Roast Our general fitness, strength and conditioning.

[Vander18]

Take Hooker & Heppell for example; two of our most experienced players and leaders, but through injury have never been the guys out there pushing the limits at training and on-field.

I agree with you by and large but not sure this is entirely fair.

Say what you will about Heppell but the dude is absoloutely shredded and has always been a top ten time trial runner (FWIW at our club). Hooker is an absolute beast who clearly sets standards on the gym.

You need some blokes with those freakish physical traits and we just haven’t drafted them.

 

[FlyingV]

I think genetics is as big an issue as the setting of standards. You don’t turn blokes into elite runners unless the underlying capability is there. Selwood was a very good middle distance runner as a kid, he’s built that way.

Shiel, Saad, Smith and McGrath (off the top of my head) all seem like real pros who do the work but none of them is an elite endurance runner. That’s because it’s not part of their athletic profile.

We simply haven’t drafted blokes with great athletic profiles. It really helps to have some sort of dominant physical trait as a player - whether that be speed, strength or endurance. Only a very small number on our list have any such trait and even fewer combine multiple traits.

McKenna was the best blend of speed and endurance on our list and he’s gone!

What a great post, this has summed up one of our issues really well imo.
Side note look how long it has taken us to get Francis’ tank up to a passable standard. Now that could be his application to training but he clearly doesn’t have a strong aerobic capability to work with. To a lesser extent same probably goes with Parish who doesn’t appear to be a racehorse and could be why we persevered with him in the forward line so long

 

[eth-dog]

I think genetics is as big an issue as the setting of standards. You don’t turn blokes into elite runners unless the underlying capability is there. Selwood was a very good middle distance runner as a kid, he’s built that way.

Shiel, Saad, Smith and McGrath (off the top of my head) all seem like real pros who do the work but none of them is an elite endurance runner. That’s because it’s not part of their athletic profile.

We simply haven’t drafted blokes with great athletic profiles. It really helps to have some sort of dominant physical trait as a player - whether that be speed, strength or endurance. Only a very small number on our list have any such trait and even fewer combine multiple traits.

McKenna was the best blend of speed and endurance on our list and he’s gone!

I'd add Snelling to that list. He covers a lot of ground and whilst he doesn't have McKenna's pace he's definitely on the quicker side of average.

 

[WindyHillWarrior]

And it would have been on the back of dodgy practices.

Correct.

I do think their training philosophies formed the nucleus of it, but the supplements sped up the ability to adapt. Hence my window allowing an extra 2 years to load more naturally.

 

[NAB777]

I think genetics is as big an issue as the setting of standards. You don’t turn blokes into elite runners unless the underlying capability is there. Selwood was a very good middle distance runner as a kid, he’s built that way.

Shiel, Saad, Smith and McGrath (off the top of my head) all seem like real pros who do the work but none of them is an elite endurance runner. That’s because it’s not part of their athletic profile.

We simply haven’t drafted blokes with great athletic profiles. It really helps to have some sort of dominant physical trait as a player - whether that be speed, strength or endurance. Only a very small number on our list have any such trait and even fewer combine multiple traits.

McKenna was the best blend of speed and endurance on our list and he’s gone!

Agree with a lot of this. Cameron Ling, case in point. Chubby full forward, until Geelong watched him do do a 16 odd beep test.

An ex-team mate of mine ended up playing 200+ AFL games, mainly due to his engine. Not overly skilful, but tough & could just go & go & got to contest after contest. Turned up to his first AFL pre-season & was 1st or 2nd in all of the running parts of training.

 

[eDPS]

Another issue (might) be; how many of our senior players are examples of elite fitness?

Our top games played are (in order, and > 100 games)

1. Zaharakis
2. Hooker
3. Hurley
4. Heppell
5. Shiel*
6. Smith*
7. Merrett
8. Bellchambers
9. Stringer*
10. Saad*
11. Daniher
12. McDonald - Tipungwuti

4 of them aren't from EFC, and of those who are Zaharakis is the only one you would argue is potentially elite fitness wise. Maybe Merrett.

Pretty much everyone else on that list has had injury issues and aren't really known for their fitness, or in the case of AMT isn't the guy who's going to be out the front setting the standards in training.

