Our best rolling 22

[gbatman]

I might be getting ahead of myself but if Dow or Stocker come on and are worth developing in the seniors then how do we do it? A team similar to this one could be what we see early days if that is the case.

B: Plowman Weitering Docherty
HB: Saad Jones Williamson
C: Walsh Cripps Martin
HF: Murphy Casboult Gibbons
F: Betts McKay Fisher
OB: Pittonet/DeKoning Williams Setterfield
IC: SPS Dow/Stocker Curnow Silvagni/McGovern

It would be good to have a young midfielder come of age and be playing well enough to develop in the seniors. I think it's easier done too if they can play in the forward line. Think we will know more after this coming practice match. If the endurance isn't super good then that's easy, play part time forward and other times bench.

The criticism I have of the modern game is the IC cap has turned things away from exciting impact players to mundane athletes but there are still spots for your quick powerful impact players if they are good enough and Dow and Stocker fit that profile if their game has got to that level.

 

[RAPPA]

I might be getting ahead of myself but if Dow or Stocker come on and are worth developing in the seniors then how do we do it? A team similar to this one could be what we see early days if that is the case.

B: Plowman Weitering Docherty
HB: Saad Jones Williamson
C: Walsh Cripps Martin
HF: Murphy Casboult Gibbons
F: Betts McKay Fisher
OB: Pittonet/DeKoning Williams Setterfield
IC: SPS Dow/Stocker Curnow Silvagni/McGovern

It would be good to have a young midfielder come of age and be playing well enough to develop in the seniors. I think it's easier done too if they can play in the forward line. Think we will know more after this coming practice match. If the endurance isn't super good then that's easy, play part time forward and other times bench.

The criticism I have of the modern game is the IC cap has turned things away from exciting impact players to mundane athletes but there are still spots for your quick powerful impact players if they are good enough and Dow and Stocker fit that profile if their game has got to that level.

There’s only 22 available spots per week so if we track towards having depth (never thought I’d ever see it based on the last decade plus) and players being starved of opportunities, I can see some of these players look elsewhere for opportunities. It’s $hit but that’s the reality and the risk you run when you build a very competitive group of players.

 

[CsBlue]

you're basing that on what exactly?

He hardly played last year and from all reports has shadowed Walsh in training on and outside of the CFC bubble....

Bottom line is last week's effort gets him closer to a starting 22 gig.

Based on his ball use since 16 years of age. If he’s a starting mid we’re not a top 8 side.

 

[Erko Blue]

The conversation around McGovern and Silvagni is an interesting one. Unfortunately it says a lot about McGovern.
If McGovern has played consistently to his ability the would be no discussion at all.
He is a true match winning talent but hasn't shown anywhere near enough.
The coaching staff has stated quite emphatically the we are a better side with him in the team.

Usually I would take a trustworthy hardworker over a flaky talent. However because of the coaches comments I think, if fit, he gets a spot in the team.

If both Silvagni and McGovern have similar output to the last 2 years I can see a team with neither in.

 

[BluStreak]

IMO Silvagni has display more smarts and effort than McG.
I want both to succeed.
If Jsos can hold his marks more than I would have him as the defensive hhf role.
His ability to lock the ball in the forward arc or get it to ground as well as his vision is substantial but i would still rather he held his marks.

McG has not shown the effort (for whatever reason) to date that warrants his inclusion.
There is not doubt about his talent, it is just wasted at the moment.

 

[lily of laguna]

The delivery to jsos was woeful. Never out in front. That said McGovern has a much better leap. I love jsos's efforts and was very bummed he was injured last year.

I don’t really see the value in comparing Govs 2020 with JSos’ 2019... for obvious reasons.

There’s a debate to be had as to who is more effective in our side but at this stage JSOS got given first crack and had a very mediocre game.

It’s a credit to him that he got outmarked so rarely but he also never looked like taking one himself and I never felt he looked like a threat to hit the scoreboard.

Id like to see them both against the saints if possible and think both add value in different ways but if Levi and Harry are both fit and playing round 1 theres only room for 1.

On SM-G920I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Wickzki]

Dow’s endurance is nowhere near a starting mid and he will still butcher the ball. People need to calm down after one practice game.

Funny things happen when you have your first genuine off season since your first year in the league. For example, instead of falling behind it enables you to increase your base endurance and begin developing that tank from day one.

Paddy will be fire this year.

 

[Wickzki]

The delivery to jsos was woeful. Never out in front. That said McGovern has a much better leap. I love jsos's efforts and was very bummed he was injured last year.

