Our Current Back 6

[Harris 10]

is it safe to assume they would of looked and analysed the melbourne model where by they recruited two made defenders May/Lever? Thats what needs to happen. The age profile will be out. Need to recruit from other clubs.

The biggest recruit Melbourne ever got was Yze by a big margin.

He redesigned everything on field, ball movement, structure at stoppages and behind the ball.

 

[Themanbun]

is it safe to assume they would of looked and analysed the melbourne model where by they recruited two made defenders May/Lever? Thats what needs to happen. The age profile will be out. Need to recruit from other clubs.

Maybe but we only knew the Melbourne model worked late last year. Every time they mention anything resembling a model the cite Brisbane, who haven't got past a prelim yet.

 

[DuckYeah]

The biggest recruit Melbourne ever got was Yze by a big margin.

He redesigned everything on field, ball movement, structure at stoppages and behind the ball.

Oh absolutely, we have an endless list of s**t that must improve. On field its defence and off its someone who can drill a ******* workable game plan.

 

[Passmore]

Who does Skinner make Ross Glendinning like?

A cross between Wayne Carey and Ross Glendinning.

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[Themanbun]

To appease internet list managers?

I like your posting pretty generally mate so don't think this too harshly. But I just feel I need to call this sentence out.

As forum goers commenting about our club, we are all internet list managers, internet coaches, etc. We're not cheerleaders, but friends who have gotten together to discuss our team.

And I don't think the criticism from 'internet list managers' is misplaced.

We should be dead last for the second year running. Bottom 3 for the third consecutive year. We have, I think, the worst percentage in the league. We looked horrid against Hawthorn. We looked horrid against a sub standard West Coast. We were close to the worst I have ever seen us against Brisbane. We turned up for 3 quarters against Sydney and 1 against the Bulldogs. This was despite us showing steps to be more competitive last year yet we seem to have gone backwards. We're at the point where our supporters are crying 'conspiracy' if we don't get a handout top 2 pick from the AFL for being as bad as we are. While other clubs have just gotten on with their rebuilds and are visibly progressing. Our 5 year rebuild is looking more like an 8 year one. We're already saying Corr won't be around when we contend, soon we'll be saying Jy won't be around and the cycle begins anew.

Clubs which started their rebuilds just before us (Freo, Sydney) have not looked quite as bad as we do now. Clubs which started their rebuilds at the same time as us (Hawthorn, Adelaide - let's not pretend we weren't sitting around during 2020 saying how Adelaide are a year or two behind us) or even just after us, look way ahead on the development curve and are now competitive as *.

There is nothing to suggest our list managers are doing a good job at this stage. We're the worst team in the league. The guy running our list management has no prior history for us to go off, and the guy overseeing him helped build a West Coast list that won a flag but which we have seen had major, major holes in it and shortly after became a rabble. If it weren't for Tom Powell in particular, then trading out of 2019 pick 8, one of our new crew's first moves, was also pretty damn bad, and was a mere 12 months away from being one of the biggest self-owns I've ever seen in future pick swapping.

We are currently running around with sub standard key position defenders, and people who questioned the club in a place designed specifically for that were spoken down to because a Cat B rookie who never played KPD was allegedly all the depth we needed in that area.

People are allowed to call this out and float options as to what could have been done. We are a horrid football side.

I am confident we will get better at some point, but I cannot accept that supporters on this forum shouldn't be able to question the decisions those in charge are making, when we've been one of the worst teams in the comp for 3 years running, and that's not even mentioning that we've actually kinda been building for a rebuild from the 2017-18 drafts, not 2020-21.

If we can't question the expertise of our football dept. when we are the worst side in the comp for several years, when can we?

 

[Waussie]

The lack of a reserves KPD will also seriously mess with the development of our smaller defenders in the VFL, too. They'll be drawn to the contest to chop out more than they should be and that will hamper their ability to spread, drive and rebound.

This

 

[Passmore]

I like your posting pretty generally mate so don't think this too harshly. But I just feel I need to call this sentence out.

