Opinion Our crisis of confidence, and the role of supporters.

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lewdogs

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Jun 4, 2008
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It appears to me that we have a crisis of confidence at the club. The telling moments last week were Webster and Ross's errors near the goal-line that both cost goals. Both players were unsure of themselves and what to do - these are two players that are better than that, but didn't have the belief or confidence to make the right decision.

This seems to be a huge problem in the senior team. The amount of handballs and kicks that we had smothered last week was incredible; on top of that we continue to make simple errors. The goal-kicking woes have been there for a long time now - again, I believe it's a confidence and belief issue just as much as technique.

Our supporter base have grown weary. We define the term "long-suffering fan" - we've seen that many heartbreaking losses that we should be terminal, but we bounce back and keep going. There is a problem at the moment though; we've been out of the finals for a long time, and many thought this would be the year we'd be heading back to September. Now that that appears not to be the case, many fans are angry and taking it out on the coach and players.

The problem with this is that it only makes the situation worse. We are a relatively small supporter base, so the noise that we make is even more exacerbated. When we bag our players and coach, they hear it, and it's personal.

How are we ever going to get through these confidence issues if the club are constantly being told how s**t they are BY THEIR OWN SUPPORTERS? We as supporters need to band together right now and get behind the club and players - many of these guys are young, they are still working out their own particular playing style and where they fit within the team and the AFL system in general.

I'm not saying we can't be critical at all - that's one of the things these forums are for. But we need to tone down our abuse. There is a difference between saying:
- "Player X had a poor game, he's just not offering much at the moment and should be dropped" and
- "Player X is a s**t-kicker with a heart the size of a pea and I hope he never pulls on the jumper again"

The same goes with the abuse of the coaching staff and administration. It's unnecessary and ultimately unhelpful, and potentially detrimental.

At the start of this season I was perusing the predictions of many footy experts. Barely a single one had us making the finals. To put that in perspective, our start has been poor, but we are a young side that not many had in the top 8 this season. We are still learning our craft.

It is up to us as supporters to get behind the team now and try to help them turn around this season. If you are one to go to the games and bag out our own players and coach then I say stay at home. If you need to come online and have a go at the players, at least try to make it constructive and not personal.

I am heading down to Melbourne for the next two games and will be making a conscious effort to be supportive in the hope of grabbing a win against the grain. As supporters, we can help our side to get over this crisis of confidence.

And I'm not writing off 2018 just yet. Go Saints!
 
"we've been out of the finals for a long time, and many thought this would be the year we'd be heading back to September."

You are seriously kidding aren't you?

Look at 2017. How many games did we win in 2017 when Riewoldt and Joey weren't playing? I'd say it was 0. Big fat ZERO.

Only a moron thought we'd get better in 2018 having let 2 of our Top 5 players go.

What did the team do in 2017 after beating Richmond?

Nothing. They're still doing nothing. I'm really not sure what they were so happy about. They smashed a long-suffering club in the middle of the 2017 season.

So what?

It's a lack of leadership from the top.

The buck stops with Richo. Who's decision was it to say goodbye to both Roo & Joey in one go when the team so obviously lacks other leadership?
 
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I understand some of what you are saying and despite all the angst among us as fans right now I'd never expect people to go to games purely to pay out on our players.

What you have to understand is the club came out and categorically said they had a plan which they thought would see us competing in finals and pushing for a premiership berth between 2018-2020. They also promised that they would use all this cap space they have to lure great players to our club.

When a club states this and fails to deliver on both, fans are understandably going to be fired up when their grand plan seems to be actually going in the other direction. As fans you can't just sit back and say 'she'll be right' because 'she won't be right' you haven't delivered and that's not on the fans that's on the club not doing their due diligence to make sure these plans are delivered.
 

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Good thread.

I have lowered my expectations so I’ll just enjoy any win at this stage. 2014 type expectation.

Boys need to regain confidence & that isn’t an easy thing to recapture. 4th youngest list in the league, I think people forget that tbh.

I don’t think the club should’ve said this list can win the premiership this year as we are still gelling & trying to get that synergy.

Carn the ******* Saints! I wouldn’t change it for the world.
 
It appears to me that we have a crisis of confidence at the club. The telling moments last week were Webster and Ross's errors near the goal-line that both cost goals.

Really - you are talking about day to day on field performance. That is the least of our issues at the moment.

