ourselves on McInnes.
I watched him get beaten to the ball so many times at VFL level, I wondered how he may escape the cull, but again opportunity gave him a chance to shine.
I still don't see Andy capable of breaking into our side should we have most back-men fit and available, but as has been the case so often over the past 12 months, who really knows.

Also feel a little sorry for Davies because he does have some good attributes but I still think he finds things just a little too scary at the highest level.

I think it might even have been you Harker who said some players just play better at senior level and I do agree with that statement for some guys. For some it seems they compete at the level of their opponents.

On skills alone I actually believe McInnes is a better option than Duigan however certainly understand why Mick would want Duigan in the team.

Andrew has time on his side and I certainly believe and hope he has a long career at the Blues.

On Davies yeah I think he's between a rock and a hard place in terms of the players we have who are competing for similar roles.

I mused sometime ago his possible inclusion in the midfield as a big crash and bash body but whatever happens, this year will be pivotal for him. Recall Mick saying recently he needs to find out more about Marcus in terms of what's his story and if he can play.