Our game plan?

[IanW]

Oh, I've seen this game plan before - it's Sydney Swans, 1992-3.

The idea is to play tough on defense, get the ball with swarming numbers, and then run it forward with a chain of short kicks and handpasses, before a kick to the leading forward.

As a game plan, it looks utterly terrible and you get flogged a lot when you dont have the skill or desire to make it work.

And then, suddenly, the team develops that little bit of hardness, and that little bit more skill and you're beating everyone in the competition.

Melbourne have the big forward the game plan needs in Mitch Clark - I thought you overpaid for him, and I was wrong.

The key to this game plan is it's a team plan - and look at the AFL advanced stats ... you had 54 "one percenters" last night. Hawthorn had 45.

You also won the tackle count - and in the equivalent games last year, you lost that too.

With Davis, Garland, Frawley, Magner, McDonald and Bartram you've got the core of a team that can play to this plan.

 

[Dory_77]

I think we have issues with players and the gameplan. The players are lazy and drop off easily when things go bad. The gameplan is new, so it is confusing and the players are unsure of what to do exactly. Hence, the gameplan starts to fall apart, things go bad, and the players stop giving a shit.
I think the comparisons with GC are good. They are still very much developing, and despite their recent good form I can't see them winning too many. But they try and try and try, even when they're being flogged. Having Ablett as captain to lead by example would help, but even with him not there they've been excellent. campaigner looks like he really cares every time he plays. GWS have shown this too. Our guys stop caring once it hits the fan.

 

[Unleash Hell]

Excellent comments by Dory, IanW, Syrus & Crusty

Its going to be a tough long shite year based on what we've seen so far. But I think it will be good in the long run for the MFC.

The simple fact is the player are either in-capable or too unfit to play the game plan effectively at the moment.

Our skills are really hurting us as well at the moment - if we win the ball we turn it over way too easily - we need more class in the middle and down back.

 

[RandB]

The simple fact is the player are either in-capable or too unfit to play the game plan effectively at the moment.

Our skills are really hurting us as well at the moment - if we win the ball we turn it over way too easily - we need more class in the middle and down back.

I think it is simpler than that tbh. We simply aren't fit enough to play to AFL standard. When Misson came to the club he was in shock at how far behind we were and that had nothing to do with the game plan in mind.

Having said that we still have a situation where some players are busting a gut and some are coasting. Sad to see.

 

[IanW]

I think it is simpler than that tbh. We simply aren't fit enough to play to AFL standard. When Misson came to the club he was in shock at how far behind we were and that had nothing to do with the game plan in mind.

Having said that we still have a situation where some players are busting a gut and some are coasting. Sad to see.

Not really. It makes decisions as to who to cut so much easier.

Four quarters of consistent effort = selection.

Four quarters of consistent effort = a new contract.

The players will get the hint pretty rapidly, and once you get a team that tries all the time, then you can look at moving on the players whose skill level isnt up to AFL standard.

 

[RandB]

Not really. It makes decisions as to who to cut so much easier.

That's fine come end of the year but for the next 15 games the worst thing to have to watch is the honest toilers get let down by the players who don't give a rats.

Untill the season is over where we address this, 2012 will be one long drawn out affair, of course it's sad to see. The honest players don't deserve that.

 

[CowboyFromHell]

I think it is simpler than that tbh. We simply aren't fit enough to play to AFL standard. When Misson came to the club he was in shock at how far behind we were and that had nothing to do with the game plan in mind.

Having said that we still have a situation where some players are busting a gut and some are coasting. Sad to see.

And that is further proof that, under Bailey we were amateurish at best.

The sooner we accept that our list is poor and that it will take a year, even two, to clear it out the better off we will be supporting the club. I hate losing as much as anyone but expecting any different right now is naive at best.

 

[IanW]

That's fine come end of the year but for the next 15 games the worst thing to have to watch is the honest toilers get let down by the players who don't give a rats.

Untill the season is over where we address this, 2012 will be one long drawn out affair, of course it's sad to see. The honest players don't deserve that.

No. The honest toilers will get to watch the players who dont give a rats playing for Casey.

Mark Neeld was prepared to drop Jack Watts. No one is safe.

 

[RandB]

No. The honest toilers will get to watch the players who dont give a rats playing for Casey.

Mark Neeld was prepared to drop Jack Watts. No one is safe.

We've had not enough players put in pretty much every game so far this year (except for maybe the Saints game) and it won't change dramatically this year regardless of how many players we drop. 1 or 2 might genuinely respond but that doesn't scrape the surface.

