Analysis Our forward line - KPF depth?

[Nuggs Bunny]

We will. I tip that Walla will be put in defence to give us run off half back. Colyer will probably be put on the wing. Fantasia might get some run in the midfield as well.

I can't see Walla and McGrath both running off half-back, and I can see McGrath getting the nod at that position.

Green and Fantasia are the two locks for me. Green because he's the only real small forward we have. Fantasia because IMO he's the clear best of the four. I don't see Colyer as being the lock-in player he used to be.

 

[JayJ20]

I can't see Walla and McGrath both running off half-back, and I can see McGrath getting the nod at that position.

Green and Fantasia are the two locks for me. Green because he's the only real small forward we have. Fantasia because IMO he's the clear best of the four. I don't see Colyer as being the lock-in player he used to be.

Not having Colyer and Walla in the side is robbing our strength. Colyer is definitely best 22 at this stage. So is Walla. Green to me is depth at this stage, but he is looking good.

Walla is only a second year player and he is only getting better. He is way too much of a talent for it to be wasted in the 2nds. The pressure he provides is very valuable. You can already see players getting nervous when he is around them.

I remember having Hibberd and Dempsey both providing run and carry off Half back and that worked really well.

 

[quotemokc]

Am I the only one that doesn't view Colyer as a small forward?

He is much more the midfielder that gives us run with his very improved kicking.

 

[Kakkle]

Am I the only one that doesn't view Colyer as a small forward?

He is much more the midfielder that gives us run with his very improved kicking.

How often have you seen him delivering the ball I50?

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

Not having Colyer and Walla in the side is robbing our strength. Colyer is definitely best 22 at this stage. So is Walla. Green to me is depth at this stage, but he is looking good.

Walla is only a second year player and he is only getting better. He is way too much of a talent for it to be wasted in the 2nds. The pressure he provides is very valuable. You can already see players getting nervous when he is around them.

I remember having Hibberd and Dempsey both providing run and carry off Half back and that worked really well.

It's not about who is being wasted in the seconds, it's about fielding the best team.

We have a very stacked deck at the moment. We have a clear top six in the midfield of Watson, Heppell, Merrett, Myers, Zaharakis and Parish. We have McGrath, Goddard and Kelly who'll be rotating through the midfield via the half back. We have experienced guys like Brent Stanton waiting in the wings for a turn. We have solid young players in Laverde and Langford who want to be in the midfield and who probably belong there as well.

So where do Colyer and Tippa fit in? I don't see room to play them both at the same time. We either play Colyer on the wing or Tippa at half back. Maybe Tippa could be a small forward, but I haven't seen that skill-set from him. Personally I'd prefer Tippa over Colyer because Tippa is much better at going both ways.

Green and Fantasia are different. Green is the only genuine small forward we have and should be starting for us. Fantasia is perfect at half forward.

This is a different team to 2015. Guys like Merrett, Langford, Laverde and Fantasia are much quicker players than the players in 2015 which Colyer had around him. I just don't see him as being the difference maker this season.

 

[Kakkle]

It's not about who is being wasted in the seconds, it's about fielding the best team.

We have a very stacked deck at the moment. We have a clear top six in the midfield of Watson, Heppell, Merrett, Myers, Zaharakis and Parish. We have McGrath, Goddard and Kelly who'll be rotating through the midfield via the half back. We have experienced guys like Brent Stanton waiting in the wings for a turn. We have solid young players in Laverde and Langford who want to be in the midfield and who probably belong there as well.

So where do Colyer and Tippa fit in? I don't see room to play them both at the same time. We either play Colyer on the wing or Tippa at half back. Maybe Tippa could be a small forward, but I haven't seen that skill-set from him. Personally I'd prefer Tippa over Colyer because Tippa is much better at going both ways.
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What game were you watching in the last game of the season in 2016?

 

[Nuggs Bunny]

What game were you watching in the last game of the season in 2016?

I watched that game, but I'm pretty sure Tippa was playing off the HFF while Spud Kommer and Jerret were playing in the pocket.

Take nothing away from a four goal haul though

 

[JayJ20]

It's not about who is being wasted in the seconds, it's about fielding the best team.

