Our flavour is vanilla

[Murray2503]

My point is that our club has consistently given us more pleasure over the years than teams like Richmond, or Carlton, or Melbourne (for example) have given to their fans. I agree that a flag is what we all crave. No arguments there. I am as frustrated as anyone at not having achieved that elusive third flag, however a club's overall performance should still be put into context.

View attachment 680721

I understand your point. What this graphs proves is that when the club needs to stand up they go to water. The club has massively underachieved on field and off. We should have a minimum 4 flags by now. Something needs to change.

 

[Canuck_Crow]

Where the club went wrong after 2017 is that they should have taken 1 step back to go 2 forward. Seems a strange philosophy. Not really. An honest evaluation of the grand final should have shown we werent good enough. We lost Cameron and Lever making the decision even easier how to proceed moving forward. What we should have done was trade out older players on the decline with value to draft and trade areas of weakness. We also should have used our first round picks from lever, gov, ladder position etc to get young guns in plus a free agent if possible with the salary cap space created by trading out players. No Gibbs trade by the way. We would have gone backwards but rebounded quickly with this strategy. I know we got in Jones and McHenry who i am happy with but mainly talking about the picks used on gibbs. Anyway we didn't take this course of action but I am bullish anyway we can still rebound quickly next year if we make some hard calls. We need to get the likes of Stengle, McAdam, McHenry, Fogarty in plus keep playing Jones this year. Plus add in a fit Doedee next year plus a gun mid (Pick 1 or 2), a key back (Pick 19 or trade) and a ruckman through smart trading or use of future picks and we can rebound quickly. We have the nucleus of a strong side. We just need the missing parts. For this to happen we must clear as much salary cap space as possible to hang onto players we need and entice players we want.

I find it fascinating looking at the parallels of the crows and the vancouver canucks (who i follow closely) in 2010 the canucks got the grand final for the first time in 20 + years, they had a strong core group of players who were better as whole than as individuals. they ended up loosing game seven at home and following some friendly rioting they got back to the job in 2011 and while they had an amazing year through the regular season it was clear that something was missing, they lacked the grit and polish to get back to the top of the mountain. the owners spent the next 3+ years with a charade of a couple of tweaks will solve everything. Sadly it all went to hell in a hand bag and its only now that they have started to retool properly. But by doubling down on the core players and thinking that they could capture lighting in a bottle again, they ended up putting the team in purgatory. And while the crows look like they are there right now, I see Don Pyke with an eye to the future not just this season, This is rare for a crows coach who is at risk of missing the finals for 2 years running. and call me optimistic but i believe if we can get some games in to the kids this year and next I feel we can push again, but it wont be with tex, betts, jacobs, douglas, mckay, talia, or lynch maybe sloane

I think you are right about what we should have done post 2017. I am curious how the team would look today with a Riley Bonar and Will Powell running around instead of gibbs.

 

[Mike Smyth]

My point is that our club has consistently given us more pleasure over the years than teams like Richmond, or Carlton, or Melbourne (for example) have given to their fans. I agree that a flag is what we all crave. No arguments there. I am as frustrated as anyone at not having achieved that elusive third flag, however a club's overall performance should still be put into context.

View attachment 680721

I wonder how that ladder looks from 2000 to 2019.

 

[Mike Smyth]

I understand your point. What this graphs proves is that when the club needs to stand up they go to water. The club has massively underachieved on field and off. We shuld have a minimum 4 flags by now. Something needs to change.

Like Essendon and North Melbourne, we were great during the 90's and average from 2001 onwards.

 

[PCORF]

I wonder how that ladder looks from 2000 to 2019.

I think Adelaide are 2nd or 3rd on the ladder overall during that time with just a single grand final apperance. While teams like Geelong and Hawthorn have taken advantage.

 

[PCORF]

I understand your point. What this graphs proves is that when the club needs to stand up they go to water. The club has massively underachieved on field and off. We shuld have a minimum 4 flags by now. Something needs to change.

Adelaide may have been a very different team if luck went their way in 2005 or 2006. Could have easily won 4 by now.

 

[ABAB]

My point is that our club has consistently given us more pleasure over the years than teams like Richmond, or Carlton, or Melbourne (for example) have given to their fans. I agree that a flag is what we all crave. No arguments there. I am as frustrated as anyone at not having achieved that elusive third flag, however a club's overall performance should still be put into context.

View attachment 680721

That's exactly the argument I had with him in the past, would you rather support a team that has been crap for 10-15 years (imagine supporting them year in year out knowing your team is crap and won't play finals) and you just happen to snag a premiership and then go back to being crap for 10-15 years or what the Crows has achieved by being up there year in year out to build a list to really contend for the premiership every 5-6 years.

