Opinion Our Leaders?

Nov 11, 2010
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There's been some talk about our on-field leaders as of late by our supporters, players and even our coaches. Wanted to start a separate thread to discuss not only the current leaders but our future ones too?

Our current leadership group is as followed:

Captain: Tom Rockliff

Vice Captains: Daniel Rich, Dayne Beams, Pearce Hanley, Dayne Zorko and Daniel Merrett.

Now I'm of the belief that we seriously lack some genuine on-field and off-field leadership amongst our playing group.

As the sole Captain of our football club, I believe Rockliff is doing an okay job. He can probably cross the line a bit, but I think he's reformed in that sense. He certainly leads by example, but what's he like off it? To me, he comes off very good as a public speaker for us in the media. Something that is required as a captain. There's been a few suggesting that he may not be the right fit as captain. And to those people, I ask why? I have my own opinion's as to why some may feel like this but I'm also of the opinion that he probably needs a more experienced co-captain to help him out. But then again? Who else is there? I suppose that's the problem we face being such a young club.

On to our co captains, Dayne Beams has barely been on the park due to multiple injuries but has performed well and been vocal in the two times he had been out there.

Daniel Merrett has missed a couple of games and is very important to our young backline. He can do some silly things but the young defence we have around him seem a hell of a lot more confident playing with him then without. Backline just performs better with him there lightening the load on the kids.

Dayne Zorko has comfortably been our best and most consistent player across the 2016 season. He's at least setting an on-field example which is half the battle and something some of our other Vice-Captains are not doing. But what's he like off-field?

Daniel Rich has had an average year. There's no doubt that Rich is a cream on top of the cake sort of player that a club would love to have when challenging for a premiership. But that just doesn't cut it when your one of the more experienced players on our list and member of the leadership group. When he's on song, we play a hell of a lot better. But he goes missing far, far too much for a leader. Leaders are supposed to step up when the going gets tough. IMO, he's more of a barometer for us than a leader.

Pearce Hanley looks to be carrying some sort of niggle, his stats may not look too bad but he is certainly down on his line breaking best. He's certainly one of our most important players and is lethal when he is on song as we've seen consistently in the last 3 or so years. We seem to be seeing glimpses of what we all know he can do rather than consistency. Hip giving him some trouble perhaps? Been disappointing in a year that we've really needed our leaders to step up.


Future Leaders: We have some younger players that I feel have shown some leadership signs in Keays, McStay and Robertson. But are there any standout leaders on our list going forward? Feel Robbo screams leadership type going forward personally.

Interested in hearing some other thoughts. Discuss.
 
Nov 4, 2011
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2017 Captain: This inanimate carbon rod.

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I frankly wouldn't consider any of that group as being leaders, certainly none seems to be a natural one. We tend to rate our players as leaders simply based on ability or years/games played. When you think about it, that's a really poor measure of what makes a good leader. Some players play ten years and never reach the level. Some (like Cripps at Carlton and Joel Selwood) are there from the start. Some stars (Judd and Murphy) inherit the mantle by reason of their skill but aren't very good at it. We just don't seem to have leaders at the moment. We can blame it on the youth around them or their focus being too much on helping others, but I think the problem is we don't have people capable of leading us out of this at present. I suspect we don't have them off-field either.
 
Nov 11, 2010
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I frankly wouldn't consider any of that group as being leaders, certainly none seems to be a natural one. We tend to rate our players as leaders simply based on ability or years/games played. When you think about it, that's a really poor measure of what makes a good leader. Some players play ten years and never reach the level. Some (like Cripps at Carlton and Joel Selwood) are there from the start. Some stars (Judd and Murphy) inherit the mantle by reason of their skill but aren't very good at it. We just don't seem to have leaders at the moment. We can blame it on the youth around them or their focus being too much on helping others, but I think the problem is we don't have people capable of leading us out of this at present. I suspect we don't have them off-field either.

Essentially what I'm trying to get at. We lack leadership everywhere when you sit back and analyse it. It's a problem. Good leaders can make a hell of a difference. How do we develop our current leaders though? Because developing them is essentially our only option. Very hard to pry leaders from other clubs, for the simple fact that they are leaders and leaders are for the most part, loyal.
 
