Our Forward line

[eastfreo75]

I agree with you that our forward half woes are largely to do with how we play. I think the inability to hit targets is only a portion of the problem. How often do we see Ballas 1 on 2? He does not lead, I guess he is expected to bring the ball to ground. This just does not work. Our forwards don't lead, or find space or help each other to find space. It is forward coaching rather than lack of skills IMHO.

Everybody talks about Lyon being defensive but most teams play 7 man Defenses against us.

They know that we don't use it well in the back half and we win a lot of clearances.

If we use the ball better in the back half and really hurt teams, teams won't do that as much.

Teams know that Spurr and co bomb it and they just outnumber our forward line.

If we start breaking the lines with run and carry or breaking up zones with short/medium kicks, then we will reduce repeat inside 50s and increase inside 50 retries and marks.

Our forward line for me isn't the problem. McCarthy, Bennell, Walters, and Matera if given good entries, time and space will hurt everybody on the scoreboard.

 

[sherrif]

Everybody talks about Lyon being defensive but most teams play 7 man Defenses against us.

They know that we don't use it well in the back half and we win a lot of clearances.

If we use the ball better in the back half and really hurt teams, teams won't do that as much.

Teams know that Spurr and co bomb it and they just outnumber our forward line.

If we start breaking the lines with run and carry or breaking up zones with short/medium kicks, then we will reduce repeat inside 50s and increase inside 50 retries and marks.

Our forward line for me isn't the problem. McCarthy, Bennell, Walters, and Matera if given good entries, time and space will hurt everybody on the scoreboard.

I agree completely with the above. Id add another key tactic should be to only rotate good to great kicks through the half forward flanks. Having Mundy, Cerra, Bennell, Tucker, Walters and Matera (perhaps Crowden) kicking the ball into forward fifty as often as possible should be a key goal of the match committee. Also. it will be harder for opposition players to drop off their man and intercept mark if the opposing half backs knows the Freo half forward can hurt hem with their disposal.

 

[wayToGo_]

I think it's a combination of everything everyone has said in the past page or so of posts. It's all cause and effect with team sports, so more often than not it's improving incrementally across a number of areas that will give the best outcome rather than trying to focus on just one thing...

• improved contested football to win the ball more often and need to defend less
• a more accountable midfield eases pressure on our defenders and increases intercepts
• a more cohesive/experienced and defensively effective back line that doesn't need as much support from the midfield (less flood back required)
• quicker and more effective rebound coming out of d50 (both running the ball and kicking)
• better structure/spread when in possession of the ball to allow effective and fast ball movement
• overlap support enabled through better spread to avoid any bottlenecks caused by opposition walls etc
• better timed and better coordinated leading patterns by forwards to open up the forward line, exploit double/triple teaming and cause mismatches
• more poised delivery inside 50 enabled through better skills and more support both behind and in front of the ball
• less bomb the ball to the pack and more targeted passes will increase marks inside 50 and therefore shot on goal
• better cohesion amongst talls and smalls in the forward line will bring smalls into the game when the ball is brought to the ground (when there are no open leads available)

And so on... All the pieces need to be put in place for it to work. I'm thinking we are on the right path but you only really know for sure when it starts all coming together.

 

[Bigtrev41]

Everybody talks about Lyon being defensive but most teams play 7 man Defenses against us.

They know that we don't use it well in the back half and we win a lot of clearances.

We were 11th for clearances in 2017.

If we use the ball better in the back half and really hurt teams, teams won't do that as much.

Teams know that Spurr and co bomb it and they just outnumber our forward line.

If we start breaking the lines with run and carry or breaking up zones with short/medium kicks, then we will reduce repeat inside 50s and increase inside 50 retries and marks.

Our forward line for me isn't the problem. McCarthy, Bennell, Walters, and Matera if given good entries, time and space will hurt everybody on the scoreboard.

Our forward line is a problem, and the manner in which we enter it. You cannot say it's not a problem when we were the lowest goalkicking side in 2017.

 

[eastfreo75]

We were 11th for clearances in 2017.



Our forward line is a problem, and the manner in which we enter it. You cannot say it's not a problem when we were the lowest goalkicking side in 2017.

Clearance difference we are 9th and 7th in Centre Clearance difference.

So transition from D50 to F50, doesn't effect scoring?