Yes, we weren't good enough or lucky enough to win it in 2005/06, 2012 and 2017 but everyone knows winning the premiership are hard, that's why there is only one winner at the end of the season, we are one of the most successfully AFL clubs in the league both on and off the field.

 

[ABAB]

I wonder how that ladder looks from 2000 to 2019.

Still very good, don't you remember where we finished in 2005/06, 2012 and 2017 after the H&A but we definitely should have took one of those chances, Hentschel doing an ACL was a big lost in 2006, losing by a point in 2012 at the MCG to the Hawks in the preliminary final and then Smith to an ACL in 2017 in the finals.

 

[1970crow]

We're another 3 or 4 years off I reckon. First we have to clear out the dead wood then get the new wood bedded in.

I feel like we're in a similar place to AFC circa 2013-14 waiting for some retirements to allow the playing group to rejuvenate

This is what I like about Hawthorn. As successful as they’ve been they’ve still moved on key players from their flags when the time comes. Our senior players stay for as long as they want.

 

[Mike Smyth]

This is what I like about Hawthorn. As successful as they’ve been they’ve still moved on key players from their flags when the time comes. Our senior players stay for as long as they want.

And the players they moved on were all champions whereas we tend to limp average senior players to 200+ games when they are well past their use by date.

 

[SaltPeter]

What do you expect when your football department is full of Neil Craig disciples, most of whom have never tasted success even at state league level.

Don Pyke - 2 x GF winner WCE
Scott Camporeale - 1 x GF winner Carlton
Ben Hart - 2 x GF winner AFC
Marty Mattner - 1 x GF winner Sydney - Premiership coach Sturt
Mick Goden - Premiership coach WWT

That was off of the top of my head, there's probably more if I could be bothered doing a little research

 

[pjcrows]

Don Pyke - 2 x GF winner WCE
Scott Camporeale - 1 x GF winner Carlton
Ben Hart - 2 x GF winner AFC
Marty Mattner - 1 x GF winner Sydney - Premiership coach Sturt
Mick Goden - Premiership coach WWT

That was off of the top of my head, there's probably more if I could be bothered doing a little research

Paul Thomas - 6x SANFL Premierships, 4 as captain

 

[SydCrow]

Don Pyke - 2 x GF winner WCE
Scott Camporeale - 1 x GF winner Carlton
Ben Hart - 2 x GF winner AFC
Marty Mattner - 1 x GF winner Sydney - Premiership coach Sturt
Mick Goden - Premiership coach WWT

That was off of the top of my head, there's probably more if I could be bothered doing a little research

And Craig retired Hart and delisted Mattner

 

[Scrogdogg]

We're another 3 or 4 years off I reckon. First we have to clear out the dead wood then get the new wood bedded in.

I feel like we're in a similar place to AFC circa 2013-14 waiting for some retirements to allow the playing group to rejuvenate

I've been reading this sort of comment on BF for years and years........just sayin'

 

[mattymac]

I've been reading this sort of comment on BF for years and years........just sayin'

Yeah my post was just a flippant guess. Now I've given it some thought, I think it will be significantly longer. Probably more like 2025 onwards.

Looking at our list now, these are the over 30s. You can delist all of them immediately and no oppo would notice. None of them will be here next time round and none are glorious leader types with excellent traits to pass on like composure or decision making:



Next you have the late 20s group. They were in their prime when we made the GF. None will be here when we next challenge. One has excellent traits and is worth holding onto as a leader.



Next you have those in their prime. They should be challenging for a flag now. This is most of our back line, which is a worry. Probably none will still be around when we next challenge, in no small measure because they're a fairly brittle lot and I can't see their bodies holding up to the level required at 31+ years old.



Next you have our core. These will be the ones who will have to be the life blood of our side if we are to be challenging again in 4 years:



The cupboard is pretty bare. Laird, the Crouch brothers and Doedee. They're not enough to carry us to a flag. Doesn't help that none of them can kick or make a sound decision except Doedee.

So, if we push the window out to 5 to 7 years we've got Doedee who will still be 28 and likely still going strong. The Crouch boys and Laird will be in their 30s. The core of the team will have to come from:



Milera, McPherson (if he can stay get on the park), Fogarty and Butts could form a nice spine and peak together, but it's purely speculative at this point. It's not quite like you used to be able to look at Dangerfield, Sloane, Walker and Talia and say "yep, that's a deadly spine when they hit their peak".

Then of course you've got the kids but they must be top secret because we keep them under wraps:



So, all in all it's the Milera-Fogarty generation who are our next hope. We need to surround them with more quality. Rankine and Lukosius for example.

We should be able to fashion a midfield out of Milera, Galluci, Jones, McHenry over time but will also need to dig up at least one dirty grunt inside hunter to replace the Crouch boys by then.