On SM-G920I using BigFooty.com mobile app

You can never doubt Jack's on field effort, determination and endeavor. Players like Jack are infectious to other players and make you lift your own game. Him in the 22 means someone who lacks those qualities or is burned out and needs a week to regain energy and form can do so.

That said, I don't see Jack as best 22. I do see him as a vital depth player who gets more games than he misses.

 

[BigFrizz36]

I might be getting ahead of myself but if Dow or Stocker come on and are worth developing in the seniors then how do we do it? A team similar to this one could be what we see early days if that is the case.

B: Plowman Weitering Docherty
HB: Saad Jones Williamson
C: Walsh Cripps Martin
HF: Murphy Casboult Gibbons
F: Betts McKay Fisher
OB: Pittonet/DeKoning Williams Setterfield
IC: SPS Dow/Stocker Curnow Silvagni/McGovern

It would be good to have a young midfielder come of age and be playing well enough to develop in the seniors. I think it's easier done too if they can play in the forward line. Think we will know more after this coming practice match. If the endurance isn't super good then that's easy, play part time forward and other times bench.

The criticism I have of the modern game is the IC cap has turned things away from exciting impact players to mundane athletes but there are still spots for your quick powerful impact players if they are good enough and Dow and Stocker fit that profile if their game has got to that level.

Using this post for example purposes (its a well thought out post by the way). In the Herald Sun footy 2021 Leigh Montagna states "I'm a little bit more sceptical. I went through their best 22 and 14 are going to be 27 or older. So if they don't play finals, where are they as a club". Taking this team for example I can only see 6 players that are 27 or over. I suspect that he has added the 26 year olds (Saad, Williams, Cripps, Martin, Mcgovern and Plowman) and lumped them in even though you imagine all would have 5 years plus left. The only other ones I could think of is Newnes & Newman. Pretty lazy journalism for mine. We appear to have gone from too young to too old in the blink of an eye.

 

[Wickzki]

Taking this team for example I can only see 6 players that are 27 or over. I suspect that he has added the 26 year olds (Saad, Williams, Cripps, Martin, Mcgovern and Plowman)

For sports scouting and reporting purposes it's common practice to take the year minus the year the player was born and call that their Age X year even if the played isn't necessarily that age until Y point in that year. This is what he would have done.

That said I argue that it's a poor take.

Only 12 players on the list in their age 27+ seasons also.

 

[thylacine60]

Based on his ball use since 16 years of age. If he’s a starting mid we’re not a top 8 side.

We aren't.

 

[The Bighouse]

IMO Silvagni has display more smarts and effort than McG.
I want both to succeed.
If Jsos can hold his marks more than I would have him as the defensive hhf role.
His ability to lock the ball in the forward arc or get it to ground as well as his vision is substantial but i would still rather he held his marks.

McG has not shown the effort (for whatever reason) to date that warrants his inclusion.
There is not doubt about his talent, it is just wasted at the moment.

Morph them into one. Quite a handy player we’d have on our hands there.

 

[Kernafides]

Funny things happen when you have your first genuine off season since your first year in the league. For example, instead of falling behind it enables you to increase your base endurance and begin developing that tank from day one.

Paddy will be fire this year.

Fitness is one thing...hunting the footy with intent is another...let's see if he can do that in a game with real heat in it

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Based on his ball use since 16 years of age. If he’s a starting mid we’re not a top 8 side.

how's dangers ball use, or mitchell's, or treloar's - they all played in Top 8 sides.

Has Richmond taught you nothing about football. Using the ball is irrelevant any more. It's getting the ball and moving it forward and then winnning the next contest. Gone are the Hawthorn days of winning the ball and not turning it over. Too many zones, athletes, rule changes to stop players keeping possession of the ball. The game favours those who can win the ball and break free. Dow does that.

 

[WFGodot]

Right Now.... assuming TDK's back problems were just a hiccup... Take NO note of the order that the players not listed in the starting 22.

B	Lachie Plowman	Liam Jones	Tom Williamson
HB	Sam Docherty	Jacob Weitering	Adam Saad
C	Sam Walsh	Will Setterfield	Sam Petrevski Seton
HF	Mitch McGovern	Levi Casboult	Jack Martin
F	M Murphy	Harry McKay	Z Fisher
Follow	Tom De Koning	Patrick Cripps	Z Williams
I	Paddy Dow	E Curnow	D Cunningham	E Betts
	Michael Gibbons	Lochie O'Brien	Corey Durdin	Jack Carroll
	Lachie Fogarty	Josh Honey	Sam Ramsey	Brodie Kemp
	Liam Stocker	Matt Kennedy	Luke Parks	Nic Newman
	Lachie Fogarty	Caleb Marchbank	Matt Owies	Matt Cottrell
	Marc Pittonet	Charlie Curnow	Marc Pittinet	Sam Philp

 

[azlou]

how's dangers ball use, or mitchell's, or treloar's - they all played in Top 8 sides.

