Our Forward Structure

[spanna050]

Not sure if it was by design, or just a way to get through Collingwood's midfield press, but there was alot of similarity to Pagan's paddock tonight.

Thoughts?

 

[meto]

Just too small

Seems like we're rotating our tall forwards out of the forward line continually only allowing for the smalls to play the leading roles.
The talls have now lost confidence cause they're always 1 man out against the defence, and the smalls are brushed aside to easily.
What happened to the 3 tall structure that kicked 150 pt scores earlier in the year.
And for goodnessake please pick a legitmate second ruck, Blake or West, and get bigger up forward like Collingwood.

 

[_Me_]

Re: Just too small

I think we are experimenting, which will end. Pods has not done it on the big stage against quality opposition again. I think we need to revert to Hawkins Mooney upfront, and Pods goes for another ruckman. Byrnes also should be given a few weeks off, and Menzel given a chance. If Rooke comes in the forward line has more structure and poise.
Hogan worries me named as an emergency, as he is seems to be having the second year blues.
Even Brown if fit, could be worth the risk upfront.

 

[The Governor]

Hi Everyone,

The Governor was watching the game with intent interest last night and came up with a number of observations:

1. Even though our forwards have the highest number of assists in the league, we have a tendency to share the ball around too often within the 50 meter zone instead of having a shot at goal.
2. There is a heavy reliance on Matthew Stokes and Stevie J to kick the goals.
3. Cameron Mooney has contracted Ian Baker Finch disease. He needs to kick goals even though he does a lot of the physical work for a centre half forward (creating space for the midfielders; tapping or knocking the ball to his teamates and bringing others into the play).
4. We were totally thrashed in the centre bounces. Even though Brad Ottens played a great game for the Cats, our mid fielders were outnumbered at the ball.

Has the Geelong coaching staff ever thought about contacting SEN's Mark Allen to help Cameron Mooney with the mental side of goal kicking. Cameron Mooney can easily kick goals during training. But, the mental processes of executing the perfect kick for goal are crucial for premiership success.

Marko Allen, who is a Collingwood supporter, should get in contact with Cameron Mooney who is suffering from Ian Baker Finch disease in front of goal.

THE GOVERNOR

 

[Just do something]

Governor pull ya head in whats this "The Governor this Governor that. Who are you a prophet or something. Just tell us what you see dont talk in the third person all the time.

 

[archilino]

Relax JDS, nothing wrong with being a little different.
The govenor has some good points about mooney's goal kicking but it wasnt just him in the closing stages, if i remember correctly varcoe and selwood also missed straightforward shot on goal in the last quarter.

Having said that collingwood did hit the post 6 times..

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

Hi Everyone,

The Governor was watching the game with intent interest last night and came up with a number of observations:

1. Even though our forwards have the highest number of assists in the league, we have a tendency to share the ball around too often within the 50 meter zone instead of having a shot at goal.
2. There is a heavy reliance on Matthew Stokes and Stevie J to kick the goals.
3. Cameron Mooney has contracted Ian Baker Finch disease. He needs to kick goals even though he does a lot of the physical work for a centre half forward (creating space for the midfielders; tapping or knocking the ball to his teamates and bringing others into the play).
4. We were totally thrashed in the centre bounces. Even though Brad Ottens played a great game for the Cats, our mid fielders were outnumbered at the ball.

Has the Geelong coaching staff ever thought about contacting SEN's Mark Allen to help Cameron Mooney with the mental side of goal kicking. Cameron Mooney can easily kick goals during training. But, the mental processes of executing the perfect kick for goal are crucial for premiership success.

Marko Allen, who is a Collingwood supporter, should get in contact with Cameron Mooney who is suffering from Ian Baker Finch disease in front of goal.

THE GOVERNOR

Good Points. I suppose everyone is on to Jpod now so he gets double or triple teamed. Mooney has met his match in Cloke not great to see them have a competition for the most misses in a game. Both need to sort it out.

Is it me or are we bombing it to the forward line a lot more recently? I know with our play style, we look to kick into the forward line in a 1v1 but when we are up against good teams like pies, saints.. we Bomb it in say to Stevie J and he can't mark it...ball spills to ground and 2 or 3 defenders have arrived and Stevie J is by himself because the rest of Geelong have not rocked up due to the quick inside 50 and then they can get it out and start there run off the back line. And this is the reason why we can have spells where we don't score?