As forum goers commenting about our club, we are all internet list managers, internet coaches, etc. We're not cheerleaders, but friends who have gotten together to discuss our team.

And I don't think the criticism from 'internet list managers' is misplaced.

We should be dead last for the second year running. Bottom 3 for the third consecutive year. We have, I think, the worst percentage in the league. We looked horrid against Hawthorn. We looked horrid against a sub standard West Coast. We were close to the worst I have ever seen us against Brisbane. We turned up for 3 quarters against Sydney and 1 against the Bulldogs. This was despite us showing steps to be more competitive last year yet we seem to have gone backwards. We're at the point where our supporters are crying 'conspiracy' if we don't get a handout top 2 pick from the AFL for being as bad as we are. While other clubs have just gotten on with their rebuilds and are visibly progressing.

Clubs which started their rebuilds just before us (Freo, Sydney) have not looked quite as bad as we do now. Clubs which started their rebuilds at the same time as us (Hawthorn, Adelaide - let's not pretend we weren't sitting around during 2020 saying how Adelaide are a year or two behind us) or even just after us, look way ahead on the development curve and are now competitive as fu**.

There is nothing to suggest our list managers are doing a good job at this stage. We're the worst team in the league. The guy running our list management has no prior history for us to go off, and the guy overseeing him helped build. West Coast list that won a flag but which we have seen had major, major holes in it and shortly after became a rabble.

We are currently running around with sub standard key position defenders, and people who questioned the club in a place designed specifically for that were spoken down to because a Cat B rookie who never played KPD was allegedly all the depth we needed in that area.

People are allowed to call this out and float options as to what could have been done. We are a horrid football side.

I am confident we will get better at some point, but I cannot accept that supporters on this forum shouldn't be able to question the decisions those in charge are making, when we've been one of the worst teams in the comp for 3 years running, and that's not even mentioning that we've actually kinda been building for a rebuild from the 2017-18 drafts, not 2020-21.

If we can't question the expertise of our football dept. when we are the worst side in the comp for several years, when can we?

Mate, we can all question and call out the club, and we can call out each other. It's what we have the forum for.

As long as it's civilised.

I think it's way too early to be canning decision made. I could be wrong, others could be wrong.

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[Devil Fish]

Basically our back 6 now that averages over 100 points against each week!




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It's certainly the worst back 6 I've seen as a NM supporter.

 

[Groucho]

I love Taz as much as any other NM supporter but he’s getting pants this year, just can’t go with the mobile forwards.

Hate to say it but his goose could be cooked, if he was playing for us he would look 10 times as worse and our supporters would be cursing that we didn’t let him go..

Sad but true

 

[leighlee13]

I love Taz as much as any other NM supporter but he’s getting pants this year, just can’t go with the mobile forwards.

Hate to say it but his goose could be cooked, if he was playing for us he would look 10 times as worse and our supporters would be cursing that we didn’t let him go..

I could be wrong but maybe Robbie isnt as happy at Richmond as he thought he would be and could that be effecting his performance because as you say, he isnt playing as well at Richmond as he was for us.

 

[MinistryOfMajak]

In my mind two of our three biggest problems stem from our backline: our ball use from defensive 50 and the inability/refusal to stay out of the aerial contest if you aren't required to be in it.

Time after time after time our exits from the defensive 50 are long bombs towards our ruckman, regardless of how many players are in that area or being outnumbered. Whether this stems from a structural or fitness issue causing there to be no other viable options or the players don't have the confidence to attempt more difficult exit kicks, it's hard to know.

It's time we put some good ball users behind the ball. Look at every other good side in the comp and you can name 3 good to elite users in their back half.

Brisbane: Rich, Zorko, Andrews.
Carlton: Docherty, Williams, Saad, Newman.
Freo: Ryan, Young, Chapman.
Geelong: Stewart, Tuohy, Atkins/O'Connor.
Gold Coast: Weller, Powell, Markov, Lukosios (until this season).
GWS: Cumming, Perryman, Whitfield, Haynes.
Hawks: Sicily, Scrimshaw, Jiath, Hardwick.
Melb: May, Rivers, Salem, Bowey.
Sydney: Lloyd, Blakey, Campbell, Rampe.
Bulldogs: Daniel, Williams, Richards, Duryea.

