Our Big Guys

[ThisIsJake]

we suddenly have a lot of talls.

keefe, frost and witts dont look like they are giving up there spots. but we still have reid and brown to come back in and i just dont know if we can play all of these talls.

backs: frost, brown, keefe(can ruck in extreme circumstances)
rucks: grundy(forward), witts(forward)
forwards: cloke, white(ruck), reid(back), goldsack(back)*

*more of a lead up forward but still takes a spot away from a crumbing or small forward.

so for me it is:
witts vs white
brown vs keefe

what do you think the ideal setup for our talls is?

 

[TradeDraft]

So would you think there we have too many any of them are Tradable?

I am not sure but I like to hear what other people think

 

[jonbe54]

Bank the talls guys we need backups for injuiries.

 

[Temploar]

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/what-to-do-with-our-talls-mainly-nathan-brown.1061798/

 

[Jonno94]

I'm still not sold on Frost this year due to his foot skills. It's been noticeable whenever we try to switch the play and a poor kick by Frost turns the ball over in our back half. Can't do that against the good teams.

At the moment my ideal set-up would be,

Defenders: Keeffe, Reid
Forwards: Cloke, White
Ruck: Grundy, Witts

 

[TradeDraft]

I'm still not sold on Frost this year due to his foot skills. It's been noticeable whenever we try to switch the play and a poor kick by Frost turns the ball over in our back half. Can't do that against the good teams.

At the moment my ideal set-up would be,

Defenders: Keeffe, Reid
Forwards: Cloke, White
Ruck: Grundy, Witts

Well Presti did not have Great Foot Skills

 

[Jonno94]

Well Presti did not have Great Foot Skills

Its 2014. You now must have good foot skills in your back half, especially your key defenders.

 

[Shaneprice97]

I'm still not sold on Frost this year due to his foot skills. It's been noticeable whenever we try to switch the play and a poor kick by Frost turns the ball over in our back half.

At the moment my ideal set-up would be,

Defenders: Keeffe, Reid
Forwards: Cloke, White
Ruck: Grundy, Witts

He knows his limitations though, he will mostly either bomb it long to a pack or a 1v1 or hand pass to a better kicking teammate.

 

[TradeDraft]

Its 2014. You now must have good foot skills in your back half, especially your key defenders.

Well I feel he has improved with a bit but after less then 10 games you can’t give up on him

 

[UpTheMags]

Backs: Frost, Keeffe
Forwards: Cloke, Reid, White (ruck relief)
Rucks: Grundy

Keeffe > Brown because Brown and Frost are both negating defenders so for team balance Keeffe's distribution is important.

White > Witts because forward line will be far too slow with Witts, Reid and Cloke. Jesse's athleticism enables a much better team balance

 

[Jonno94]

He knows his limitations though, he will mostly either bomb it long to a pack or a 1v1 or hand pass to a better kicking teammate.

But this also means we have less offensive drive from our back half, its a non negotiable in today's game and he needs to work on it.

Just so we're clear I said I wasn't completely sold on him for just this year.

 

[BEEG]

Going to one very unlucky back but we should be resting these blokes so Brown Frost and Keefe im sure will be rotated during they year and the best 2 get a game come finals

Witt's and Grundy are the same will be rotated and rested as they are just kids

Best ruck plays come finals

Competition for spots is great

 

[ThisIsJake]

Going to one very unlucky back but we should be resting these blokes so Brown Frost and Keefe im sure will be rotated during they year and the best 2 get a game come finals

Witt's and Grundy are the same will be rotated and rested as they are just kids

Best ruck plays come finals

Competition for spots is great

yeah i definitely agree, just wanted to see what people's ideal setup would be if finals were tomorrow.

 

[ThisIsJake]

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/what-to-do-with-our-talls-mainly-nathan-brown.1061798/

oh sorry, my bad.

 

[AJH073]

Considering we will get a mid to late teens pick in the draft we could look at offloading that and a player. Our recruiting has been sensational recently and I think we could take a hit in the draft this year. Maybe we could look at trading off 1 of these guys and a draft pick to see if we could land a key Power forward or Monster ruck. Nathan Brown? What is his contract?

 

[rustyg70]

yeah i definitely agree, just wanted to see what people's ideal setup would be if finals were tomorrow.

KPB: Brown and Keefe
KPF: Cloke, Reid and White.

Thats how we trained throughout the pre season, so I'd say that is how Bucks would be thinking also.
Just because the younger brigade have come on quicker than thought doesn't mean he should change his thinking.

 

[Demonalke]

I would always start every game with Reid back for at least one quarter. Get his confidence up and then move him forward to kick some goals. Not sure If true but my memory keeps telling me that he kicks better after starting in defence and moving forward rather than starting forward.

 

[sr36]

But this also means we have less offensive drive from our back half, its a non negotiable in today's game and he needs to work on it.

Just so we're clear I said I wasn't completely sold on him for just this year.

Brown doesn't offer any offensive drive either and Frost is better defensively as he can play on a much wider range of dangerous forwards. I'm happy to have a defender who plays a solely shut down role - it's either Frost or Brown and I think that Frost does it better.

 

[Jonno94]

Brown doesn't offer any offensive drive either and Frost is better defensively as he can play on a much wider range of dangerous forwards. I'm happy to have a defender who plays a solely shut down role - it's either Frost or Brown and I think that Frost does it better.