It's hard to know what makes a good leader. If you have a leadership group of four or five, then there probably needs to be a diversity of views and backgrounds. Arguably we have that between Rockliff, Dayne Beams, Zorko, Hanley, Merrett and Rich, but perhaps you could compliment that group with a much younger player, who could maybe relate a bit more to last year's and this year's draftees.

Ben Keays might be a future leader of the club, but it might be better if they were an import, so they had that shared experience with a lot of the incoming draftees. Gardiner, Robertson, McGrath and Paparone might fit that description, but it depends on personality and behavioural stuff we can't really see from the outside.
 

winged1

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Aug 30, 2013
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. Gardiner, Robertson, McGrath and Paparone might fit that description, but it depends on personality and behavioural stuff we can't really see from the outside.
This. You really cant tell from the outside of the group. Outside of Reiwoldtesque on field melt downs, it is very hard to know the standing of players within the group.
 
I think its a quality first post and a worthy topic of conversation.

My personal view has evolved over the last four years or so.

I think Rockliff is a leader and will become a good one. Both on and off the field.

Merrett is a leader in the back line, and I think was aiming to pass that on to Clarke but we are now bereft on that front from next year. I think that will really hurt us because we are young and can prone to be a little hot headed at the back.

Zorko has impressed me with his ability to step up and lead by example with Rocky out. I think he is an able lieutenant ala MArcus Ashcroft (in a leadership sense), he's not a club captain but I would back him to deputise.

Hanley and Beams have been put into the role because they are our best players, but I think given injuries and other pressures we'd be best leaving them to find their game. Hanley I think has some leadership qualities but I think they are best when they are employed less formally. Beams I think just needs to be given the space to be the best footballer he can be.

Rich, I suspect that rich was appointed on the opposite basis as Beams and Hanley, whilst they were appointed because they were out best, Rich was appointed in the hope it would bring out his best. It won't he's too quiet, just let him play his football.

We've got a lot of young kids so it is hart to say who of them will be leaders, Shache, one hopes will but I don't know too many others.
 
I feel pretty confident in our spine of upcoming leaders

???
Schache
Keays
Andrews
Mcstay

Of the above, I'd say the leadership qualities of Schache, Keays and Andrews trump what I saw in the leadership potential of almost all of our current group (I had high hopes for Rich, and for me Rock grew into the leader he is). If they live up to their potential, and we add another into the leadership fray midfield wise, we'll be covered for leaders over the next 10 years.
 
Sep 14, 2012
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Rocky has to stay captain as there is no one else to really step up... that's saying a lot IMO. Would probably take Beams as he is well liked by the playing group, doesn't seem to have his own clique and gets around all the boys young and old. If only he could get on the park and besides I don't think he would like the captain role.

On field a lot of finger pointing and sooking, off field a disconnect between the leaders and the rest of the playing group.
 

lions27

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It's hard to know what makes a good leader. If you have a leadership group of four or five, then there probably needs to be a diversity of views and backgrounds. Arguably we have that between Rockliff, Dayne Beams, Zorko, Hanley, Merrett and Rich, but perhaps you could compliment that group with a much younger player, who could maybe relate a bit more to last year's and this year's draftees.

Ben Keays might be a future leader of the club, but it might be better if they were an import, so they had that shared experience with a lot of the incoming draftees. Gardiner, Robertson, McGrath and Paparone might fit that description, but it depends on personality and behavioural stuff we can't really see from the outside.
Beast mode seems to have leadership potential in spades
Hopefully he will be one of the first picked next year once his tank has improved
 

Len S

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It's hard to know what makes a good leader. If you have a leadership group of four or five, then there probably needs to be a diversity of views and backgrounds. Arguably we have that between Rockliff, Dayne Beams, Zorko, Hanley, Merrett and Rich, but perhaps you could compliment that group with a much younger player, who could maybe relate a bit more to last year's and this year's draftees.