So you've got a guy in Zaharakis who's borderline best-22, and Merrett who has question marks on his two-way efforts.

Compared to Selwood setting the standard in-training and in-game for the past decade at Geelong.

We're going to be very reliant on guys like Shiel, Smith, Saad and McGrath moving forward imo - all are competitive and seem invested in setting high standards (though Smith has his moments).

We'd love a Nick Reiwoldt type forward right now, a KPF who will just run their heart out each and every week.

Harrison Jones is your man, runs all day and competes. He will be a tough matchup in a few years once he puts on some muscle.

 

[owen87]

Harrison Jones is your man, runs all day and competes. He will be a tough matchup in a few years once he puts on some muscle.

I hope so, seems like a good kid from what we've seen too.

 

[Vander18]

Agree with a lot of this. Cameron Ling, case in point. Chubby full forward, until Geelong watched him do do a 16 odd beep test.

An ex-team mate of mine ended up playing 200+ AFL games, mainly due to his engine. Not overly skilful, but tough & could just go & go & got to contest after contest. Turned up to his first AFL pre-season & was 1st or 2nd in all of the running parts of training.

Said teammate of yours also cracked in all day - he was an unconditional footballer. Another thing we could use more of!

 

[Squeaky]

Said teammate of yours also cracked in all day - he was an unconditional footballer. Another thing we could use more of!

I agree but you know what will happen:
More flakey flankers on the way, Vander!

 

[RedmanWasHere]

Who's NAB's mate?

 

[NAB777]

Who's NAB's mate?

Oh, just a guy who played a bit of footy. Not going to name him on here, he wasn't a bomber player anyhow.

 

[babydoll]

Agree with a lot of this. Cameron Ling, case in point. Chubby full forward, until Geelong watched him do do a 16 odd beep test.

An ex-team mate of mine ended up playing 200+ AFL games, mainly due to his engine. Not overly skilful, but tough & could just go & go & got to contest after contest. Turned up to his first AFL pre-season & was 1st or 2nd in all of the running parts of training.

Who remembers Stanton? A pack a day and still the fittest bloke at the club at 31 yo until Ambrose took over the reign.

 

[The Dustbin]

Daniel Cross

Daniel Cross

Age

41

Ht

187cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.3

5star

K

8.5

3star

HB

14.8

5star

M

5.2

5star

T

4.3

5star

CL

3.0

4star

No current season stats available

D

3.2

1star

K

1.6

1star

HB

1.6

2star

M

1.0

1star

T

0.6

3star

has departed Melbourne. Get him in now as fitness/high performance coach.

 

[ghostdog]

Thought I'd reprise this thread.
Maybe nothing in it, maybe something; Snell and Stewart both with calf injuries. What significance has this, I am not sure.

 

[Wahooti Fandango]

I've touched on this before but it's a joke. We have the most players under 80 kg on an AFL list. We regularly get beaten around the ball. Usually the trade off for being lighter is that you have a larger aerobic capacity but that doesn't seem to be true either considering we haven't really put in a 4 quarter effort this season.

BrunoV has said it so many times, it's as if since the saga we're afraid of putting muscle on players. Hell, we're afraid of putting these guys through proper conditioning! We're standing around, hoping that it'll all come through.

The average weight of our list is 83 kg. The median weight is 87 kg, which isn't too bad, but if you take out the KPP's the average drops to 81.9 kg and the median 83 kg. I was hopeful that whe we brought the Hawthorne guy in, someone who built their physical conditioning to basically the best in the league for a 5 year stretch we'd be better at this but it hasn't changed at all.

But what's the modal weight? We need to cover all our bases when it comes to matters of central tendency. But to be serious for a second, you make a good point.

 

[ant555]

How good did Clarke look as a midfielder yesterday ? did not get near it. Sorry but you are hanging your hat on yet another late pick that was drafted based on he may be able to improve a flaw in his game. What we are doing with Clarke is totally irrelevant to the issues the list has. Well not totally the fact we drafted him has caused an issue. Should never have looked at a bloke who struggles to kick the ball. Lets face it we are talking about a bloke taken at pick 63. In many ways it was a better move to see what he could do as a forward as we do not need any more butchers in the midfield.