We have a very stacked deck at the moment. We have a clear top six in the midfield of Watson, Heppell, Merrett, Myers, Zaharakis and Parish. We have McGrath, Goddard and Kelly who'll be rotating through the midfield via the half back. We have experienced guys like Brent Stanton waiting in the wings for a turn. We have solid young players in Laverde and Langford who want to be in the midfield and who probably belong there as well.

So where do Colyer and Tippa fit in? I don't see room to play them both at the same time. We either play Colyer on the wing or Tippa at half back. Maybe Tippa could be a small forward, but I haven't seen that skill-set from him. Personally I'd prefer Tippa over Colyer because Tippa is much better at going both ways.

Green and Fantasia are different. Green is the only genuine small forward we have and should be starting for us. Fantasia is perfect at half forward.

This is a different team to 2015. Guys like Merrett, Langford, Laverde and Fantasia are much quicker players than the players in 2015 which Colyer had around him. I just don't see him as being the difference maker this season.

I'd have Colyer and Walla in front of Green. McGrath won't play every game and neither will Kelly so there is plenty of room for Walla to play every game. He'll play most games

 

[Kakkle]

I watched that game, but I'm pretty sure Tippa was playing off the HFF while Spud Kommer and Jerret were playing in the pocket.

Take nothing away from a four goal haul though

Magnets on a white board.

 

[BrunoV]

I think you're underselling the impact of us resting Leuenberger for the majority of the last quarter there is not much McKernan can do against a giant like Cox which gave free rain to the Collingwood mids.

Once the real stuff starts it surely can't be hard to stagger the midfield rotations so we don't end up with 3 of our smaller midfielders in at the same centre bounce.

Ill be concerned if we fade out again against GC. I'm hoping it was the players we rested that caused the fade out.

Like I said above it's was almost exactly midfielders 5 to 9 for the respective sides going head to head. Sure, we will rotate to keep big bodied players in the middle but our depth players were pounded. It hints at a soft underbelly of the side that played on Thursday.

 

[BrunoV]

Do I see a different Colyer? One dimensional?

He was one of the main reasons why we beat Hawthorn in 2015. He gave us the spark that lifted our side.

And he single-handedly beat St Kilda with that long running goal. His overhead marking and much improved kicking was great.

We lost all run after he became injured and only won twice after that. Firmly entrenched in our best 22

Yes, run. He is really good in a footrace back toward goal.

Have you identified a second dimension?

 

[Doss]

Colyer did far more than just run fast towards goal in the second half of 2014 and first half of 2015 before he went down with injury.

 

[Bombermania]

Woosha seems to think that Fanta, Walla, Green & Colyer can play in the one team, I would add McKenna coming off the half back line, five speedsters in the one side.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

Colyer did far more than just run fast towards goal in the second half of 2014 and first half of 2015 before he went down with injury.

Yep agree was finally starting to become the player we know he is and then got injured.

 

[BrunoV]

Yep agree was finally starting to become the player we know he is and then got injured.

He got 9 possessions on Thursday and kicked two. One of his goals was from a Stewart free kick (Stewart kicked one himself and had 7 possessions). No one thinks Stewart played well...

 

[JayJ20]

He got 9 possessions on Thursday and kicked two. One of his goals was from a Stewart free kick (Stewart kicked one himself and had 7 possessions). No one thinks Stewart played well...

I don't think anyone was talking about his game on Thursday. It is after all a preseason game after a year and a half out.

They were talking about the latter half of 2014 and 2015 before his injury

 

[blitzer]

I thought the small forward structure functioned really well. Was happy with the contributions from the group and whilst we may have one small too many that should become a medium sized player eg Laverde but i still don't think its too big an issue.

That said I do agree with the minority that think Colyer is overrated on here. Look he's got great line breaking pace BUT the guy doesn't get much of the ball and turns it over often when he goes get it. In fact when i was reading the AFL Prospectus for 2017 - here's a direct quote:

"he has recorded a negative kick rating in five of his six seasons. His career kick rating of -4.4% ranks in the bottom 20% of the league. The Bombers retained just 28% of his kicks into forward 50 in 2015, the third-worst retention rate of the top-300 players for entries."