Compare these to our options. Hall and McDonald are about the only two I trust to try and get us out of D50 and they're both inconsistent kicks. Hell, McDonald isn't even a guarantee to line up in our defence.

We need to get this side of things sorted and it needs to be a priority.




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[shinboner magic]

If the list managers can’t find a kpd that’s better than Walker they should pack it in.
Slow, can’t kick and gives zero when ball hits the turf.
Need to trade in one kpd and draft one.
Goater/Bergman look like they have ability to add to Perez
Locks in our defence now are
Corr McKay
Lmac Perez
Gaps aplenty - need to work some magic at trade time.

 

[roos_fanatic08]

Great post.

As a draft watcher, do we have the right recruiting people in place now compared to this trail of massive incompetence?

It's fine getting the picks , but as you have stated , we have had good picks and screwed up plenty of them.

This doesn't even take into account us trading Brown, Tarrant and our likely pick 19/ 20 for next to nothing

I think we have improved slightly in a draft sense over the last few years but the jury is still well and truly out regarding our entire list management strategy.

A couple of questionable picks in recent years include Jack Mahony and Charlie Lazzaro. I don’t mind Mahony, he crack in but we’d been linked to Chad Warner prior to the draft at that pick. Warner would’ve made a lot more sense. Lazzaro was just a weird pick considering we’ve drafted Phillips and Powell the two picks before. He is too similar, but with less point of difference, than the other two. That pick left me shaking my head.

Brady came to the club with this aura of toughness when it came to list management and the trade table. This has proven to be complete fluff with the way we handled the Brown situation and the CCJ trade. You don’t get anywhere by being fair, and we got walked all over by both Melbourne and Richmond. I still think we wouldve got more value out of Brown had we have kept him but the way in which we handled that situation left us with absolutely NO bargaining power which was embarrassing. The less said about the CCJ trade the better, handing over a top 30 pick when we had all the power was just plain stupidity. Huge risk giving up that much draft capital when we had the PSD as the best bargaining tool. Carlton sent an ex first round pick in Jack Martin to the PSD yet we coughed up a 2nd round pick for a fringe tall. Laughable.

 

[ferball]

Carlton got Lewis Young for a bag of chips. Tom McDonald was going for peanuts the year before. Skinner would've been good depth for our ressies as well.

It's a sore topic as well, but we didn't play the Tarrant situation well and I'll leave it at that.

He's an arsey pick. There are probably others around the comp in a similar position but I dunno who they are off the top of my head.

Lets face it tho, no one wanted Tom McDonald at the start of a rebuild. We would have just kept Brown rather than take him. Skinner is a second rate Josh Walker and Tarrant is cooked.

We can draft one as well but we really have 4 opportunities to get a good, cheapish, youngish KPD who is mature and maybe able to come straight in ala Corr. The MSD and Trade/FA periods this year and next year. So draft one and find one some other way, and it would be nice if McGuiness comes on too.

 

[Its a Process]

Wasn't LMac leading the comp for intercepts after the first two rounds? I think he could be a decent intercepting defender and I also have high hopes for Perez in a similar role. We need to also replace Aaron Hall

43

Aaron Hall

Age

33

Ht

185cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.0

5star

K

11.8

4star

HB

7.2

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

3.3

5star

MG

268.3

4star

D

14.9

4star

K

8.9

4star

HB

6.0

3star

M

2.3

2star

T

2.6

4star

MG

268.3

4star

D

13.2

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

3.6

5star

and i am not sure if we have anyone currently who can play this role - we might look to try a Steevo or Powell down there. Jake Lloyd

44

Jake Lloyd

Age

30

Ht

182cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.4

5star

K

14.4

5star

HB

9.0

5star

M

4.3

4star

T

1.9

4star

MG

403.9

5star

D

23.4

5star

K

14.4

5star

HB

9.0

4star

M

4.3

4star

T

1.9

3star

MG

403.9

5star

D

23.2

5star

K

13.4

5star

HB

9.8

5star

M

4.2

4star

T

2.2

4star

MG

357.4

5star

was a ball winning midfielder when playing NEAFL for instance before he got tried down back, Rampe was also a wingman/midfielder when playing VFL/NEAFL.