Forward 50 entries have nothing to do with scoring?

We are 15th in F50 entries difference and that's the forward line issue is it?

 

[Bigtrev41]

Clearance difference we are 9th and 7th in Centre Clearance difference.

So transition from D50 to F50, doesn't effect scoring?

Forward 50 entries have nothing to do with scoring?

We are 15th in F50 entries difference and that's the forward line issue is it?

We take the least amount of marks in a forward 50, depsite, as you say being 15th in F50 entry difference, so yes - there is absolutey a forward line issue.

At no point did I say transition wasn't an issue, you want to put words in my mouth, go for it.

Also just pointed out we're a middle of the road clearance team, so saying we "win alot" when we are merely average doesn't really wash.

 

[freoextra]

The improvement in delivery needs to come from defense.

Mundy, Neale, Fyfe, Hills, are all generally good users of the ball, the problem is the Spurr, Sutcliffe, Sheridan and MJ. Ruckmen aside, those guys are literally among the worst users of the ball on our list.

Yes we've gone some way to rectifying the problem with Wilson and most likely Ryan, but those other guys just can't be getting a game for us.

Can certainly understand you putting Spurr and Sutcliffe in the worst users of the football in our team but a bit surprised to see Johnson and even Sheridan. Johnson has a long history of skilful ball use (occasional brain farts acknowledged) and Sheridan is actually a beautiful kick to a forward lead (but acknowledge he has many other issues). Think we are slowly working towards having a better kicking team which is great news.

 

[IAMJUNGLEMUFFIN]

Can certainly understand you putting Spurr and Sutcliffe in the worst users of the football in our team but a bit surprised to see Johnson and even Sheridan. Johnson has a long history of skilful ball use (occasional brain farts acknowledged) and Sheridan is actually a beautiful kick to a forward lead (but acknowledge he has many other issues). Think we are slowly working towards having a better kicking team which is great news.

MJ was a decent kick years ago, he isn't now. Physically he's never been a prime specimen, quite the opposite, but now it's a major negative that impacts everything.

Sheridan might be lethal on the training track, but we're yet to see it on match day. I think he just hasn't got the right mental tools/temperament and it all flows on from that.

 

[Bigtrev41]

I can actually see MJ being a hinderance this year more than a help, he knows it's his last year, still seems to think he's a 21 one year old off the field and cant turn on it.

Hopefully he got the wake up call from the kebab shop and he proves the doubters, myself included, wrong.

He can still be affective, but I would play him as a forward.

 

[freoextra]

MJ was a decent kick years ago, he isn't now. Physically he's never been a prime specimen, quite the opposite, but now it's a major negative that impacts everything.

Sheridan might be lethal on the training track, but we're yet to see it on match day. I think he just hasn't got the right mental tools/temperament and it all flows on from that.

Fair enough, I might be thinking of Johno more in the past when he was very clever coming out of the backline. Had some scrubber kicks for sure this year and hopefully we don't need to rely on him heavily this year. Great player in his prime though.

I have seen Sheridan kicking beautifully to leading forwards on game day but really cant be bothered defending him because I agree that from temperament point of view he is often lacking.

 

[UYD 4 Life]

The improvement in delivery needs to come from defense.

Mundy, Neale, Fyfe, Hills, are all generally good users of the ball, the problem is the Spurr, Sutcliffe, Sheridan and MJ. Ruckmen aside, those guys are literally among the worst users of the ball on our list.

Yes we've gone some way to rectifying the problem with Wilson and most likely Ryan, but those other guys just can't be getting a game for us.

Spurr had the highest disposal efficiency on our list last year - MJ was third (discounting Dawsons 8 possessions for the year at 87,5%). Fyfe had the most clangers and was 18th for DE, Mundy 20th, bhill 27th, shill 30th

 

[Monument Hills]

Need to offload Fyfe for whatever we can get and move Spurr into the middle.

 

[UYD 4 Life]

Need to offload Fyfe for whatever we can get and move Spurr into the middle.

hahahaha - do you think if we got rid of fyfe we could get back in the 2nd round next year?

 

[SHill Shall]

hahahaha - do you think if we got rid of fyfe we could get back in the 2nd round next year?

What - are St Kilda upping their offer now?