A cultural shift is required to fix this, dropping players might feel great but it won't fix our problems during the year it will only give us more clarity at the end of the year. We dropped Watts, big deal, he like any player sent to Casey has to respond - dropping him is the easy bit.

 

[IanW]

BY the way, for this game plan, you dont want to have a player who averages 5 contested possessions, 0.6 one percenters, 72% disposal efficiency, 2.2 clangers a game and 1.6 clearances.

You should be glad of the cleared cap room and the two picks

 

[Dee31]

Having said that we still have a situation where some players are busting a gut and some are coasting. Sad to see.

But is it really surprising to any of us who have watched those players throughout their careers?

Jamar had one banner season, before that he was continually disappointing and now he's gone back to his previous form. Col Sylvia has never been willing to put in consistently and should have been traded 3 years ago; Flash has always been one-sided, reliant on explosive pace to get him out of trouble (pace which he has lost enough of to bring him back to the back) and physically underwhelming; Beamer has always been a powerful plodder who needs the ball in front of him to make an impact and Greeny has just gotten too old to play the undersized key forward role he's been forced into. Even if those guys aren't playing, they're still the nucleus of our team and we need to let them go if we want to progress. I also am firmly of the opinion that those players have been allowed to coast by an element within the club that has been there far too long, has never been involved in a successful club and needs to be removed ASAP. I will never judge Bailey as harshly as others because, along with the team, he inherited Schwab and that was more than any coach; especially a first-timer, could manage.

End of the day, I don't think we need to simply weed out the players who can't or won't do what's required, I think we also need to exorcise the club of a particularly unhealthy, self-important and self-indulgent influence. Lets forget about re-branding and marketing and focus on putting together a squad of players with guts and skill.

 

[SuburbanMe]

I'm bumping this thread because last night's game was the first Dees match I've been able to attend this season. And I've figured out exactly what our gameplan is.

We try and win the contested possession, then hand it over, and spend the rest of the time trying to tackle the opposition until they either miss the set shot or kick a goal.

I know Neeld is trying to show these idiots a more defensive style of play, but when we give up more than 100 possessions in less than a half of football, maybe something needs to change. There still seems to be no plan coming out of defense. The players looked confused about where to go or who to kick it to, and ultimately they just look for Jamar who is 1 on 3 nearly everytime. The players simply aren't working hard enough to create space. I can't recall anyone having a decent run and carry last night and around the stoppages Hawthorn seemed to always have 1 or 2 more players.

Watching them live for the first time last night proved to me that it's a mixture of two things. The gameplan is too defensive and confusing with little room for a counter attack. And the players are simply lazy. No one is creating space when we have the ball, and no one is willing to take any risks whatsoever. It is terrible to watch. Awful.

You do realise that Neeldy isn't sending them out there with Winning being the first thing on his mind right?

He's even said as much, so before anyone jumps on me - go read his quotes, watch his pressers - it's all there.

He's not going out there to lose, but winning isn't his main priority at the moment, getting the players to LEARN their job is his #1 priority.

You can't see his gameplan - because it's only in it's first stage. I'm not sure how many times this needs to be said before people wrap their scones around it. The preseason was all fitness, the season is defense, and we have to wait and see what the next preseason and after that Season 2013 will offer before we can even start to really say what we're seeing.

Don't get me wrong Crusty - I'm not having a crack at ya, just heard too many demons supporters talking shit like they have the mind of fish and forget how long Neeldy has been at the helm.

Too many people (especially BF posters), but even in the general footy community constantly say how they are realists, but they expect us to win. In what freaking world/universe/multiverse is that being realistic?

 

[Dee31]

You can't see his gameplan - because it's only in it's first stage. I'm not sure how many times this needs to be said before people wrap their scones around it. The preseason was all fitness, the season is defense, and we have to wait and see what the next preseason and after that Season 2013 will offer before we can even start to really say what we're seeing.

Sorry mate, I can't agree with that. If there is a specific game plan then we will see evidence of it. That would mean we see structures being put in place or tactics carried out (or attempted). What you're talking about is the overall vision Neeldy has for the way football is approached at MFC. That's different to a game plan which is specifically how we function during a game (move the ball; deliver to the forward line; kick out; organise the team; work at stoppages, etc).

I've got no problem with that long-term approach if it is well articulated. I'd love it if we were winning matches (given our playing stocks I certainly don't expect it) but I've seen enough bad years to be willing to put up with a bit more pain if I can see it's heading in the right direction. That said, if Schwab isn't disposed of then win, lose or draw, I won't ever believe we're improving as a club.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

You do realise that Neeldy isn't sending them out there with winning being the first thing on his mind right?