Should have taken my man form that draft in Mitch Lewis. Not a midfielder but he would have filled a hole in the forward line. And yes I can say that as he was one I mentioned before the draft.

As far as managing long term injuries go I still think you are yelling at the wrong cloud. Laverde has had a few soft tissue issues but in the last few seasons it has been impact injuries with his ankle that has been the problem. There is nothing anyone could have done about his last injury. Bellchambers has had knee soreness that has kept him out more often than not. If you look into it we actually do not have more soft tissues than any other club at various stages.

 

[Yoda_]

Same s**t different year


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[ant555]

Same s**t different year


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What do we have exactly. Three soft tissue injuries , one tendon tear and the rest impact injuries.
Most clubs now have 2 to 4 soft tissue injures and a foot or hip or shoulder etc.
Eagles have 5 ankle injuries , ouch.
We went out to get Murphy from the Hawks because he worked with Andrew Russell as second in charge during their premiership years.

 

[Yoda_]

What do we have exactly. Three soft tissue injuries , one tendon tear and the rest impact injuries.
Most clubs now have 2 to 4 soft tissue injures and a foot or hip or shoulder etc.
Eagles have 5 ankle injuries , ouch.
We went out to get Murphy from the Hawks because he worked with Andrew Russell as second in charge during their premiership years.

ITs the same recurring issues we tend to have that is the frustrating thing. Not just soft tissue but the stress fractures / hot spots as well.


He is obviously good at his job but questions need to be asked of the whole department. Not just Murphy in particular. Last year feels like an arbitration (very minimal injuries)

 

[Lore]

ITs the same recurring issues we tend to have that is the frustrating thing. Not just soft tissue but the stress fractures / hot spots as well.


He is obviously good at his job but questions need to be asked of the whole department. Not just Murphy in particular. Last year feels like an arbitration (very minimal injuries)

We were missing 12 players this time last year, then Ridley got concussed and Reid got glandular fever the following week.

Going into Round 5 this year, there are 8 ruled out and two are test to be available.

 

[ant555]

ITs the same recurring issues we tend to have that is the frustrating thing. Not just soft tissue but the stress fractures / hot spots as well.


He is obviously good at his job but questions need to be asked of the whole department. Not just Murphy in particular. Last year feels like an arbitration (very minimal injuries)

We have had no worse luck than anyone else on this front.
As for questions being asked how often do you want to change all the staff ? we have actually had a very big turnover of fitness staff in the last 2 to 3 years.

 

[ghostdog]

ITs the same recurring issues we tend to have that is the frustrating thing. Not just soft tissue but the stress fractures / hot spots as well.


He is obviously good at his job but questions need to be asked of the whole department. Not just Murphy in particular. Last year feels like an arbitration (very minimal injuries)

Health and fitness is one of those areas where currency of practice is just as important as the quality of staff. It doesn't necessarily have to be solely a staff issue. It could simply be a matter of knowing and applying best, evidence-based practice.

Does the club invest in the professional development of the health and conditioning staff to ensure currency of best practice?

 

[Lore]

Health and fitness is one of those areas where currency of practice is just as important as the quality of staff. It doesn't necessarily have to be solely a staff issue. It could simply be a matter of knowing and applying best, evidence-based practice.

Does the club invest in the professional development of the health and conditioning staff to ensure currency of best practice?

When Joe Daniher and James Stewart went to Ireland in 2019 one of the club physios went with them to learn new methods to support players with OP. I don't know if that physio is still with the club though, and that was before the massive covid budget cuts to the football department soft cap.

 

[ghostdog]

When Joe Daniher and James Stewart went to Ireland in 2019 one of the club physios went with them to learn new methods to support players with OP. I don't know if that physio is still with the club though, and that was before the massive covid budget cuts to the football department soft cap.

Yeah I remember that.

The rise of syndesmosis injuries is probably worth looking at. I read somewhere that changes in knee strapping is what may have given impetus to a rise in syndesmosis injuries, but this is the kind of thing I would hope the club has our health/fitness/conditioning staff attending professional learning in.

 

[Mootsy]

gary ablett senior could have been an on-baller midfielder.
always dominated when he went up the ground.