Our Fringe Players

[Tygrys]

I know this could have found a home in the trade thread, but I think it can be argued that it deserves one of it's own. The value of our fringe players has become heated topic of discussion. I just thought it would be interesting to see what people thought they are worth. We seem to have made a habit of letting our fringe players go for next to nothing. Are they really that cheap, is it really that we have such a brilliant system that they are all just plug and play types in a very well drilled football machine. I have included a list here of players and where they were picked in the draft. They have all played at least one game and were all available but not selected in the 2019 Grand Final team (and yes I know some like Stack are first 22 but I had to use some kind of criteria). Also haven't included Townsend as he was a fourth round selection who is now on the rookie list so he has clearly gone backwards.

Daniel Butler - 23 Years Old - Pick 67 2014 Draft
Jack Ross - 19 Years Old - Pick 43 2018 Draft
Kamdyn McIntosh - 25 Years Old - Pick 31 2012
Callum Moore 23 Years Old - Pick12 2016 Rookie Draft
Oleg Markov - 23 Years Old - Pick 50 2015 Draft
Connor Menadue 23 Years Old - Pick 33 2014 Draft
Noah Balta - 19 Years Old - Pick 25 2017 Draft
Callum Coleman-Jones 20 Years old - Pick 20 2017 Draft
Ryan Garthwaite 21 Years old - Pick 72 2016 Draft
Mabior Chol - 22 years old - Pic 30 2016 rookie draft
Derek Eggmolesse-Smith - 21 years old - Academy Rookie Selection
Patrick Naish - 20 years old - Pick 34 2017 Father-Son
Sydney Stack - 19 Years Old - 2018 Supplemental Selection 2018

Just wondering whom out of that group has retained their value or have actually improved it albeit possibly from a very low base. Forget contracts or that they might be desperate to leave etc, just assume all things are equal, a club makes an inquiry and we respond. And which one would you die in the ditch to keep and ask a hefty premium if another club wanted them, and how much would that be. I will say that Daniel Butler is probably the most interesting. How many pick 67s play 45 games (and it would have been more if it weren't for injury) and kick 53 goals and apparently haven't improved (according to more than a few) their value at all. Most die in the ditches are pretty obvious I admit, but I'll throw in a personal favourite Eggmolesse-Smith, love his composure and dash and he is an obvious Houli replacement. It would have to be something pretty good to dislodge him.

 

[Bojangles17]

1-2y players that haven’t yet cracked a reg game could be separated from the Moore menadue Mcintosh markov butler types

 

[CholEstrol]

Would like to fight to keep Stack Balta Ross CCJ, Naish.
And Garth as the current best option as a future KPD.

 

[Absolut Tigers]

Interesting question for mine is who to do you give games to with the intent of working out who might make it.

I didn't think Soldo would make it. With Nank injured had a chance to play a lot of games without worrying about being dropped. He's now a premiership ruckman.

Point being you don't definitely know who will make it without giving them a chance to senior level.

With the age and experience of our squad if we don't have lots of injuries only a few players will get the opportunity to play lots of senior games.

 

[Madtiger2006]

Moore is a very talented forward but hardly played this year. Very good pace and jump. Nice long kick and great below knees. Need to hold onto him to take over Jack soon

 

[Absolut Tigers]

I think Caddy might be a better option up forward than Moore assuming Lynch is roaming around the forward line.

 

[DoItForCaptBlood]

Moore is a very talented forward but hardly played this year. Very good pace and jump. Nice long kick and great below knees. Need to hold onto him to take over Jack soon

"Nice long kick" maybe, but is as dependable as Richo from dead in front. Can clean Jack's boots perhaps. If he was (and maybe he has) put up for trade, we would be lucky to get a 4th - 5th rounder.
May not even be with us next year. Is he contracted for 2020?

 

[aislegi]

Think Mabior Chol is unlucky that we have Soldo/Nankervis/Lynch/Riewoldt.

Think a club like Sydney (full of short people) could use a player like him.

 

[Phar Ace]

"Nice long kick" maybe, but is as dependable as Richo from dead in front. Can clean Jack's boots perhaps. If he was (and maybe he has) put up for trade, we would be lucky to get a 4th - 5th rounder.
May not even be with us next year. Is he contracted for 2020?

Name Years Service Status Ben Miller​ 2​ Non-Free Agent​ Brandon Ellis​ 8​ Restricted Free Agent​ Callum Moore​ 4​ Non-Free Agent​ Connor Menadue​ 5​ Non-Free Agent​ Daniel Butler​ 5​ Non-Free Agent​ Derek Eggmolesse-Smith​ 2​ Non-Free Agent​ Jacob Townsend​ 4​ Non-Free Agent​ Jake Aarts​ 1​ Non-Free Agent​ Maverick Weller​ 1​ Non-Free Agent​ Shaun Grigg​ 9​ Restricted Free Agent​

 

[Meteoric Rise]

Nice thread. This is how I value the players you have nominated using draft picks as the currency. The first figure is what I believe the current fair market value is, given equal willingness on the part of the buyer and seller, the second figure is the pick I would consider accepting to release them immediately, disregarding salary cap pressures etc. Will be fun to look back later with the benefit of hindsight and see just how wrong I am.



Daniel Butler - pick 42, pick 42. Handy player, decent 2019 VFL form, known quantity, some clear limitations.