Ben Keays might be a future leader of the club, but it might be better if they were an import, so they had that shared experience with a lot of the incoming draftees. Gardiner, Robertson, McGrath and Paparone might fit that description, but it depends on personality and behavioural stuff we can't really see from the outside.
Agree. The young players need someone who has Victory written all over them,and commands respect on the basis of battle honors.This is why we should be throwing big bucks at the likes of Jordan Lewis.
 
Nov 11, 2010
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Harris Andrews is very vocal and was trying to take charge of the defensive group in Sauce's absence.

From what I seen, McStay has been pretty vocal and instructive down there too. Handles himself well in the media too.

I think majority of the core of our future leaders are probably already here.

Someone mentioned Matho. He's certainly shown some positive signs I've felt.
 
Nov 11, 2010
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Agree. The young players need someone who has Victory written all over them,and commands respect on the basis of battle honors.This is why we should be throwing big bucks at the likes of Jordan Lewis.

We can throw all the money we'd like at Lewis. But it'd take a Scully to GWS offer for him to even remotely think of it. That bloke is Hawthorn through and through. I'd argue Leaders like him are near impossible to pry away from their clubs. Especially with their current on-field success.
 

braddsey

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Agree. The young players need someone who has Victory written all over them,and commands respect on the basis of battle honors.This is why we should be throwing big bucks at the likes of Jordan Lewis.
Chances of prying Jordon Lewis away from Hawthorn with money are close to zero. We don't have the kind of money to throw around the Gold Coast gave Ablett to move from Geelong, so who in their right mind would leave probably the best club in the country to go to the worst club in the land for what is probably only 10%-15% more than he can get at Hawthorn anyway? He's going to be their next captain, and even if they drop off, he'll still be playing in a quality football team (probably finals). Plus by the time he arrives at Brisbane if he could be tempted he'll be closer to 31 than 30...

If you're trying to bring in leaders, you need to be throwing big money at players who are entering their prime and can give the club top service for a good number of years. i think once we've bottomed out (and god willing we have) it's time to stop looking for band-aid fix.
 

Camblan

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I think we lack those "coach-player" hybrids that can guide younger players through their formative years on/off field. Even if they're a bit past their prime, it would be good to bring in a well credentialed veteran to play either end of the ground.
 
Sep 24, 2009
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Agree. The young players need someone who has Victory written all over them,and commands respect on the basis of battle honors.This is why we should be throwing big bucks at the likes of Jordan Lewis.

Talk around the traps is that Hodge or Burgoyne or even both may not be on the Hawks playing list next year....
 

braddsey

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I think we lack those "coach-player" hybrids that can guide younger players through their formative years on/off field. Even if they're a bit past their prime, it would be good to bring in a well credentialed veteran to play either end of the ground.
Losing Joel Patfull was massive in this regard. Consider what Adcock could be giving us at the moment,

I think the bringing in "well credentialed veterans" has the same problem as bringing in well credentialed players in general. We are not a destination club. Well credentialed veterans have all pretty much landed at top teams where they're going to have a final chance of a flag or finals footy, or headed to GWS where there's money, a ridiculously talented young list, and probably a good amount of money.
The last well credentialed veteran i can remember moving to a club at the bottom of the ladder for his final year was Doug Hawkins...

We don't seem to have much trouble bringing in less well credentialed players... because they don't have much choice if they want to keep playing football.
 

Camblan

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Losing Joel Patfull was massive in this regard. Consider what Adcock could be giving us at the moment,

I think the bringing in "well credentialed veterans" has the same problem as bringing in well credentialed players in general. We are not a destination club. Well credentialed veterans have all pretty much landed at top teams where they're going to have a final chance of a flag or finals footy, or headed to GWS where there's money, a ridiculously talented young list, and probably a good amount of money.
The last well credentialed veteran i can remember moving to a club at the bottom of the ladder for his final year was Doug Hawkins...

We don't seem to have much trouble bringing in less well credentialed players... because they don't have much choice if they want to keep playing football.

Yeah agreed, should have tried harder to keep Patfull at least. It would be difficult but certainly not impossible. Jay Schulz (even though the club said no last year), Ted Richards and Michael Firrito come to mind.
 
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