St Kilda fans want a premiership and 5 years ago the club told us we would be ready to challenge again about now. We are not. In fact we are closer to challenging for the bottom 4 than the top 4. In the same period Essendon have had their drug scandal, been banned from drafts but have a better loking list that us. Bulldogs have won a premiership, Tigers have won a premership - both clubs that were thereabouts with us in 2012. Hawks have been down, now on the way back up. Cats have maintained the rage etc etc etc. Right now. Saints are looking to have the worst perfomed club 2011 - 2020 in the bag.

And here we are talking about Ross's error near the goal line!!

Where is the club in all this? In my view we need a top to bottom review. Questions need to be asked and answered about our financial performance, qualitty of the football departmemt, RECRUITING, administration and the quality of the people running the club.

In my view, St Kilda supporters on BigFooty would have done a better job of recruiting over the past 6 years. How did we go from recodninsing we needed an injection of pace in 2010 (Andrew Lovett) to recruiting for slowness. After being called out as having one of the worst recruiting periods in the history of the game (2008 - 2010), how did we manage to almost match it over the next 7 years?

How did we move from Moorabin to Seaford to Moorabin again.

How is our CEO role on such high rotation? Fraser - Nettlefold - Finnis?

How did we let Ross Lyon go and how did we appoint Scott Watters?

The club needs to come out and explain what has happened the past 7 years.
 
Tremendous post lewdogs

I sometimes wonder, while others blame players and coaches for our shortcomings, if it's we, the fans to blame.

In an era of equalisation, not all is equal.
Essendon can turn Etihad into a home ground advantage, 40,000+ screaming jerks, influencing the weak umpires decisions, inspiring their players to believe and fight hard.

Meanwhile we scrape in 19k, we have the quietest crowd in the AFL, our cheersquad is the most pitiful in victoria, by number and attitude.

All our fans want to do in general is complain, and boo McCartin who is a kid finding his feet. How are any of these kids supposed to build confidence when they look out and see a half empty stadium.
 
As for the rebuild.
The road to 18 was a PR stunt.
I remember when Judd went to Carlton he was on the front page with a bunch of cups, headline was they were gonna win 2 in the next 5 years... How did that go?
The tigers had many "5 year plans" and a few 7 year plans in the last 30 years before they got it right. (PS that team wouldn't have been top 4 in 2010).

Anyone who took the road to 18 as a promise and is now demanding satisfaction is a ******* idiot basically.
 
Really - you are talking about day to day on field performance. That is the least of our issues at the moment.

St Kilda fans want a premiership and 5 years ago the club told us we would be ready to challenge again about now. We are not. In fact we are closer to challenging for the bottom 4 than the top 4. In the same period Essendon have had their drug scandal, been banned from drafts but have a better loking list that us. Bulldogs have won a premiership, Tigers have won a premership - both clubs that were thereabouts with us in 2012. Hawks have been down, now on the way back up. Cats have maintained the rage etc etc etc. Right now. Saints are looking to have the worst perfomed club 2011 - 2020 in the bag.

And here we are talking about Ross's error near the goal line!!

Where is the club in all this? In my view we need a top to bottom review. Questions need to be asked and answered about our financial performance, qualitty of the football departmemt, RECRUITING, administration and the quality of the people running the club.

In my view, St Kilda supporters on BigFooty would have done a better job of recruiting over the past 6 years. How did we go from recodninsing we needed an injection of pace in 2010 (Andrew Lovett) to recruiting for slowness. After being called out as having one of the worst recruiting periods in the history of the game (2008 - 2010), how did we manage to almost match it over the next 7 years?

How did we move from Moorabin to Seaford to Moorabin again.

How is our CEO role on such high rotation? Fraser - Nettlefold - Finnis?

How did we let Ross Lyon go and how did we appoint Scott Watters?

The club needs to come out and explain what has happened the past 7 years.
Completely disagree with this. The administration is the most settled and sensible it's been in years - it's the on-field performance that has everyone spitting the dummy.
 
Completely disagree with this. The administration is the most settled and sensible it's been in years - it's the on-field performance that has everyone spitting the dummy.

I don't care how settled and comfortable they are. I want to know how things have gone so wrong over the past 7 years. How have clubs like Tigers, Dogs, Bombers and potentially even Roos whipped past us in that last year or two? What happened to being a challenger in 2018?

The club needs to come out and make some statements - about where it is now and where is going and how it is going to get there. The move to Moorabbin is a start (we hope) but the club needs to build a story around it, it needs to get supporters back on board beacuse we are going to end up with crowds in the 15,000s if they continue to let it meander and ignore supporters.
 
It's still a long time till 2020.

Funny when the pitchforks came out good friday (bad friday).
It was "Melb, ess, Carl better lists/closer to a premiership than us".
Well Melb would wanna be, they've been rebuilding since 2000.
Ess and Carlton have both not won a game since then, so they're not too far in front.
2 weeks is a long time in footy.
2 years is longer.