He's even said as much, so before anyone jumps on me - go read his quotes, watch his pressers - it's all there.

He's not going out there to lose, but winning isn't his main priority at the moment, getting the players to LEARN their job is his #1 priority.

You can't see his gameplan - because it's only in it's first stage. I'm not sure how many times this needs to be said. The preseason was all fitness, the season is defence, and we have to wait and see what the next preseason and after that Season 2013 will offer before we can even start to really say what we're seeing.

Too many people (especially BF posters), but even in the general footy community constantly say how they are realists, but they expect us to win. In what freaking world/universe/multiverse is that being realistic?

Overall, this is exactly right mate.

Although obviously you need to add contested ball and clearances to defence as the three areas we're focusing on most this year.

In fact, although we certainly took a big step back last week, as I've said in my previews up to that point, we've been achieving consistent improvement in all facets of our game - except for our zonal pressure and kick-ins, and the fact that disposal efficiency overall was progressing far more slowly. But it too has been progressing.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

Jamar had one banner season, before that he was continually disappointing and now he's gone back to his previous form.

I would strongly disagree about the big Russian. He's done his job. He's dominated in the ruck every week, and clearly so.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

No. The honest toilers will get to watch the players who dont give a rats playing for Casey.

Well said

Again Ian, though we're obviously in stark disagreement about West Sydney, you're clearly a knowledgeable supporter, and continue to make good and valuable contributions around our board. As I said before, I do appreciate this...

 

[HarveyWallbanger]

You do realise that Neeldy isn't sending them out there with Winning being the first thing on his mind right?

He's even said as much, so before anyone jumps on me - go read his quotes, watch his pressers - it's all there.

He's not going out there to lose, but winning isn't his main priority at the moment, getting the players to LEARN their job is his #1 priority.

You can't see his gameplan - because it's only in it's first stage. I'm not sure how many times this needs to be said before people wrap their scones around it. The preseason was all fitness, the season is defense, and we have to wait and see what the next preseason and after that Season 2013 will offer before we can even start to really say what we're seeing.

Don't get me wrong Crusty - I'm not having a crack at ya, just heard too many demons supporters talking shit like they have the mind of fish and forget how long Neeldy has been at the helm.

Too many people (especially BF posters), but even in the general footy community constantly say how they are realists, but they expect us to win. In what freaking world/universe/multiverse is that being realistic?

Absolute horse sh*t.

I don't expect them to win as I understand new coach, new gameplan etc.

I do however, expect a performance, week in week out, that shows some ticker. Fridays nights game was a complete disgrace.

 

[CTHORANGE]

I assume our game plan, like others have said, is in stage 1. I think this stage is for every player on the list to learn how to win their own ball, contest and defend. Once they have those basic skills they will then start to get roles to develop into, hence some guys will become outside players who will spread and provide link, but can still get their own footy if they have to.

Previously we had players who could run and spread but do nothing else. And conversely we had guys who could get the ball out, but nothing else. Neeld wants a basic level of skills across all players. We have to suck it up and realise we wont be seeing improvements until the second half of this year and into next year when other components of the game plan start getting added.

He has said constantly that he wanted to go back to square one and start again. What we are seeing is not close to the ultimate game plan, its just the base and with no bells and whistles we are struggling, but it'll come good, I'm thinking their progress will increase exponentially once we have the base he wants.

 

[Crusty Demon]

You do realise that Neeldy isn't sending them out there with Winning being the first thing on his mind right?

He's even said as much, so before anyone jumps on me - go read his quotes, watch his pressers - it's all there.

He's not going out there to lose, but winning isn't his main priority at the moment, getting the players to LEARN their job is his #1 priority.

You can't see his gameplan - because it's only in it's first stage. I'm not sure how many times this needs to be said before people wrap their scones around it. The preseason was all fitness, the season is defense, and we have to wait and see what the next preseason and after that Season 2013 will offer before we can even start to really say what we're seeing.

Don't get me wrong Crusty - I'm not having a crack at ya, just heard too many demons supporters talking shit like they have the mind of fish and forget how long Neeldy has been at the helm.

Too many people (especially BF posters), but even in the general footy community constantly say how they are realists, but they expect us to win. In what freaking world/universe/multiverse is that being realistic?

I hear you mate. And I guess the reason I bumped this thread was to discuss what we have seen this season so far. It wasn't intended to highlight Neeld's vision for the future, as we honestly have no idea what that entails. But what I have seen so far this year, is that Neeld is teaching them to win the contested ball, but there seems to be no plan of what the players are supposed to do after they win that ball. Skills seem to be well down, run and spread is non existent and as much as the players have said it was the toughest pre season in years, fitness levels aren't good enough.