We can do it against the bottom sides because we are bigger stronger boodies. But now the top teams are catching up in development and it doesn't always work in our favour.

Could just be me though...

 

[_Me_]

Thought Pods was slow, did not chase well, and could not get down low. He seems out of his depth on the big stage.

 

[Gogeelong]

Mooney has been down
He has difficulty taking a contested mark and his kicking is pathetic.
He may give us someone to kick too but is not on song.

Pods is much better in both marking and kicking for goal

We should only play 2 talls in the forward line and have to settle the team down now.
Iff Hawkins does not find touch VERY soon I fear he will be dropped.
This means that West should be given a go

 

[The Governor]

Good Points. I suppose everyone is on to Jpod now so he gets double or triple teamed. Mooney has met his match in Cloke not great to see them have a competition for the most misses in a game. Both need to sort it out.

Is it me or are we bombing it to the forward line a lot more recently? I know with our play style, we look to kick into the forward line in a 1v1 but when we are up against good teams like pies, saints.. we Bomb it in say to Stevie J and he can't mark it...ball spills to ground and 2 or 3 defenders have arrived and Stevie J is by himself because the rest of Geelong have not rocked up due to the quick inside 50 and then they can get it out and start there run off the back line. And this is the reason why we can have spells where we don't score?

We can do it against the bottom sides because we are bigger stronger boodies. But now the top teams are catching up in development and it doesn't always work in our favour.

Could just be me though...

Good points!!

I think that when the opposition places pressure on most ball carriers who are looking for a target within the forward 50, the ball carrier tends to miss the target or fails to execute the best option. There were times during the game where Geelong's ball carriers looked for an option, but the options were covered. Hence, when they selected an option, the option missed the target or was intercepted by the Collingwood players.

I think our forward line structure is too small. Stevie J and Matthew Stokes are our two forward options whilst Mooney, Hawkins and the IPOD play the floating or leading big man who leads up from the half forward to wing area to set up the play for the forwards.

IF you go back to footy in the 90s, Stevie J (David Copperfield: Darren Berry calls him David Copperfield on K-Rock), would make the ideal full forward. He is of a similar height to a Jason Dunstall and Matthew Lloyd. However, he is a floating centre half forward-half forward target with a bigger body and the silky half forward skills of a Daicos, Bosustow and Bruce Lindner).

Hence, the pressure is on Stevie J, Stokes and Byrnes to kick the bulk of the goals.

What baffles me is Cameron Mooney's conversion for goal within the forward 50 zone. Gee, a Centre Half Forward in today's game should kick his 2 to 3 goals per game on top of his physical and running work within the forward 50 zone. He was doing his job as a Centre Half Forward in 2007 and I held the belief that he was a better Centre Half Forward than Barry Stoneham.

So, the jury is still out on our forward structure. Bomber and his match committee can easily adopt the Pagan's paddock of using the IPOD, Stevie J and Stokes within the 35 meter zone of the forward 50 whilst using Mooney and Hawkins as your two mobile key forwards. Cam Mooney can float from centre half forward to the wing-half back region whilst Tom Hawkins can be used as the other big man who floats from the 35 meter zone to the centre half forward region with Shannon Byrnes lurking around the packs.

On a final point, the jury is still out on Tom Lonergan. He looked out of sorts last night and I think Marcus Drum could be a better option than Lonergan. However, Marcus Drum is coming back from injury and he would be seriously underdone for finals time.

And, Matty Scarlett seems to be playing a different role than in previous years. He plays his best attacking football from full back and I think Bomber should just leave him at full back with the policy of who cares if the opposition play a tall or a small on him. Eade and co will try to drag Scarlett out of the full back zone, but Bomber should just tell Scarlett to stay at Full Back regardless of what his opponents do.