Jack Ross - pick 20, pick 13. Horror foot injury worries me slightly, but should be ok. Want a premium for him as looks to have leadership tendencies.

Kamdyn McIntosh - pick 35, pick 35. Half way through a decent career, known quantity, decent but limited player.

Callum Moore - pick 50, pick 50. Surplus to our requirements really but could be worth a punt for another club at this price.

Oleg Markov - pick 50, pick 50. Happy to accept fair value for him, can’t see an obvious role with RFC unless he can turn himself into a pressure forward, could possibly find a role elsewhere.

Connor Menadue - pick 40, pick 40. Not prepared to let this guy go too easily due to the sharp improvement late 2019 season.

Noah Balta - pick 15, pick 2. Clearly has great physical ability and if that translates into football ability and being able to fulfil a team role faithfully, he could be a stunning player. Because there is some realistic chance of him being a unique big game match winner, I want a huge premium for him.

Callum Coleman-Jones - pick 15, pick 10 - Tracking beautifully and looks like being a class player, would be asking a good premium for him without getting silly about it.

Ryan Garthwaite - pick 60, pick 50 - Limited market value, would want a small premium for him as I have an outstanding query on his 2019 season given the injury interrupted early season, and could have some handy upside.

Mabior Chol - pick 40, pick 30. Another unexposed player who could produce some strong seasons yet if he can find the right role. I believe that is more likely as a backman.

Derek Eggmolesse-Smith - pick 47, pick 33. Tough one to judge but looks a neat player, unsure how much upside from here. Want the premium for him because he could well be a ready made player right now.

Patrick Naish - pick 30, pick 20 - Has good weapons but some question marks as well. If he can get the weaker ares of his game right he could shoot the lights out, so I’d want the premium over market value to release him.

Sydney Stack - pick 5, pick 1 - Rate this guy extremely highly. Would barely need to improve to justify these figures and perhaps we should expect at least a little improvement.

 

[Tiger_Of_Old]

I know this could have found a home in the trade thread, but I think it can be argued that it deserves one of it's own. The value of our fringe players has become heated topic of discussion. I just thought it would be interesting to see what people thought they are worth. We seem to have made a habit of letting our fringe players go for next to nothing. Are they really that cheap, is it really that we have such a brilliant system that they are all just plug and play types in a very well drilled football machine. I have included a list here of players and where they were picked in the draft. They have all played at least one game and were all available but not selected in the 2019 Grand Final team (and yes I know some like Stack are first 22 but I had to use some kind of criteria). Also haven't included Townsend as he was a fourth round selection who is now on the rookie list so he has clearly gone backwards.

Daniel Butler - 23 Years Old - Pick 67 2014 Draft-3rd rnd
Jack Ross - 19 Years Old - Pick 43 2018 Draft
Kamdyn McIntosh - 25 Years Old - Pick 31 2012-2nd rnd
Callum Moore 23 Years Old - Pick12 2016 Rookie Draft-5th
Oleg Markov - 23 Years Old - Pick 50 2015 Draft-4th
Connor Menadue 23 Years Old - Pick 33 2014 Draft-3rd
Noah Balta - 19 Years Old - Pick 25 2017 Draft-2nd
Callum Coleman-Jones 20 Years old - Pick 20 2017 Draft-1st
Ryan Garthwaite 21 Years old - Pick 72 2016 Draft-3rd
Mabior Chol - 22 years old - Pic 30 2016 rookie draft-4th
Derek Eggmolesse-Smith - 21 years old - Academy Rookie Selection-4th
Patrick Naish - 20 years old - Pick 34 2017 Father-Son-2nd
Sydney Stack - 19 Years Old - 2018 Supplemental Selection 2018-1st.

Just wondering whom out of that group has retained their value or have actually improved it albeit possibly from a very low base. Forget contracts or that they might be desperate to leave etc, just assume all things are equal, a club makes an inquiry and we respond. And which one would you die in the ditch to keep and ask a hefty premium if another club wanted them, and how much would that be. I will say that Daniel Butler is probably the most interesting. How many pick 67s play 45 games (and it would have been more if it weren't for injury) and kick 53 goals and apparently haven't improved (according to more than a few) their value at all. Most die in the ditches are pretty obvious I admit, but I'll throw in a personal favourite Eggmolesse-Smith, love his composure and dash and he is an obvious Houli replacement. It would have to be something pretty good to dislodge him.

,

 

[Grrr]

Untouchables:
Sydney Stack
Jack Ross
Noah Balta
Callum Coleman-Jones

Need to keep as most likely:
Patrick Naish
Derek Eggmolesse-Smith

50:50 on:
Ryan Garthwaite
Mabior Chol
*Connor Menadue
Callum Moore
*Oleg Markov

Open to trade:
*Daniel Butler
*Kamdyn McIntosh

*Should be shopping around for more opportunities as maybe they need a fresh start.

You left out Ben Miller who may be in trouble. Put at CHF for the year in the VFL and see how he goes.

 

[THE THIN MAN]

More than Fringe!

 

[RunningBounce]

Love to know when was the last time a player traded for pick 64 led the goal kicking at their new club. Clearly, Sam Lloyd was "worth" more than that!

But it's part of the secret sauce. Players want to come to Richmond and are happy to play for Richmond for less money than they might get elsewhere because we treat them with care.

Some clubs treat players like assets, and try to maximise their value. I don't think that works in the long term.