We have good depth in our forwards (both tall and medium) and id be trialling one of these guys down back for chunks of the 2nd half of the season, starting with Ford and maybe Edwards.

It's obvious we need to trade in another couple of key defenders and i'd be staggered if we aren't doing that this offseason.

 

[ferball]

The “hindsight” card is a cop out to avoid criticism Ferbs. If we can’t review list management decisions on this thread, wtf can we do?

Our back 6 last year was one of the oldest in the competition. I was fine with it for 12 months, as I get that they cannot do everything at once. However, every good premiership side has been built with a group of defenders that come through together for an extended period of time. Melbourne, Richmond, Geelong, West Coast, Hawthorn, Sydney - I can keep going if required. It is absolutely critical to win a premiership, non negotiable.

We have a bandaged up back 6, full of guys either playing out of position or getting ready to retire. The Luff/Rawlings regime have drafted 3 defenders (Perez, Goater & Bergman) in three drafts. They’ve brought in one FA in Corr, who is realistically not going to be around for our genuine contention period.

They have neglected the back 6. Personally I don’t see how even the most rosey bias supporter can argue against that…

See that bolded bit?

WTF? I'm disagreeing with you not censoring you. Nobody thinks the backline is finished. LOL dude....

We don't even know it was a bad trade. Goldy and X could be gone by next season leaving us CCJ and Edwards as rucks. If that happens its a much better decision than it looks now with hindsight. Cos otherwise we'd be looking at Walker and Edwards rucking for us.

Anyway. Who should we have got in last year to fix the backline (besides Goater and Bergman)? Some guy from WA who wants to be in WA with his family or pick from a bunch of spuds who haven't even played a game yet.

BTW Melbourne's backline works cos they traded in two excellent players who dominate down there.

 

[andana]

Look at Fremantle. That’s a side that we are going to be coming up against when we eventually do rise up the ladder. They’ve invested first round picks like Young, Chapman (whilst also investing heavily in the midfield), but have also implemented a defence first system.

It is now starting to click & they are very difficult to score against.

We are the complete f*n opposite & should be concerned about what I think is a reckless approach to our back 6 & defensive system. It needs to stop this year. We need our future backline to have 5 years playing together before we are going to trouble anyone - I’d say we only have 1 lock (McKay) of that back 6 on our list.

fre0 won this weekend without Hamling, Wilson, Hughes, Logue.

 

[Themanbun]

He's an arsey pick. There are probably others around the comp in a similar position but I dunno who they are off the top of my head.

Lets face it tho, no one wanted Tom McDonald at the start of a rebuild. We would have just kept Brown rather than take him. Skinner is a second rate Josh Walker and Tarrant is cooked.

We can draft one as well but we really have 4 opportunities to get a good, cheapish, youngish KPD who is mature and maybe able to come straight in ala Corr. The MSD and Trade/FA periods this year and next year. So draft one and find one some other way, and it would be nice if McGuiness comes on too.

I don't think Lewis Young was an arsey pick. Carlton had two of the better key defenders in the comp and sought him to add depth.

As for McDonald, I was pro-McDonald at the start of the rebuild especially since he was going for loose change.

Skinner would provide us with a KPD in the VFL and provide backup should one of Walker or McKay go down. We currently have bloody Marty Hore as our second KPD in the ressies, and I'm pretty sure he went down with an injury.

These are all guys we wouldn't have had to break the bank to get.

We have straight up neglected that area of our list.

 

[Sphynx]

Cutting off our nose to spite our face, but I’d like to see Curtis Taylor

5

Curtis Taylor

Age

24

Ht

188cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

6.0

1star

K

3.0

1star

HB

3.0

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

2.0

4star

CL

0.0

1star

No current season stats available

D

6.0

2star

K

3.0

1star

HB

3.0

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

2.0

4star

CL

0.0

1star

have a couple of games off half back.