THE GOVERNOR

 

[LifeSpan-Void]

Too many times we got the ball to half-forward only to have it sail back overhead, where collingwood seemed to have numbers at the ball and positioned perfectly to draw a man and take him out of the play. What we need is for menzel and Duncan to step up into the tall half forward positions, but be able to play defensively and stop collingwoods run. Adelaide did the same thing, st. Kilda did the same thing, even Carlton did this to us. Also we are carrying too many talls, Hawkins/pods/mooney/lonergan - one of them needs to make way for Blake/west, and one of them needs to sit out.

 

[The Governor]

Could Lonergan be on the outer??

Gee, we play an improved attacking brand of footy with Scarlett at Full Back (regardless of what the opposition does).

I think Bomber and the coaching staff get sucked into the trap of the opposing coaches dragging the full forward to a half forward-forward pocket position to reduce Scarlo's attacking effectivenss.

We were caught out last night when Joel Corey was dragged to the backline during the 2nd quarter.

I think Bomber should say to Scarlo, "Stay at the full back zone".

However, we are playing the Bulldogs and Barry Hall will be reunited with his All Australian Ireland teamate!!

I just hope Bomber does not put Longeran onto Hall!!

Tom Lonergan has done well this year, but I think Marcus Drum is a better option than Lonergan.

THE GOVERNOR

 

[The rabbi]

Tom Lonergan has done well this year, but I think Marcus Drum is a better option than Lonergan.

And you know this how?

Drum has played few VFL games and zilch AFL games this year. How could he possibly be considered over Lonergan?

 

[Turbocat]

Before having a meltdown on our FS and for that matter Back Structure, one must remember that we only had 35 odd inside 50's our lowest since 2004 while we conceded 65 odd. Most forwardline and backline would look ordinary within this set of numbers.

In fact one might argue that the efficiency of or forwardline kept us in it.

My observations done purely at the game.

We struggled to have one player that could mark like cloke did. Not that there was heap of chances. Pods , Mooney and SJ all struggled to make an impact in this area so to some degree it must have something to do with the way the ball is brought in. Varcoe looked dangerous as he came into the forwardline as he has the speed and the skill to put the ball to advantage.

So again it I think it comes more back to the mids. The clogging with the midfield press is just getting more and more difficult for our guys to beat.No matter what the seasons outcome I think there needs to be a couple regular places given to fresh blood next year. Varoce has taken a while but one can see what patience can deliver

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Thought Pods was slow, did not chase well, and could not get down low. He seems out of his depth on the big stage.

Are you serious? You saw Clydesdale Otto and injured Hawk play last night and you thought Pods was SLOW? I honestly can't believe that.

FWIW Pods beat Presti, who's a damn good defender, 1-1 more than 50 % of the time, and took some nice marks. The problem was he took them all on the wing, which is indicative of our inability to get the ball inside 50 (lowest inside 50 stat since 2004 last night) which shows you why we lost the game, and it certainly wasn't the full forward's fault. Sure, it would be good if Pods recaptured some of his early season form, but I can't understand how you'd prefer Hawkins at full forward to the Pod based on what you saw last night. Quite the opposite.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

And you know this how?

Drum has played few VFL games and zilch AFL games this year. How could he possibly be considered over Lonergan?

I agree. Saw Drum at the VFL today (spectating he was, injured poor boy). He may be than Lonergan, but not this year.

 

[meto]

Could Lonergan be on the outer??

Gee, we play an improved attacking brand of footy with Scarlett at Full Back (regardless of what the opposition does).

I think Bomber and the coaching staff get sucked into the trap of the opposing coaches dragging the full forward to a half forward-forward pocket position to reduce Scarlo's attacking effectivenss.

We were caught out last night when Joel Corey was dragged to the backline during the 2nd quarter.

I think Bomber should say to Scarlo, "Stay at the full back zone".

However, we are playing the Bulldogs and Barry Hall will be reunited with his All Australian Ireland teamate!!

I just hope Bomber does not put Longeran onto Hall!!

Tom Lonergan has done well this year, but I think Marcus Drum is a better option than Lonergan.

THE GOVERNOR

You're kidding me! if Lonergan didn't keep Cloke out of it when Collingwood were firing, we would have gone down by alot more than 22pts.
He made some errors early but without him we're outsized.

 

[ant0s]

And you know this how?

Drum has played few VFL games and zilch AFL games this year. How could he possibly be considered over Lonergan?

