Our forward line Strucutre

[WaynesWorld19]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
How is Shirley better midfielder than Stenglein??????

After one quiet season from Stenglein and half a good season from Shirley we label Stenglein as not a good midfielder and we put Shirley in the midfield.

Shirley is not as good a tagger as Stenglein especially on bigger midfielders. He tends to go well in a half of footy then get tashed after half time. Quite frankly, I would choose Stenglein over Shirley every time.

Burns further up the field is the greatest illusion known to a man. He is not a midfielder. He has pace BUT he burns the ball whenever he gets it further up the field. His best work is done out of a forward pocket.

I can't understand how people (read coaching staff) don't recognise that it DOESN'T work.

Either Shirley on Stenglein in the side. They cannot both co-exists in the same side. We have hentschel to groom to take over from Nigel. Also Jericho would be better option to groom to take over from Nige, than Stenglein.

To quote a phrase; your only as good as your last game. We don't know how the players are going to perform this year, so our opinions are based on recent history.
On that basis, yes i prefer Shirley as a midfielder to Stenglein. As a 190cm player, who has learnt the game as a tagger, he should now move into our defence (or is he going to be a tagger for the next 7 years?). Remember with Shirley, he came into the side after half a season with the Eagles, his match conditioning for AFL football would have been well down. Not surprisingly his fitness levels in games would drop off - he'll be much better this year for that experience.
Stenglein has shown he can play tall and small as a tagger, I would actually prefer Stenglein alongside a new FB on the last line ( bassett ?), maybe Parker or Hudson? just throwing up names because there's no obvious choice.

With Burns, I think the coaching staff see it the way I do. Yes he holds the ball, draws defenders to him, yes gets caught or turns the ball over, but also he is a playmaker and a gamewinner.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Wayne's-World
With Burns, I think the coaching staff see it the way I do. Yes he holds the ball, draws defenders to him, yes gets caught or turns the ball over, but also he is a playmaker and a gamewinner.

That my friend is the funniest thing I have heard in years. As I said in the other thread, Ronnie can be a match winner as a forward pocket, he is as bad a midfielder as one David Gallagher.

Ronnie a playmaker?????? You have got to be kidding. He doesn't know th emeaning of the word.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
That my friend is the funniest thing I have heard in years. As I said in the other thread, Ronnie can be a match winner as a forward pocket, he is as bad a midfielder as one David Gallagher.

Ronnie a playmaker?????? You have got to be kidding. He doesn't know th emeaning of the word.

We'll have to agree to disagree on Ronnie.
IMO he was hopeless in his last season with Geelong, looked totally disinterested. His season with us last year was similar to Careys, hot and very cold.
But I'll stand by my comments - he'll either be very good for us, or your comments will be vindicated.
The actions of the coaches thus far tend to support my view.

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Wayne's-World
The actions of the coaches thus far tend to support my view.

That doesn't make it right. We all know how dumb and stubborn our coaching staff can be. Ronnie can be a match winner in the forward pocket bur as a midfielder he is as useless as David Gallagher was.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
That doesn't make it right. We all know how dumb and stubborn our coaching staff can be. Ronnie can be a match winner in the forward pocket bur as a midfielder he is as useless as David Gallagher was.

Now Stiffy in the thread "ranking players for 2004" did you not make the following comments?

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Dogga
1 Ricciuto
2 McLeod
3 Carey
4 Burton
5 Goodwin
6 Edwards
7 M Stevens
8 John(ock
9 Hart
10 Welsh
11 McGregor
12 Biglands
13 Bode
14 Smart
15 Stenglein
16 Clarke
17 Bassett
18 Torney
19 Shirley
20 Perrie
21 Massie
22 Reilly
23 Ladhams
24 Begley
25 Burns
26 Schuback
27 Hudson
28 Watts
29 S Stevens
30 Hentschel
31 Skipworth
32 Rutten
33 Gallagher
34 Doughty
35 Bock
36 Krueger
37 Mattner
38 Jericho
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

.
Quote from Stiffy
This is the best rating I have seen here. I would move Krueger to Skipworth's spot and shift everyone down one spot.

I know McLeod is a freak but I cannot understand how is he more important to our team than Roo. Bunji drifts in and out of the games too often for me to rank him at #1. Roo is consistent and you always know what you are going to get from him. With McLeod its not as straight forward as that.

I think you agreed with having Burns ranked over Schuback, Hentschell, Skipworth....
Whats changed your view?

 

[Stiffy_18]

Originally posted by Wayne's-World
Now Stiffy in the thread "ranking players for 2004" did you not make the following comments?

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Dogga
1 Ricciuto
2 McLeod
3 Carey
4 Burton
5 Goodwin
6 Edwards
7 M Stevens
8 John(ock
9 Hart
10 Welsh
11 McGregor
12 Biglands
13 Bode
14 Smart
15 Stenglein
16 Clarke
17 Bassett
18 Torney
19 Shirley
20 Perrie
21 Massie
22 Reilly
23 Ladhams
24 Begley
25 Burns
26 Schuback
27 Hudson
28 Watts
29 S Stevens
30 Hentschel
31 Skipworth
32 Rutten
33 Gallagher
34 Doughty
35 Bock
36 Krueger
37 Mattner
38 Jericho
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I think you agreed with having Burns ranked over Schuback, Hentschell, Skipworth....
Whats changed your view?

The fact that I quoted someone means that I couldn't be stuffed doing my own ratings.