 

[IAMJUNGLEMUFFIN]

Spurr had the highest disposal efficiency on our list last year - MJ was third (discounting Dawsons 8 possessions for the year at 87,5%). Fyfe had the most clangers and was 18th for DE, Mundy 20th, bhill 27th, shill 30th

This just goes to show how absurd some of the arguments people around here make.

Always said Zac D had underrated disposal.

 

[Monument Hills]

This just goes to show how absurd some of the arguments people around here make.

Always said Zac D had underrated disposal.

He had a FDE (Fist Disposal Efficiency) of 99.4%

 

[IAMJUNGLEMUFFIN]

He had a FDE (Fist Disposal Efficiency) of 99.4%

If only he was our first choice Ruckman

 

[The Joker]

I really just wish we could put a key forward at FF and leave him there for the whole season.

Looking around, all of the best forward lines have a stay at home type, s**t even the average forward lines do. Kennedy, Reiwoldt, Hawkins, Dixon, Walker, Cameron, Lynch, Bruce ect. are very rarely positioned outside 50. Brown, Daniher and Buddy are exceptions, the first two give their number 1 rucks a rest and Buddy, well he is Buddy!

At this stage that player has to be McCarthy. He is young enough and can develop, with a team that is actually developing, into that type of key forward. If Apeness was ever fit, then he would be my first option!

Maybe Tom Lynch will be that guy next season...



Ross, why does everyone need to be able to play a number of different positions to get a game in your team?

Actually Ross, while I'm at it, stop playing the second ******* ruckperson!!!

 

[M_rash]

I really just wish we could put a key forward at FF and leave him there for the whole season.

Looking around, all of the best forward lines have a stay at home type, s**t even the average forward lines do. Kennedy, Reiwoldt, Hawkins, Dixon, Walker, Cameron, Lynch, Bruce ect. are very rarely positioned outside 50. Brown, Daniher and Buddy are exceptions, the first two give their number 1 rucks a rest and Buddy, well he is Buddy!

At this stage that player has to be McCarthy. He is young enough and can develop, with a team that is actually developing, into that type of key forward. If Apeness was ever fit, then he would be my first option!

Maybe Tom Lynch will be that guy next season...



Ross, why does everyone need to be able to play a number of different positions to get a game in your team?

Actually Ross, while I'm at it, stop playing the second ******* ruckperson!!!

I think for us it’s important to have versatile forwards because the ball rarely journeys i50 - so they need to play mid/def or go stale waiting. Jokes.

Crows and GWS basically play the same 6 forwards every week. Wish we did the same too. But you can only do that if they are performing. We have the worst efficiency i50 in the comp. Part due to poor delivery, part due to poor forward players, and part due to game plan. If we had one of the key forwards you listed, we would leave him there and he would make our forward line better. But alas, we don’t have one (until Dixon gets a few preseasons into him!).

 

[TheInjuryFactory]

I really just wish we could put a key forward at FF and leave him there for the whole season.

Looking around, all of the best forward lines have a stay at home type, s**t even the average forward lines do. Kennedy, Reiwoldt, Hawkins, Dixon, Walker, Cameron, Lynch, Bruce ect. are very rarely positioned outside 50. Brown, Daniher and Buddy are exceptions, the first two give their number 1 rucks a rest and Buddy, well he is Buddy!

At this stage that player has to be McCarthy. He is young enough and can develop, with a team that is actually developing, into that type of key forward. If Apeness was ever fit, then he would be my first option!

Maybe Tom Lynch will be that guy next season...



Ross, why does everyone need to be able to play a number of different positions to get a game in your team?

Actually Ross, while I'm at it, stop playing the second ******* ruckperson!!!

This is my number one gripe with Rossco's game plan.

Should have done this with Pav in his last couple years, had him logging way too many kms pushing up when he was by that stage ineffective at pushing back hard enough to beat his man, and we absolutely ran him into the ground. Was smart enough at times to make a contest but he was cooked and we turned him over one more time to put some scorch marks on him!

Our game plan has relied upon beating the opposition back to our goal on the fast break, great once in a blue moon where Ballas or Walters has a step or two on their man, but why not have someone sitting back there already?! McCarthy is clever enough to half the contest.

Annoys the s**t out of me every game, we get the ball and if we can't beat them back in a pure foot race we just get stuck holding it up waiting for support and lose our advantage.