I'm a Neeld fan. I'm not having a crack at him. I want him to succeed and I believe he can get us up the ladder. But based on what I've seen this season, and we can only comment on what we have seen, the gameplan is far too one dimensional. We clearly have an issue with keeping possession, so why hasn't that improved? We are getting smashed every week in possession count. The Hawthorn game was an absolute disgrace. If we are winning the contested ball every week, we should be getting close to the opposition's possession count right?

 

[SuburbanMe]

Absolute horse sh*t.

I don't expect them to win as I understand new coach, new gameplan etc.

I do however, expect a performance, week in week out, that shows some ticker. Fridays nights game was a complete disgrace.

What exactly is Horse shit?

We see a performance each week - if you watch the game - you can see the subtle changes being made.

 

[SuburbanMe]

I hear you mate. And I guess the reason I bumped this thread was to discuss what we have seen this season so far. It wasn't intended to highlight Neeld's vision for the future, as we honestly have no idea what that entails. But what I have seen so far this year, is that Neeld is teaching them to win the contested ball, but there seems to be no plan of what the players are supposed to do after they win that ball. Skills seem to be well down, run and spread is non existent and as much as the players have said it was the toughest pre season in years, fitness levels aren't good enough.

I'm a Neeld fan. I'm not having a crack at him. I want him to succeed and I believe he can get us up the ladder. But based on what I've seen this season, and we can only comment on what we have seen, the gameplan is far too one dimensional. We clearly have an issue with keeping possession, so why hasn't that improved? We are getting smashed every week in possession count. The Hawthorn game was an absolute disgrace. If we are winning the contested ball every week, we should be getting close to the opposition's possession count right?

Perhaps he's focussing on contested possession, and once we get off our arses consistently, he will have a seasons worth of game time to show them where they are falling down? I can't answer what's happening - wish I could, but Neeld knows what's going on.

We all wish we could see more development (wins), but there's alot to work on. I do believe (deep down inside) that next season WILL be different. It'll be a different team mentally.

 

[maxmustard]

Just a thought, if the plan this year is primarily about defense and "structures", how come we can't defend for shit? We are so easy to attack against, when the ball gets into space we have no idea how to stop it. Our actual defenders are good too, easily the strongest area of our list and i feel for them battling away back there. Also without Frawley beating everyone he plays on things would be significantly worse.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

In one-on-one defensive marking we've done well enough, I'd say. But our zonal pressure continues to be rubbish, because our coordination in those zones is dire, and our run and spread is equally so.

 

[HarveyWallbanger]

What exactly is Horse shit?

We see a performance each week - if you watch the game - you can see the subtle changes being made.

Horsesh*t. The thing that comes out of a horses bum. Akin to the constant talk and tripe about rebuilding, and, give it time, and the send them out there not to win.

If you don't have a chance to win and you aren't even going out there to win, why the heck bother turning up????? Losing mentality from the get go and nothing will ever change that.

Did you see the bombers supporters accept the tripe dished up under Matty Knights? No????? Is it because they are used to winning and have pride in doing so???????? They were calling for blood when their performances were rubbish. They got it and now have a look at them - hard, physical and uncompromising.

Subtle changes - pppfffttttt........if we didn't BUY Mitch Clark our club should have seriously merged or applied for a VFL permit. We are that bad. Non competitive. Even when in the lead at qrt time Friday, we had had 1/2 the amount of possessions as the opposition. If the Dawks had kicked straight the scoreboard would have been worse than Geelong last year!!!!!!!!

I don't care if we lose, just so long as an effort is shown. And Friday night effort was worse than pathetic.

So how long is the new gameplan and rebuild going to take? Longer than the Bailey timeframe? Please advise as I will buy a rebuy a membership when some heart is shown.If the same horsesh*t continues, I predict 2013 will be the lowest membership ever for the Dees and everyone I talk to feels the same.

I say all of this with a passion - because I love the Dees. But they are the ones calling time out from the relationship at the moment. Be careful - people tend not to come back after a "break".

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

I predict 2013 will be the lowest membership ever for the Dees and everyone I talk to feels the same.

Yes, that's such an accurate and insightful analysis. We will clearly lose 20,000 or more members next year, after having set six consecutive membership records up to this point. Everyone knows that

For ****'s sake.

There's acknowledging that we're dire on the field right now, and then there's putting the boot in for the hell of it. As far as I can see, that post and the previous one from this person are very obviously in the second category.

In other words, horsesh*t. A big steaming pile of it.