Roast Our goal kicking coach (Gia) is not working out....

Jun 27, 2013
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Our forward structure has been basically non-existent this year.
In our losses they've all pressed up the ground to help our midfield when we are struggling then we have no one to kick to when we do get it at half forward. Or we have played small and been outmarked regularly (common theme in our Hawthorn, Norf and GWS losses)

Tonight was the former, we lost all structure because our half forwards ran upfield trying to help the midfield out. Ruggles, Bartel, Henderson etc had field days down back tonight. On the rare occasion someone brought it to ground we had no one at the drop of the ball and Geelongs rebounders mopped up time and time again.

There has to be a happy medium with the team in regards to attacking like keeping the structure in place so we aren't outmarked, but being able to do it at ground level also and keep the pressure up. It's just non-existent in losses.

I was a big fan of men of mayhem last year, bring it back and make teams turn it over in our forward half again, even if it's only for a quarter of each game due to the energy demands it requires, the surprise element is the big thing and many a scoreboard damage can be done in that amount of time.
 

Proffessor

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Clearly we need to do something to improve our pathetic goal kicking, but I'm not sure that Gia should take too much of the blame.

Many of our players have poor kicking technique which is exposed under the pressure of kicking for goal, and a lot of our players simply tighten up and choke.

Our coaching team needs to help them solve it, but the primary responsibility needs to fall on the players. They are full time professionals, who are failing at a fundamental skill of the sport.

If there is a positive to come out of this game, it could be that some of them finally focus on overcoming what is a serious deficiency in their game. Up until this point it appears that they haven't been doing anything significant to fix it.
 

bobby2

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Jun 19, 2015
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In our losses they've all pressed up the ground to help our midfield when we are struggling then we have no one to kick to when we do get it at half forward. Or we have played small and been outmarked regularly (common theme in our Hawthorn, Norf and GWS losses)

Tonight was the former, we lost all structure because our half forwards ran upfield trying to help the midfield out. Ruggles, Bartel, Henderson etc had field days down back tonight. On the rare occasion someone brought it to ground we had no one at the drop of the ball and Geelongs rebounders mopped up time and time again.

There has to be a happy medium with the team in regards to attacking like keeping the structure in place so we aren't outmarked, but being able to do it at ground level also and keep the pressure up. It's just non-existent in losses.

I was a big fan of men of mayhem last year, bring it back and make teams turn it over in our forward half again, even if it's only for a quarter of each game due to the energy demands it requires, the surprise element is the big thing and many a scoreboard damage can be done in that amount of time.
Something something great minds :p I just posted something similar in the autopsy thread. The shock factor of men of mayhem could really be a match winner for us. Teams come out expecting us to outnumber around the contest and set up accordingly defensively, and then boom! Their entire gameplan is in disarray.
 

murphy2bedabest

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Gia got the job coz we couldn't afford anyone else

We have the basis of a very very good team so let's go and get a real forward coach and stop the jobs for mates.
What do you see as the main failure of our forward line ? What can be fixed ? And why GIA isn't that person for the job?
 
In our losses they've all pressed up the ground to help our midfield when we are struggling then we have no one to kick to when we do get it at half forward. Or we have played small and been outmarked regularly (common theme in our Hawthorn, Norf and GWS losses)

This, spot on...
 

Next Waiting

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In our losses they've all pressed up the ground to help our midfield when we are struggling then we have no one to kick to when we do get it at half forward. Or we have played small and been outmarked regularly (common theme in our Hawthorn, Norf and GWS losses)

Tonight was the former, we lost all structure because our half forwards ran upfield trying to help the midfield out. Ruggles, Bartel, Henderson etc had field days down back tonight. On the rare occasion someone brought it to ground we had no one at the drop of the ball and Geelongs rebounders mopped up time and time again.
I agree that it was the former yesterday and to compound the problem our best 2 run and carry line breakers from half back are out with injury. It compounds it because with the forwards up to help the struggling midfielders and no one to kick to forward if we win it back, the best way to effectively get the ball forward and negate their free defenders is to run it at and through them. Or ability to run through the ground has been severely compromised with Murph and JJ out and is taking away one method of overcoming a situation where our midfield is getting beaten, as it was yesterday.
 
Jun 27, 2013
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I agree that it was the former yesterday and to compound the problem our best 2 run and carry line breakers from half back are out with injury. It compounds it because with the forwards up to help the struggling midfielders and no one to kick to forward if we win it back, the best way to effectively get the ball forward and negate their free defenders is to run it at and through them. Or ability to run through the ground has been severely compromised with Murph and JJ out and is taking away one method of overcoming a situation where our midfield is getting beaten, as it was yesterday.
Yep, I was saying in the stands last night if we play this way we need pace and we need a Suckling/Stringer type across half forward free to finish the job.