I love his pace, line breaking ability and the goals he kicks. But he is not a complete player by any means. He averages low disposals, low contested possessions and is not great by foot. Also despite his pace he only averages 2.2 tackles a game. I will say that sometimes he can have a great impact from few possessions and he'd still start in my best 22 but I just think its clear in my mind that he's not in our top 15 players and is a guy that could get pushed out.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

"he has recorded a negative kick rating in five of his six seasons. His career kick rating of -4.4% ranks in the bottom 20% of the league. The Bombers retained just 28% of his kicks into forward 50 in 2015, the third-worst retention rate of the top-300 players for entries."

I don't think that career kick rating is that relevant considering it was a major issue before his 2015 season where he made immense improvement, also there wasn't a lot to kick at in the forward line then. If he reverts to pre 14-15' form, I think everyone would be in agreement that his position will certainly be up for grabs.

 

[BrunoV]

I thought the small forward structure functioned really well. Was happy with the contributions from the group and whilst we may have one small too many that should become a medium sized player eg Laverde but i still don't think its too big an issue.

That said I do agree with the minority that think Colyer is overrated on here. Look he's got great line breaking pace BUT the guy doesn't get much of the ball and turns it over often when he goes get it. In fact when i was reading the AFL Prospectus for 2017 - here's a direct quote:

"he has recorded a negative kick rating in five of his six seasons. His career kick rating of -4.4% ranks in the bottom 20% of the league. The Bombers retained just 28% of his kicks into forward 50 in 2015, the third-worst retention rate of the top-300 players for entries."

I love his pace, line breaking ability and the goals he kicks. But he is not a complete player by any means. He averages low disposals, low contested possessions and is not great by foot. Also despite his pace he only averages 2.2 tackles a game. I will say that sometimes he can have a great impact from few possessions and he'd still start in my best 22 but I just think its clear in my mind that he's not in our top 15 players and is a guy that could get pushed out.

Interesting stuff.

The bolded is a good summary.As the incumbent it's Colyer's spot to lose.

Say that Jake Long, for example, starts averaging 20 possessions a week and kicks goals at VFL level then unless Colyer is doing the same I don't know why he would maintain a spot in the side. I'd prefer to have the wingman with the defensive capacity and contested ability of Long (to go with speed).

 

[Bombermania]

Interesting stuff.

The bolded is a good summary.As the incumbent it's Colyer's spot to lose.

Say that Jake Long, for example, starts averaging 20 possessions a week and kicks goals at VFL level then unless Colyer is doing the same I don't know why he would maintain a spot in the side. I'd prefer to have the wingman with the defensive capacity and contested ability of Long (to go with speed).

Woosha should be challenging Long to perform at that level and if he pulls it off then he should be in the side.

 

[JayJ20]

94 points from only 37 inside 50s without Daniher or Hooker really impressed me. Last year, we'd need 50-60 inside 50s to get 90+

The year before that, we had a similar problem. 58 inside 50s for 61 points is ridiculous. Hopefully we can keep up this conversion rate

 

[eth-dog]

I'm interested to see Daniher, Hooker, Stewart and our gaggle of smalls work together next game.

 

[BrunoV]

Woosha should be challenging Long to perform at that level and if he pulls it off then he should be in the side.

I've got no doubt that he is.

For the sake of clarity, I'm not saying that Long should be in the side as it stands. If he adds the attacking elements to his defensive and contested game, which is really good, he becomes the sort of well rounded player I'd prefer to have in the side.

For what it's worth I expect Long to end up pounding the door down sooner rather than later.

 

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

I've got no doubt that he is.

For the sake of clarity, I'm not saying that Long should be in the side as it stands. If he adds the attacking elements to his defensive and contested game, which is really good, he becomes the sort of well rounded player I'd prefer to have in the side.

For what it's worth I expect Long to end up pounding the door down sooner rather than later.

His old man was the same when he first started if I'm not mistaken.

 

[BrunoV]

His old man was the same when he first started if I'm not mistaken.

I don't really remember the best of Michael but it would surprise me if Long started with defence and added the rest of his game because that's not really how the game was played in the 90s.