Has Richmond taught you nothing about football. Using the ball is irrelevant any more. It's getting the ball and moving it forward and then winnning the next contest. Gone are the Hawthorn days of winning the ball and not turning it over. Too many zones, athletes, rule changes to stop players keeping possession of the ball. The game favours those who can win the ball and break free. Dow does that.

I don’t agree I still see kicking as the most important aspect of the game.
That’s why I value SPS rarely wastes a disposal
You need to put it on you’re leading forwards chest not over his head or short
Transition is more important than ever and one crap kick sees it rebound for a goal
I didn’t rate Dow because his he kicked directly to opponents over 30 meters
From the limited vision I saw him play 12vs12 last year he had improved
His last game the improvement was stark the reason ide have him in the team is his improved field kicking and for goal
The old Dow I wouldn’t have any where near best 22
The bang it forward is something I dislike in our play we need options for the disposer
Whether by runners for the handball or leads
Every one rates different aspects of the game so I’m not saying you’re wrong
But I value kicking higher than most other aspects
For instance I believe if a player increased there kicking efficiency by 10% it would make the a 25% better player
Dusty is the player he is because he nails his kicks for goal and on field
If Dow does that with his power acceleration he’d be better than Dusty
You never no let’s see what happens this year
I was Bullish on Dow when first drafted said he was harder than the blue stone lining the Carlton alleys but his kicking turned me off
His kicking has me smiling again

 

[gbatman]

There’s only 22 available spots per week so if we track towards having depth (never thought I’d ever see it based on the last decade plus) and players being starved of opportunities, I can see some of these players look elsewhere for opportunities. It’s $hit but that’s the reality and the risk you run when you build a very competitive group of players.

Our list management will be a little less about offloading those who aren't good enough for once. I expect injury prone players and older blokes who have been matched by younger ones to be the first to go followed buy a few who are just a little down the pecking order and maybe there will be some who are poached by other clubs who are not getting opportunity. Some of the less skilled ones could be on the outer. Our list strength will continue to grow and I fee this season we could see some youth come in and take over.

As for team selection we are probably going to be looking at a number of player of similar ability. We'll have to use small things like selecting the better kick or the fitter player etc. Some however are bloody tough, I guess form will dictate those decisions.

Using this post for example purposes (its a well thought out post by the way). In the Herald Sun footy 2021 Leigh Montagna states "I'm a little bit more sceptical. I went through their best 22 and 14 are going to be 27 or older. So if they don't play finals, where are they as a club". Taking this team for example I can only see 6 players that are 27 or over. I suspect that he has added the 26 year olds (Saad, Williams, Cripps, Martin, Mcgovern and Plowman) and lumped them in even though you imagine all would have 5 years plus left. The only other ones I could think of is Newnes & Newman. Pretty lazy journalism for mine. We appear to have gone from too young to too old in the blink of an eye.

Yeah that's funny. We have brought some older players in recently, that's because you don't win flags with kids. We have a few older ones who were on the list pre-rebuild who have hang on as well. Murphy, Betts, Casboult, Curnow don't really count if we have the young replacements on our list developing in the reserves and the fringes like they do on good lists because they will be replaced soon. The others have been brought in to win a premiership with us. Yep our best 22 may have some older ones, many of them have replacements developing and the rest will be there when challenging. A lot of our older guys, you could see most of them being replaced with younger ones who are already on our list.

 

[gbatman]

Dow kicked the ball well in the practice match and handballed a lot and well. Lets see if that continues. We Carry Curnow who is a poor kick and Murphy has lost it as an accurate kick but they mostly get away with it. Newnes is a long kick but a poor kick when it comes to kicking short and accurately. Kicking is an issue in our side but it's improving. If we were concerned then we need to be favoring blokes like Stocker and O'Brien at the selection table. But as mentioned relentlessly winning contests is also a must have. The game and Richmond are not all about winning contests, it's not all about hitting all your targets it's about doing both well and we need to develop a team that does both well. We can carry some who don't do both well but not many. I think having a centerman or two who aren't lethal kicks is ok if they are great ball winners and use it moderately well.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

The conversation around McGovern and Silvagni is an interesting one. Unfortunately it says a lot about McGovern.
If McGovern has played consistently to his ability the would be no discussion at all.
He is a true match winning talent but hasn't shown anywhere near enough.
The coaching staff has stated quite emphatically the we are a better side with him in the team.