Run it through their zone then have a ping from 50 takes out their loose defenders, I don't like playing that way but against an experienced side like Geelong it potentially can work.

Funny last night 4 of our 5 goals came from 45-55m out, only Jong goaled from within 30m, the 3rd quarter they used their brains but the rest of the game, nope.

FWIW Geelong nailed 8 goals that were of low probability, 6 of their goals came from at least 45m out while Hawkins nailed 2 extremely difficult shots from the pocket also, it was a charmed night out for them in that regard
 

Next Waiting

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Yep, I was saying in the stands last night if we play this way we need pace and we need a Suckling/Stringer type across half forward free to finish the job.

Run it through their zone then have a ping from 50 takes out their loose defenders, I don't like playing that way but against an experienced side like Geelong it potentially can work.

Funny last night 4 of our 5 goals came from 45-55m out, only Jong goaled from within 30m, the 3rd quarter they used their brains but the rest of the game, nope.

FWIW Geelong nailed 8 goals that were of low probability, 6 of their goals came from at least 45m out while Hawkins nailed 2 extremely difficult shots from the pocket also, it was a charmed night out for them in that regard
I think if we're losing the midfield and we're up against a quality team it's one way, perhaps even the best way, of getting out of it. If we're winning the midfield and clearances it becomes less of an issue as weight of (quality) possession will eventually tell in our favour.
Stringer looks very threatening in the midfield and personally I'd like to see him in there more as he can clear the ball either by foot or run. He, Libba, Bont, Dahl and Daniel are our most attacking and threatening combination in there in my view but obviously they can't be there all the time. I'd like to see that combination in there when the game is in the balance however.
 
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I dont think Ive had less confidence in a good player to kick a set shot than I do in Hunter. Of course theres guys like Rough (who is absolutely deplorable and its the main thing holding him back from going to another level, his forward work has been good but its all for ******* nothing when he cant kick a drop punt from 15m out) but at least its sort of expected from your ruck. For a reasonably skilful midfielder Hunters set shots are just plain unacceptable, unfortunately hes not alone :(
 

Proffessor

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Yep, I was saying in the stands last night if we play this way we need pace and we need a Suckling/Stringer type across half forward free to finish the job.

Run it through their zone then have a ping from 50 takes out their loose defenders, I don't like playing that way but against an experienced side like Geelong it potentially can work.

Funny last night 4 of our 5 goals came from 45-55m out, only Jong goaled from within 30m, the 3rd quarter they used their brains but the rest of the game, nope.

FWIW Geelong nailed 8 goals that were of low probability, 6 of their goals came from at least 45m out while Hawkins nailed 2 extremely difficult shots from the pocket also, it was a charmed night out for them in that regard

The fact that they kicked well for goal, just highlights how poor our Goal kicking is. We continually miss easy shots and rarely kick even moderately difficult shots.

We should be nailing the easy shots with a high percentage and give ourselves fair chance of success with the moderate shots.
 
Jun 27, 2013
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The fact that they kicked well for goal, just highlights how poor our Goal kicking is. We continually miss easy shots and rarely kick even moderately difficult shots.

We should be nailing the easy shots with a high percentage and give ourselves fair chance of success with the moderate shots.
I agree, it was disappointing but seemed to be a common theme the whole night, particularly in the first half

IMO it's a mental/confidence thing, nothing more. We came off a 15.10 game last week for example

IMO Hunter is the player who needs the most work on his conversion, the rest have shown they are capable
 
IMO it's a mental/confidence thing, nothing more. We came off a 15.10 game last week for example

Of course its mental which is why it needs to be addressed before finals.

Against crappy sides like Port, they aren't gonna choke, but in big games like Sat night against Geelong and even in finals last year against Adelaide, then its really deflating for the team if they miss easy shots non stop.
 

Proffessor

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I agree, it was disappointing but seemed to be a common theme the whole night, particularly in the first half

IMO it's a mental/confidence thing, nothing more. We came off a 15.10 game last week for example

IMO Hunter is the player who needs the most work on his conversion, the rest have shown they are capable

It has been a common theme for the whole season, and I think it is worse than it looks from our scores. The reason for this is that we often pass up marginal shots at goal to spot up targets in the central corridor, plus we have a couple of players with very good accuracy that drag up the team average.

The amount of gimme goals that we have missed this year almost defies belief.
Although I agree that our problems are predominantly mental in origin, I also strongly believe the path to solving them is through improved technique.