There’s a bit of early Bailey Dale

31

Bailey Dale

Age

27

Ht

188cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.2

3star

K

7.6

3star

HB

5.6

4star

M

3.1

3star

T

1.6

4star

MG

117.4

2star

D

9.0

2star

K

5.1

2star

HB

3.9

3star

M

2.3

2star

T

1.7

3star

MG

117.4

2star

D

8.0

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

3.0

3star

M

1.4

2star

T

2.0

4star

about him, in terms a talented forward, who has shown real promise in midfield and a really good ball user.

He’s going to get more of the ball back there which is only a good thing for the side.

As far as the OP, the KPD situation is a disaster, no two ways about it. It’s now at the point that any draft recruit is going to be really out of sync with the rebuild, they aren’t going to hit their straps for 5 or so years by which point the Simpkin/LDU/Larkey group will be getting towards 30.

I’m sure they might have thought there’d be a FA target at some point in the last 2-3 years, but that’s optimistic given wooden spooners aren’t particular attractive for free agents

 

[ferball]

You'd be lucky as to be able to trade in 1 KPD who makes an AA, you'd have a more likely chance at winning the lottery if you try to do it again in the same era.

Doesn't have to be an AA defender. There'd be what ... at least 35- 60 KPDs in the comp? Two top 10s would be enough to have an effectively functioning backline, with two top 20s for backup...

 

[Themanbun]

Cutting off our nose to spite our face, but I’d like to see Curtis Taylor have a couple of games off half back.

There’s a bit of early Bailey Dale about him, in terms a talented forward, who has shown real promise in midfield and a really good ball user.

He’s going to get more of the ball back there which is only a good thing for the side.

As far as the OP, the KPD situation is a disaster, no two ways about it. It’s now at the point and any recruit is going to be really out of sync with the rebuild, they aren’t going to hit their straps for 5 or so years by which point the Simpkin/LDU/Larkey group will be getting towards 30

Don't disagree re: Curtis although I think he's one of our more mercurial forwards. If the club thinks both Phillips and Powell are going to come on and demand genuine centre square time then they need to start finding out if these 6th/7th/8th/9th in line mids can address our other list deficiencies.

 

[Its a Process]

Cutting off our nose to spite our face, but I’d like to see Curtis Taylor have a couple of games off half back.

There’s a bit of early Bailey Dale about him, in terms a talented forward, who has shown real promise in midfield and a really good ball user.

He’s going to get more of the ball back there which is only a good thing for the side.

As far as the OP, the KPD situation is a disaster, no two ways about it. It’s now at the point and any recruit is going to be really out of sync with the rebuild, they aren’t going to hit their straps for 5 or so years by which point the Simpkin/LDU/Larkey group will be getting towards 30

Surely we are eyeing off another 2-3 free agents or trade targets over the next couple of years, similar to what Melbourne have done and what Richmond did with T Lynch.

 

[StiffArm]

What would it take to pry someone like CJ out of Hawthorn for example?

 

[Sphynx]

Surely we are eyeing off another 2-3 free agents or trade targets over the next couple of years, similar to what Melbourne have done and what Richmond did with T Lynch.

Richmond recruited Tom Lynch after a flag.

You look at all the best FA recruits, they’ve pretty much all gone from bottom sides to top 4 sides.

I’d say we are probably more in danger of losing a quality free agent than gaining one.

 

[Its a Process]

Richmond recruited Tom Lynch after a flag.

You look at all the best FA recruits, they’ve pretty much all gone from bottom sides to top 4 sides.

I’d say we are probably more in danger of losing a quality free agent than gaining one.

May and Lever joined prior to flags. I think we will gradually start to climb the ladder, especially next season.

I think Allir moved to Port when they were fringe 8. Whether or not they turn out be gun players we've been able to recruit Steevo, CCJ and Corr over the last two years despite finishing last and 3rd last. I don't think we will have an issue getting in more talent with our cap space, just a matter of choosing the right options.