We have good young players, a lot haven't hit their prime yet.
 
Completely disagree with this. The administration is the most settled and sensible it's been in years - it's the on-field performance that has everyone spitting the dummy.
The hierarchy told us on no uncertain terms their 5 year plan in order to see us challenging for a flag again. We are smack bang at the pointy end of that now and as Ricmel just said we are closer to bottoming out than we are topping out, the play of the team is bad and has people spitting the dummy but it is the way the club has publicly stated numerous times that they were building for 2018-2020 as the years the Saints would be knocking on the door that has me pissed, because something clearly isn't right if they felt what we have right now is enough to win a premiership.
 
It appears to me that we have a crisis of confidence at the club. The telling moments last week were Webster and Ross's errors near the goal-line that both cost goals. Both players were unsure of themselves and what to do - these are two players that are better than that, but didn't have the belief or confidence to make the right decision.

This seems to be a huge problem in the senior team. The amount of handballs and kicks that we had smothered last week was incredible; on top of that we continue to make simple errors. The goal-kicking woes have been there for a long time now - again, I believe it's a confidence and belief issue just as much as technique.

Our supporter base have grown weary. We define the term "long-suffering fan" - we've seen that many heartbreaking losses that we should be terminal, but we bounce back and keep going. There is a problem at the moment though; we've been out of the finals for a long time, and many thought this would be the year we'd be heading back to September. Now that that appears not to be the case, many fans are angry and taking it out on the coach and players.

The problem with this is that it only makes the situation worse. We are a relatively small supporter base, so the noise that we make is even more exacerbated. When we bag our players and coach, they hear it, and it's personal.

How are we ever going to get through these confidence issues if the club are constantly being told how s**t they are BY THEIR OWN SUPPORTERS? We as supporters need to band together right now and get behind the club and players - many of these guys are young, they are still working out their own particular playing style and where they fit within the team and the AFL system in general.

I'm not saying we can't be critical at all - that's one of the things these forums are for. But we need to tone down our abuse. There is a difference between saying:
- "Player X had a poor game, he's just not offering much at the moment and should be dropped" and
- "Player X is a s**t-kicker with a heart the size of a pea and I hope he never pulls on the jumper again"

The same goes with the abuse of the coaching staff and administration. It's unnecessary and ultimately unhelpful, and potentially detrimental.

At the start of this season I was perusing the predictions of many footy experts. Barely a single one had us making the finals. To put that in perspective, our start has been poor, but we are a young side that not many had in the top 8 this season. We are still learning our craft.

It is up to us as supporters to get behind the team now and try to help them turn around this season. If you are one to go to the games and bag out our own players and coach then I say stay at home. If you need to come online and have a go at the players, at least try to make it constructive and not personal.

I am heading down to Melbourne for the next two games and will be making a conscious effort to be supportive in the hope of grabbing a win against the grain. As supporters, we can help our side to get over this crisis of confidence.

And I'm not writing off 2018 just yet. Go Saints!

Brilliant thread, brilliant post. Expect to be shot down.

Hysterical people make hysterical comments because they are hysterical in nature.

Always was... Always will be.

Peace.
 
Brilliant thread, brilliant post. Expect to be shot down.

Hysterical people make hysterical comments because they are hysterical in nature.

Always was... Always will be.

Peace.
Eco bro. Eco.
 

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The hierarchy told us on no uncertain terms their 5 year plan in order to see us challenging for a flag again. We are smack bang at the pointy end of that now and as Ricmel just said we are closer to bottoming out than we are topping out, the play of the team is bad and has people spitting the dummy but it is the way the club has publicly stated numerous times that they were building for 2018-2020 as the years the Saints would be knocking on the door that has me pissed, because something clearly isn't right if they felt what we have right now is enough to win a premiership.
So you anger clearly comes down to your expectations v reality. That's ok.
 
I’m hoping that the club provides some transparency soon around what is actually happening inside the club and how this is translating to things happening on the field. Surely they can see the discontent on Social Media, which whilst social media is generally angry - this is worse than normal. Worse than the social media flaming is the 19,000 attendance at a home game on a Saturday night. This is is really poor and should have alarm bells ringing at the club. Unless we do something soon the momentum that the membership team has gained over the last few years getting us up to 40k in record time will go backwards.

Whilst the Road to 2020 (or was it 2018?) was a great marketing ploy at the time and got people to sign up and come on the journey when we had bottomed out, it is damaging us at the moment and I’d be happy with the club coming out and saying that they have misjudged where our list is at and over estimated that we should harbour aspirations of playing finals / having a crack at a premiership this year.