As I said Burns as a FP can be a match winner but we are playing him makes him inefective hence his rating is dropping down the order. I would still play Schuey, Skippy and Hentsch before him for a number of reasons.

1) they are not one dimesional
2) they are the future of the club Ronnie is in his last season
3) they need game time.

Face the facts that Ronnie is finished and his efforts a midfielder are pathetic to say the least. I just cannot comprehend that you actually think playing him in the midfield has some merit.

 

[macca23]

I can't answer for Stiffy, but here's where I ranked Burns importance to the side this year, by comparison to last year.

29 Burns -(20)
30 Doughty -(21)
31 Krueger -
32 Hudson -
33 Skipworth-
34 Bock -(33)
35 Rutten -(28)
36 Mattner -(24)
37 Jericho -
38 Gallagher-(27)

If I were to do it again today, Burns would drop even lower as Hudson would go in front of him in my rankings and I'd have a good think about Skippy and Gallagher as well.

There is as much sense IMO in trying to make a wingman out of Burns as there is in belting your head repeatedly with a mallett.

He will never be a matchwinner up the ground. Ronnie has one unique value when he's really on - he can kick goals and could win a game on those occasions.

But at the moment he's done nothing to warrant even being in our best 24 let alone our best 22. Others have earned that right.

When he has earned it, for me, it's FP or nothing.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Originally posted by macca23

There is as much sense IMO in trying to make a wingman out of Burns as there is in belting your head repeatedly with a mallett.

He will never be a matchwinner up the ground. Ronnie has one unique value when he's really on - he can kick goals and could win a game on those occasions.

But at the moment he's done nothing to warrant even being in our best 24 let alone our best 22. Others have earned that right.

When he has earned it, for me, it's FP or nothing.

I have not stated that he should be played on the wing.
What i have said is that for short periods last year he was thrown into the midfield rotation (its hard to tell exactly where they do play sometimes). I believe, and still do, that he's got some value to the club, other than FP, if he plays to somewhere near to his potential. And that is the coaches job.
The club is not in rebuilding phase, the coach is in the last year of his contract, believe me, players will be played this year on what they can contribute now.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
How is Shirley better midfielder than Stenglein??????

After one quiet season from Stenglein and half a good season from Shirley we label Stenglein as not a good midfielder and we put Shirley in the midfield.

Shirley is not as good a tagger as Stenglein especially on bigger midfielders. He tends to go well in a half of footy then get tashed after half time. Quite frankly, I would choose Stenglein over Shirley every time.

Playing 2 taggers robs us of our midfield drive.

Either Shirley on Stenglein in the side. They cannot both co-exists in the same side. We have hentschel to groom to take over from Nigel. Also Jericho would be better option to groom to take over from Nige, than Stenglein.

Stiffy, Stinger & Shirley can co-exist in the same side. We have won games with them both playing. However, I agree we can have them both in the midfield for long periods of time - unless really wet conditions or we badly need to tag 2 dominant opposition midfielders (however, this should be on rare occasions). I believe Stinger can play as a rebounding HB flanker. His height too would help out KPP double teaming the opposition. He can still be used in the midfield rotation, as Shirley will need spells at times from hi run-with roles. We need to have players flexible of playing in different positions.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
The fact that I quoted someone means that I couldn't be stuffed doing my own ratings.

As I said Burns as a FP can be a match winner but we are playing him makes him inefective hence his rating is dropping down the order. I would still play Schuey, Skippy and Hentsch before him for a number of reasons.

1) they are not one dimesional
2) they are the future of the club Ronnie is in his last season
3) they need game time.

Face the facts that Ronnie is finished and his efforts a midfielder are pathetic to say the least. I just cannot comprehend that you actually think playing him in the midfield has some merit.

I'm also not convinced Ronnie is a midfielder. IMO we have many better options. However, I still reckon he has good value as an instinctive forward. His decision making is far better around goals than further up the field.

 

[macca23]

Originally posted by macca23
My thoughts will probably change week by week, but at this stage my best 22 would be

F: Carey, Burton, Welsh

HF: Johncock Perrie Ladhams

C: Begley Ricciuto Reilly

HB: Hentschel McGregor Smart

B: Edwards Bassett Hart

R: Clarke Goodwin McLeod

I: Biglands, Stenglein, Bode, Massie

Emerg: Stevens, Torney, Shirley, Schuback

Interesting to hear Neil Kerley talking on this very topic on 5AA tonight.

His first point was that Perrie has to play CHF so that he is in front of Carey. That way he will just play his own game rather than watching and worrying about what Carey is doing. Johncock on one flank and a host of other players for the other

His second point was that Carey is not the answer at CHF any more. He can't take overhead marks and the opposition run off of him too easily. He should be close to goal, preferably in the FP.

His next point was that Burton should play FF, because he would be our most dangerous player in that spot. He said this is the maximum value position for Burton, because on the wing he wastes the ball by poor delivery (true!!).

He went on to say that Ronnie Burns is a FP or nothing who can average 2 to 3 goals a game - forget this crap about playing in the midfield or on a wing.

He finished by saying that this would give a potent forward line.

I'm on his side - as can be seen from the above. I think the alternatives are frightening.

 

[Stiffy_18]

snap.

I already mentioned that in the other thread I started

 

[macca23]

Originally posted by Stiffy_18
snap.

I already mentioned that in the other thread I started

Yeah, you did!!

I just read it - we posted the same thing at the same time!!