Hard to score regularly when there's no bloody forwards! :chocolate icecream swirl:

 

[Freomaniac]

Personally, I don't think Freo have the Worst forward line in the comp. Carlton isn too good. Collingwoods isn't great either. I reckon its going to be another one of those seasons where Freo will average 10 goals a game at home again. So that means there will be a considerable gap between our best and worst. If we face a decent top 6 side, we will be kicking 5-8 goals and lose. If we take on a bottom 6 side Freo will kick 12-15 goals and very likely win.

Don't mind getting 5-6 wins again and getting 2-4 close away wins.

 

[Freomaniac]

I think for us it’s important to have versatile forwards because the ball rarely journeys i50 - so they need to play mid/def or go stale waiting. Jokes.

Crows and GWS basically play the same 6 forwards every week. Wish we did the same too. But you can only do that if they are performing. We have the worst efficiency i50 in the comp. Part due to poor delivery, part due to poor forward players, and part due to game plan. If we had one of the key forwards you listed, we would leave him there and he would make our forward line better. But alas, we don’t have one (until Dixon gets a few preseasons into him!).

It seemed Like freo went in with a 5 man forward line and that 6th person was a rotating mid.

Cam McCarthy and Shane Kersten are both around 190cm and 90 kg and they took both KPF spots. Walters was our mains small forward but played on the wing. Tabs shown he can be half decent. Ballantyne isn't the man he was from 2010-14. Then that 6th forward is a mid and that is anyone from Fyfe, Langdon, Brad Hill and Harley bennell.

Essentially it was a 5 man forward line, 6 man midfield and 7 people in the defensive 50.

Looking at our new recruits: Matera in my opinion takes Ballantiyne's spot. I see him kicking 25-30 goals. We are keen for a Ruck man that can kick 20 or so goals his year and that could be Luke Strnadica, Scott Jones or Michael Apeness. We have a lot of blokes that can play wing and forward flank in Langdon, Bennell and Both Hills.

We Don't have anyone capable of 50-60 goals in a season. We have a lot of guys capable of kicking 30-35 goals season

 

[wayToGo_]

Walters was our mains small forward but played on the wing.

A few people have said this. When did Walters play wing last season? Admittedly I may have missed it if he did but I only remember him rotating between the forward line and in the middle.

We Don't have anyone capable of 50-60 goals in a season. We have a lot of guys capable of kicking 30-35 goals season

McCarthy should be kicking 40+. He kicked 35 in 2015 in only his 2nd year (after playing just 1 AFL game in 2014). Walters and Ballantyne are both capable of kicking 40+ (and have before) but perhaps unlikely with more midfield time and age respectively. Matera was on track to kick 40+ before getting injured last season so let's hope he can recapture that form. 40+ is about 2 goals per game. If we can get 1.5-2 goals per game average from 3-4 of our forwards that's a **** load better than recent seasons. And then if our other forwards (Kersten/Tabs/Cox/Bennell/etc) can kick 1-1.5 per game we might have an average rather than below average forward line. Improved delivery i50 from guys like Cerra/Brayshaw/Tucker/Wilson etc will help but with the (limited) forward personnel we have I still think defensive pressure is key to them impacting games - just like with our women's team. Lock the ball forward and we stop the opposition scoring and give ourselves plenty more opportunities to kick goals - and less reliance on our talls.

 

[FreoMonocle]

Crozier having been played in defence the previous year and only a few AFL appearances before, McCarthy and Kersten new to Freo, Cox and Logue both debutants, Midfielders in Mundy, Fyfe etc filling in, we had a lot of new players that weren't our established forwards in forward positions.

Of the established at Freo forwards that we did have, Yarran was kicked out of the team, Ballas was out injured/not fit for half of it, Walters spent a fair chunk of time in the midfield and Tabs was struggling to earn and retain a spot.

Add Bennell who wasn't available for the 2 years, but at least was around for 2 preseasons (not sure if that puts him in cat a or b above) and the perenially injured Apeness and whoever else I've left out.

Thank <insert deity or void of choice> that our forward line can only be more settled than that.

 

[wayToGo_]

Clearly the club has taken notice of our criticisms about a lack of focus on goal kicking. They have been at Optus Stadium practicing goal kicking this morning...