I said my preferred set-up was Keeffe and Reid, no idea where you got the Brown debate from.

 

[Knightmare]

we suddenly have a lot of talls.

keefe, frost and witts dont look like they are giving up there spots. but we still have reid and brown to come back in and i just dont know if we can play all of these talls.

backs: frost, brown, keefe(can ruck in extreme circumstances)
rucks: grundy(forward), witts(forward)
forwards: cloke, white(ruck), reid(back), goldsack(back)*

*more of a lead up forward but still takes a spot away from a crumbing or small forward.

so for me it is:
witts vs white
brown vs keefe

what do you think the ideal setup for our talls is?

It's a good situation and in my Almanac I'll hopefully update later in the week it is something I was going to touch on.

I've got:

KPF: Cloke, Reid
Ruck: Grundy, Witts
KPD: Frost, Keeffe

--
Depth:
KPF: White
Ruck: Hudson
KPD: Brown
Other: Lynch

Goldsack isn't a key forward and he's not a relevant part of this discussion but I'm certainly enjoying his play in the front half with his play v Essendon B.O.G. worthy with his tackling pressure a gamechanger.

On Grundy and Witts v Grundy and White it will be one of the hot topics for the rest of the season I'm leaning towards the former. Grundy in a similar way to Cloke with Reid in the front half is more effective with Witts in the team as his rucking partner. When Witts takes some of the ruck minutes it allows Grundy more meaningful minutes through the ruck where he can play at full intensity all the time he's in there which is the key. With Witts a capable forward they compliment each other and give the team the right balance when playing in the same team.

White while he's going fine in the seniors and adds some nice athleticism as a relatively poor mark and someone who won't provide significant ruck minutes he neither helps Grundy as a ruckman nor Cloke as a forward and while he's still a fine component I don't believe in combination works as well as Cloke/Reid/Grundy/Witts as our forwards and ruckmen.

 

[sr36]

I said my preferred set-up was Keeffe and Reid, no idea where you got the Brown debate from.

Dumb assumption on my behalf. Keeffe and Reid would certainly give us some very good ball use from our tall defenders - but it's a bit lacking defensively.

 

[TradeDraft]

On Grundy and Witts v Grundy and White it will be one of the hot topics for the rest of the season I'm leaning towards the former. Grundy in a similar way to Cloke with Reid in the front half is more effective with Witts in the team as his rucking partner. When Witts takes some of the ruck minutes it allows Grundy more meaningful minutes through the ruck where he can play at full intensity all the time he's in there which is the key. With Witts a capable forward they compliment each other and give the team the right balance when playing in the same team.

Agree, With Witts in the Ruck. Grundy has more Impact on the Game as he is not out there Buggered and can’t put in his 100% efforts.

He might be able to do that in time by himself as the Number 1 ruck but still a fair away from that at this early stage in his Career

 

[sr36]

On Grundy and Witts v Grundy and White it will be one of the hot topics for the rest of the season I'm leaning towards the former. Grundy in a similar way to Cloke with Reid in the front half is more effective with Witts in the team as his rucking partner. When Witts takes some of the ruck minutes it allows Grundy more meaningful minutes through the ruck where he can play at full intensity all the time he's in there which is the key. With Witts a capable forward they compliment each other and give the team the right balance when playing in the same team.

.

If Reid comes back into the forward line, and White plays as the second ruck, he'd be expected to do just as many minutes in the ruck as what Witts is doing. Their job is to give the first ruck a break when he needs it. I don't see what effect it would have on Grundy. The second ruck is going to have to play a combination of ruck and forward. The question is whether you'd prefer Witts's superior ruckwork or White's superior forward work. The other factor is that the way he is going, Witts may overtake Grundy as the first ruck

It'll be nice if all 5 of Cloke, White, Witts, Reid and Grundy are fit at the same time and the selectors have to make a decision.

 

[eddiebankbalance]

 

[Knightmare]

If Reid comes back into the forward line, and White plays as the second ruck, he'd be expected to do just as many minutes in the ruck as what Witts is doing. Their job is to give the first ruck a break when he needs it. I don't see what effect it would have on Grundy. The second ruck is going to have to play a combination of ruck and forward. The question is whether you'd prefer Witts's superior ruckwork or White's superior forward work. The other factor is that the way he is going, Witts may overtake Grundy as the first ruck

It'll be nice if all 5 of Cloke, White, Witts, Reid and Grundy are fit at the same time and the selectors have to make a decision.

Grundy is still the better tap ruckman. Witts has no leap and doesn't yet have the smarts to get the hitouts through the ruck relying on his followup work whereas Grundy is already a pretty good tap ruckman and also really follows up exceptionally well also.

I'd look for Grundy to play roughly 60% ruck minutes. That leaves 40% for Witts/White. Witts is the better ruckman with his followup work incredible and he's a threat in the front half with his contested marking and 1v1 marking improving to go along with his ability on the lead he was showing already last year and he's a much better tackler than White so he'd be my pick of the two.

I don't see room for the five (Cloke, Reid, Grundy, Witts and White) and frankly picking a "best 22" White wouldn't be in it. Like Brown he's capable, and there is nothing wrong with playing him in the senior side when you need to but there are at least 22 I'd evaluate anyway as being better than both Brown and White keeping them out of our fully healthy best side.