We have the 4th youngest list in the comp and the 2nd least experienced. These 2 stats in themselves are enough for the club to come out and say that the rebuilding process has not went completely to plan. This is evidenced in 3 main areas:
  • We have not been able to attract the level of talent in FA that we had hoped, this was always out of our control but we had hoped to capitalise here (it should be noted though that no elite player we would be interested in (midfielders) has used FA to go to another club since we started our 'attack' on it - all have remained with their teams).
  • Our 2014 drafting where we had the no 1 pick was crucial and our future ‘pillars’ in Paddy and Hugh have had a really rough run of luck with injuries so their development is behind where expected.
  • As a group we have actually improved our ladder position quicker than we expected which meant we did not have access to top 3 draft picks for very long – we probably improved to the detriment of our rebuilding plan.

So whilst we are behind where we hoped to be, all is not lost.

The positives are that we have a core group of very talented players that are at the right age profile. Billings, Sinclair, Gresham, Acres, Dunstan, Steele, Membrey.

We also have a group of players the next tier down that look very promising and can make the grade. Long, Coffield, Clark, Marshall, Battle. I'm not sure where to put McCartin.

Seb Ross is still only 24 years old and Jake Carlisle 26, both could have another 5-8 years of top level footy. Steven 28 could still be at his best for another 5.

We don’t need to rip this list up and start again but we need to set expectations of where it is at so that the fans will have a bit more patience.
 
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As for the rebuild.
The road to 18 was a PR stunt.
I remember when Judd went to Carlton he was on the front page with a bunch of cups, headline was they were gonna win 2 in the next 5 years... How did that go?
The tigers had many "5 year plans" and a few 7 year plans in the last 30 years before they got it right. (PS that team wouldn't have been top 4 in 2010).

Anyone who took the road to 18 as a promise and is now demanding satisfaction is a ******* idiot basically.
If you'd asked every club 5 years ago where they are aiming to be in 2018, they all would have said top 4. I took it with a grain of salt at the time.
 
So you anger clearly comes down to your expectations v reality. That's ok.
Absolutely, it isn't the players fault in my opinion, obviously something is going on with the way they are being trained as they all got drafted they can clearly kick a football....

The club promising an outcome and doing not a whole lot in order to deliver that is my main issue.
 
Tremendous post lewdogs

How are any of these kids supposed to build confidence when they look out and see a half empty stadium.

Seriously?

How many folks turn up to Giants games each week? A pittance - and yet a club with no support (which according to you means that the players won't be inspired to perform) has made 2 Preliminary Finals in the last 2 years.

And if you say "high draft picks" - I'll spew up. What's that got to do with the character of a player to perform regardless of circumstance?

NAUGHT.
 
our cheersquad is the most pitiful in victoria, by number and attitude.
I wonder what has happened there.....they certainly aren't as loud as last year......or is that just my imagination.

One thing I did love on Sat night was the huge flag in the cheer squad that had the big St.K stick man in black against a white background with a red halo.

Looked awesome from where we were sitting.
 
The hierarchy told us on no uncertain terms their 5 year plan in order to see us challenging for a flag again. We are smack bang at the pointy end of that now and as Ricmel just said we are closer to bottoming out than we are topping out, the play of the team is bad and has people spitting the dummy but it is the way the club has publicly stated numerous times that they were building for 2018-2020 as the years the Saints would be knocking on the door that has me pissed, because something clearly isn't right if they felt what we have right now is enough to win a premiership.

What do you think Ameet Bains thought about how the club would perform in 2018? I'm guessing he saw the writing all over the wall!
 
"we've been out of the finals for a long time, and many thought this would be the year we'd be heading back to September."

You are seriously kidding aren't you?

Look at 2017. How many games did we win in 2017 when Riewoldt and Joey weren't playing? I'd say it was 0. Big fat ZERO.

Only a moron thought we'd get better in 2018 having let 2 of our Top 5 players go.

What did the team do in 2017 after beating Richmond?

Nothing. They're still doing nothing. I'm really not sure what they were so happy about. They smashed a long-suffering club in the middle of the 2017 season.

So what?

It's a lack of leadership from the top.

The buck stops with Richo. Who's decision was it to say goodbye to both Roo & Joey in one go when the team so obviously lacks other leadership?
The Lions win was the first we had achieved without Roo or Joey for something like 15 years.

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
We have good young players, a lot haven't hit their prime yet.
Absolutely St Kilda Death.....a long long way to go yet before we start throwing grenades at the club.

We just need cool calm heads at the moment.
 

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