Recognising that certain players tighten up badly when kicking for goal, they should be working on adjusting their technique in a manner that will diminish the impact of their nervous responses to stress when kicking for goal.
 
The forward setup is bad.. I don't know if people realised how important Crameri was in the structure last year playing as a second tall.

Our set shots still need work but I don't know if they teach kids how to kick through the ball anymore. The amount of times I see players lean away from the kick makes me believe they've forgotten the basics.
 

Mattdougie

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What do you see as the main failure of our forward line ? What can be fixed ? And why GIA isn't that person for the job?

Firstly quality isn't great. Apart from Stringer who is having an average year the others parlaying forwanrd arnt that great. Dickson Is a peaheart, Red is developing but not ready, Honey is average at best, Jong no comment. So we need more goals from our mids and they just arnt goal kickers.

We push up far too much and leave one big back against 3 so we either all need to push up and work back together or leave more than 1 at home. When our plan a struggles we push back to far to help our backs and leave our forwards exposed and they arnt quick so we can't even get over the back.

I've never liked Gia but the biggest issue with him is he has NEVER been to another club so how can he have learnt anything other than what the dogs have taught him? Every coach needs to learn his craft at a different club. Look at the senior coaches who have only stayed at one club and how they went, Buckley? Hird? Voss? It at ge same for line. coaches
 

Kony Abbott

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Yep, I was saying in the stands last night if we play this way we need pace and we need a Suckling/Stringer type across half forward free to finish the job.

Run it through their zone then have a ping from 50 takes out their loose defenders, I don't like playing that way but against an experienced side like Geelong it potentially can work.

Funny last night 4 of our 5 goals came from 45-55m out, only Jong goaled from within 30m, the 3rd quarter they used their brains but the rest of the game, nope.

FWIW Geelong nailed 8 goals that were of low probability, 6 of their goals came from at least 45m out while Hawkins nailed 2 extremely difficult shots from the pocket also, it was a charmed night out for them in that regard


I feel like suckling was brought in to address that problem but has been forced to play HB due to necessity.

Hopefully after the bye with JJ and wood he can play this role a bit more
 
I feel like suckling was brought in to address that problem but has been forced to play HB due to necessity.

Hopefully after the bye with JJ and wood he can play this role a bit more
Yep, this is a major by product of our injuries, other players are being forced to step up and play a role that they can do but isn't necessarily their strengths.
 

Bemoreboyddog

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So Sav Rocca reckons he can straighten bad kicks up. Would the club be willing to cough up $10k?

Personally think it's a great investment. Could make us a 20 point a game better side.
 

TiAn_

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So Sav Rocca reckons he can straighten bad kicks up. Would the club be willing to cough up $10k?

Personally think it's a great investment. Could make us a 20 point a game better side.

I heard him on the radio and he was advocating a full-time role. I'm not sure if he's keen to repeat the part-time role that he left at Carlton.

That aside, I would love to see him at our club. Goal kicking is a huge problem for a lot of our list.
 

Gollo

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We push up far too much and leave one big back against 3 so we either all need to push up and work back together or leave more than 1 at home. When our plan a struggles we push back to far to help our backs and leave our forwards exposed and they arnt quick so we can't even get over the back.

I've never liked Gia but the biggest issue with him is he has NEVER been to another club so how can he have learnt anything other than what the dogs have taught him? Every coach needs to learn his craft at a different club. Look at the senior coaches who have only stayed at one club and how they went, Buckley? Hird? Voss? It at ge same for line. coaches
I don't think you should class Hird with Bucks and Voss for coaches. Disregarding his obvious controversies, as a coach his mind for the game was just unbelievable, and I reckon he definitely could've rocketed the Bombers to a finals position had it not been for the supplements scandal. I agree that coaches should go far and wide for knowledge, but Hird was on another level.

And, no offence intended, but I'm pretty sure the coaching staff have a better idea of our press than you, or any of the posters on Bigfooty. There's a reason our team defence plays so high, and that's because it works really well. It's obvious when over-the-back goals come and it means people think that what the players are doing is wrong, however this is expected when you set-up with a press. Although you don't see it, the team defence stops way, way more attacks than one realises. And many clubs have caught on. Defending in a high-line press in in fashion right now, and we styled our setup from the Hawks who pioneered it. When it fails is when players don't work back hard enough, like you were saying, and it's the consistency in our work-rate which, I believe, needs to be addressed before the actual press itself.
 
So Sav Rocca reckons he can straighten bad kicks up. Would the club be willing to cough up $10k?

Personally think it's a great investment. Could make us a 20 point a game better side.
As long as it's incentive based... per set shot goals kicked in a game :p
 
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