He is being sarcastic

 

[bulletproof]

Steve Johnson is the main problem, consistently our worst player in the big games. Destroyed last night. Should be played deep at full forward or as an impact player off the bench.

 

[SJ]

Steve Johnson is the main problem, consistently our worst player in the big games. Destroyed last night. Should be played deep at full forward or as an impact player off the bench.

Are you joking?

17 touches and 2.2 when we got inside 50 only 37 times (six-year low).

And consistently our worst player in big games? My goodness.

 

[SJ]

My problem is that when we have played at the 'G (generally against the better teams), our successful structure seems to break down.

Instead of Podsiadly leading from the square to 30-40 metres out and marking, he gets his kicks on the wing. He then must go to Mooney or Johnson around the arc, and then we have to rely on Stokes and Byrnes running back towards goal. This is a good shock tactic however you cannot rely on this game to win finals.

I realise opposition teams apply a full-ground press which makes it difficult to get over the top. But I really think we need to take a few more risks going direct out of defence rather than running it the whole way, and get it in quick to the talls. When we went inside 50 last night we were really dangerous, we just never got it there.

 

[bulletproof]

Are you joking?

17 touches and 2.2 when we got inside 50 only 37 times (six-year low).

And consistently our worst player in big games? My goodness.

The ball was not getting in the forward 50 because Johnson was not competitive at half forward. Harry O'Brien destroyed him, surely even the most biased supporter can see that? Johnson has been letting us down for a while, yes he was great in 07 but he was awful in O8 and 09 Grand Finals. He kcks goals in big wins but we need him to lift against better opposition. He is supposed to be one of the best forwards in the League. I reckon the good teams see him as our weakness. I don't doubt his talent but he is not the player he was.

 

[Partridge]

Are you joking?

17 touches and 2.2 when we got inside 50 only 37 times (six-year low).

And consistently our worst player in big games? My goodness.

Johnson wasn't our worst. But I have noticed he plays two ways; when he's on he covers miles of territory, never stops running, and by the end of the game his opponent is completely worn out. I don't mind when Johnson runs deep into the midfield and defence; his superior endurance generally means he wins. He played like this against Sydney and starred.

Last night, he was ok, but seemed to display his other tendency at times - to try and wrestle with his opponents and duck behind them rather than running straight at the ball. Just an observation.

 

[Hva sher a]

Johnson wasn't our worst. But I have noticed he plays two ways; when he's on he covers miles of territory, never stops running, and by the end of the game his opponent is completely worn out. I don't mind when Johnson runs deep into the midfield and defence; his superior endurance generally means he wins. He played like this against Sydney and starred.

Last night, he was ok, but seemed to display his other tendency at times - to try and wrestle with his opponents and duck behind them rather than running straight at the ball. Just an observation.

I noticed that too! From a Pie perspective I was in fear of what Johnson would do more than anyone else. It amuses me to read how many Catters are turning on Johnson, your primary forward A-grader. Mooney, Stokes, Byrnes and Pod are mainly (very good) support act.
I wouldn't get too distressed Geelong - you seemed to have another gear that you didn't use last night. However I'd be worried about how your midfield got swarmed by Collingwood's mids in the end. Even I was surprised at that.

 

[AM]

Corey was one of the players who underwent a fitness test on Friday. Methinks he was given the benefit of the doubt because of the brownie points he's built up over the years.

Our mids did get slaughtered on Saturday but I have enough faith in them to believe that degree of thrashing will not to recur. My issue isn't so much with the forward half as they've functioned reasonably well when the ball has been delivered well and quickly. Though I do regrettably agree about Pods - when the pill is below his knees he's next to useless.

My major concern is with the back half which has been the springboard for so long. Sides have worked out our play maker and spread the group at every opportunity which limits the cohesiveness that has been their hallmark and exposes the lack of pace.

Although Saturday night was our worst performance we haven't been playing well for weeks. We got cleaned-up by the Crows and our performance against Sydney looked better than it was because of their inaccuracy. The next two games will tell the tale. The Bullies always play well against us and we're no certainties to beat Carlton whose quick forward line cut us to pieces last time around.

Frankly, I think there are only 3 teams that can win it on present form and unfortunately we're no one of 'em. But one can hope.