Usually I would take a trustworthy hardworker over a flaky talent. However because of the coaches comments I think, if fit, he gets a spot in the team.

If both Silvagni and McGovern have similar output to the last 2 years I can see a team with neither in.

Agreed, 2021 is Brackets' last chance to shine at Carlton....

 

[CsBlue]

how's dangers ball use, or mitchell's, or treloar's - they all played in Top 8 sides.

Has Richmond taught you nothing about football. Using the ball is irrelevant any more. It's getting the ball and moving it forward and then winnning the next contest. Gone are the Hawthorn days of winning the ball and not turning it over. Too many zones, athletes, rule changes to stop players keeping possession of the ball. The game favours those who can win the ball and break free. Dow does that.

Actually, using the ball is the most important part of the game.

 

[4flagsin5yrs]

Actually, using the ball is the most important part of the game.

The Tigers are notorious for simply bombing the ball forward - a lot.

Works for them as they do it very quickly.

 

[haveago]

Dont want to be disrespectful to an all time great but cant see why so many have Eddie Betts in their teams for rd1?

13 goals last year in 15 games . Statistically his worst season ever and he aint getting better at 34.
And dont give me the covid excuse.....was same for everyone. His time is up, no shame in that.


He even lost his clean one touch stuff last year and apart from 3 good games was not up to it anymore I am afraid.

Let us remember him for how great he was . (especially at Adelaide )
Fairy tales rarely come true and it did not for Eddie.

Time to move on and ahead.......Looking forward so much to watching Durdin and hoping he plays tomorrow.


Bring on the DISLIKES.....

 

[Ash24]

Dont want to be disrespectful to an all time great but cant see why so many have Eddie Betts in their teams for rd1?

13 goals last year in 15 games . Statistically his worst season ever and he aint getting better at 34.
And dont give me the covid excuse.....was same for everyone. His time is up, no shame in that.


He even lost his clean one touch stuff last year and apart from 3 good games was not up to it anymore I am afraid.

Let us remember him for how great he was . (especially at Adelaide )
Fairy tales rarely come true and it did not for Eddie.

Time to move on and ahead.......Looking forward so much to watching Durdin and hoping he plays tomorrow.


Bring on the DISLIKES.....

It's weird. He kicked 9 goals in the first 5 games, and then suddenly it dropped to only 4 more in the last 10 of the season.

The end to his year was horrible, but overall he did better than every single other small forward. Betts averaged more goals per game than all of Fisher, Martin, Newnes, Gibbons and Cuningham.

I still think he has it in him to kick 15+ this year, and reckon he will thrive under crowds again. I do hope though that someone like Fog, Durdin, Honey, Philp or Owies can steal his spot in the b22.

 

[haveago]

It's weird. He kicked 9 goals in the first 5 games, and then suddenly it dropped to only 4 more in the last 10 of the season.

The end to his year was horrible, but overall he did better than every single other small forward. Betts averaged more goals per game than all of Fisher, Martin, Newnes, Gibbons and Cuningham.

I still think he has it in him to kick 15+ this year, and reckon he will thrive under crowds again. I do hope though that someone like Fog, Durdin, Honey, Philp or Owies can steal his spot in the b22.

15 goals is not gonna cut it for mine (if he could in fact produce that)......will be sad to see him go out playing seconds and I would rather him retire.

Particularly if he can do it whilst we can add another player to our list. He could still be at Club to mentor the kids.

 

[JustaBattler]

At some stage:

1. One of Marchbank/Newnes or Kemp will replace Williamson and free him to go to wing.
2. Docherty may actually end up playing a wing rotation if Teague wants to keep SPS in defence - otherwise SPS will need to able to play wing or HFF.
3. Later in the year - Charlie should get back which will put pressure on one of Levi or McGovern top keep their places.
4. TDK/Pittonet as a combo is the only way Levi gets pushed out if Harry/McGovern Charlie become the plan later in the year.

Dow/Stocker/Newnes will be competing for midfield/HFF rotations all year.
Gibbons/Owies/Honey/Durdin will be eyeing off Eddie's spot all year- and Gibbons will be given first crack from the bench due to runs on the board.
LoB/Philp/Carroll/Cottrell/Kennedy/SOJ - will be battling for any extended run in AFL.

My best team assuming 100% fitness would be:

Plowman Jones Marchbank
Docherty Weitering Saad
Williams Walsh Williamson
TDK Cripps Setterfield
Fisher Harry Martin
Murphy Charlie McGovern

IC: SPS Ed Dow Cuningham