Our Midfield - Our Current Failure and Start of our Rebirth

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Greenac

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Like it or not it's a midfielders game now.

Are the Crouch brothers just stealing minutes from other players who might offer more? Assuming Brad will leave, we will be left with hack kick Matt whom other teams don't bother tagging. I'd trade them both while they have some value.

Why have we given up on Smith through the middle? Why is the Milera experiment over? Jones needs more time through there. Who else could we give a spin to?

I hope Nicks isn't going with more of the same from here out otherwise we are just delaying our next tilt by years.

What's your preferred lineup through the guts?
 

hugecannon

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I don’t think Smith is a centre square midfielder, I like him as a wing/hf now who can do some damage from limited possessions.

Settle Milera on a wing for the whole year and maybe give gallucci a decent run as a HB and see if he has anything to offer.
 

The Sloane Ranger

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I don’t think Smith is a centre square midfielder, I like him as a wing/hf now who can do some damage from limited possessions.

Settle Milera on a wing for the whole year and maybe give gallucci a decent run as a HB and see if he has anything to offer.
We need to put it on Milera

We nesd ro start building a midfield around Milera, Jones and the Berg

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Greenac

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I don’t think Smith is a centre square midfielder, I like him as a wing/hf now who can do some damage from limited possessions.

Settle Milera on a wing for the whole year and maybe give gallucci a decent run as a HB and see if he has anything to offer.
I wouldn't suggest he be our top pick, I Just think he offered enough that should we need a senior player to go in there for a rotation we could do worse than him given what he has shown. This is in a Crouch-less team.
 

Jarman3

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Like it or not it's a midfielders game now.

Are the Crouch brothers just stealing minutes from other players who might offer more? Assuming Brad will leave, we will be left with hack kick Matt whom other teams don't bother tagging. I'd trade them both while they have some value.

Why have we given up on Smith through the middle? Why is the Milera experiment over? Jones needs more time through there. Who else could we give a spin to?

I hope Nicks isn't going with more of the same from here out otherwise we are just delaying our next tilt by years.

What's your preferred lineup through the guts?
My preferred lineup consists mostly of players who are not at our club.
 

Crow till I die

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I would like to see at times this week ROB, jones and mchenry at centre bounces..very raw once the ball hits the ground but expose them. I think we should get ned in there a bit. Look at rotating one of the crouches in there at any one time. If poholke comes in then he simply has to be in there at times too..not stuck on a hff. Sure it might get a bit ugly but we have to have a real good look at these guys and what can they do in there

Edit. I'd be absolutely platlying one of frampton or himmelberg just so that ROB gets a proper chop out..more leaning himmelberg as we can then look at him at chb maybe when not helping out in ruck
 

Western Stand Warrior

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I was going to start a different thread but our midfield numbers were to be frank embarrassing.

We had 9 shots on goal for the entire match, from 30 inside 50s (compared to ports 57)

our main (IMO) ball users had disposal efficiencies as follows

Laird 50%
Lynch 50% (7 turnovers)
B Crouch 44% (5 turnovers)
M Crouch 65%
Smith 40%

now these stats are irrelevant in isolation, so in comparison Boak 67%, Rockliff 58, Motlop 83%, their other guys ranged high 60 to 70%

So when you look at the marks inside 50 with a whopping 4 (Port 13) and total marks of 39 (Port 105) you can see why anyone playing forward in our team is pretty much f’ed when our ball users, in large burn it as many times as they do something with it.

It says alot when Rory Sloane, who was injured for a large part of the game led us for I50 with 5.

edit - probably the most daming of all of the stats

Port had 65 tackles to our 45

Their top tacklers
Rockcliff (Mid) 8
Butters (fow) 8
Rozee (Fow/mid) 6

us
O'Brien (ruck) 6
Sloane (mid) 5


McAsey a 2nd gamer laid 4 tackles which is more than Seedsman (0) , Milera (0) Smith (1) Lynch (1) and Atkins (2) combined.

M Crouch had 2 and B Crouch 4. in comparison, blokes like Clurey, Powell Pepper and (5) Dan Houston 4 and Ebert and Amon 4.

Only Keays laid more than 3 tackles (4) so of the top 10 tacklers of the match - only 2 were Crows players, of the top 20 8 were Crows which makes it sound better but that is still 57 tackles to 31 in the Powers favour.
 
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jackster83

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We've thrown all our eggs into the Crouch x2 basket, even to the extent of trading out other options, and refusing to give midfield time to our draftees. It's backfired massively.

Even Gibbs wouldn't have done so badly here if he'd been able to play the role Matt does - instead we've tried to use him as an outside mid, tagger, half forward, half back, etc. Also when we play guys like Poholke, Jones, Gallucci etc it's usually as cover for Riley Knight in a half forward role.

The most damning thing is our ruckman is actually also arguably our best centre squad mid. Six tackles last night - Matt has four in two games.
 
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Greenac

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I was going to start a different thread but our midfield numbers were to be frank embarrassing.

We had 9 shots on goal for the entire match, from 30 inside 50s (compared to ports 57)

our main (IMO) ball users had disposal efficiencies as follows

Laird 50%
Lynch 50% (7 turnovers)
B Crouch 44% (5 turnovers)
M Crouch 65%
Smith 40%

now these stats are irrelevant in isolation, so in comparison Boak 67%, Rockliff 58, Motlop 83%, their other guys ranged high 60 to 70%

So when you look at the marks inside 50 with a whopping 4 (Port 13) and total marks of 39 (Port 105) you can see why anyone playing forward in our team is pretty much f’ed when our ball users, in large burn it as many times as they do something with it.

It says alot when Rory Sloane, who was injured for a large part of the game led us for I50 with 5.
Oh please do start one and the mods can lock this one away. Matt put in more effort defensively last night than I did into making this thread. Your stats are frightening.
 

Mutineer

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I was going to start a different thread but our midfield numbers were to be frank embarrassing.

We had 9 shots on goal for the entire match, from 30 inside 50s (compared to ports 57)

our main (IMO) ball users had disposal efficiencies as follows

Laird 50%
Lynch 50% (7 turnovers)
B Crouch 44% (5 turnovers)
M Crouch 65%
Smith 40%

now these stats are irrelevant in isolation, so in comparison Boak 67%, Rockliff 58, Motlop 83%, their other guys ranged high 60 to 70%

So when you look at the marks inside 50 with a whopping 4 (Port 13) and total marks of 39 (Port 105) you can see why anyone playing forward in our team is pretty much f’ed when our ball users, in large burn it as many times as they do something with it.

It says alot when Rory Sloane, who was injured for a large part of the game led us for I50 with 5.
And how many times did our players have options/players in space compared to Port, especially forward of centre?, how many times were Port players under little pressure when they disposed of the ball compared to our players? Two words WORK RATE.

I don't know what it is but right across the board the only player in our team last night that worked his ass off all night was ROB....there has to more to it than meets the eye.
 

Western Stand Warrior

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And how many times did our players have options/players in space compared to Port, especially forward of centre?, how many times were Port players under little pressure when they disposed of the ball compared to our players? Two words WORK RATE.

I don't know what it is but right across the board the only player in our team last night that worked his ass off all night was ROB....there has to more to it than meets the eye.
exactly

what I didn't add in there which was an oversight was tackles.... now added
 

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Murray2503

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Like it or not it's a midfielders game now.

Are the Crouch brothers just stealing minutes from other players who might offer more? Assuming Brad will leave, we will be left with hack kick Matt whom other teams don't bother tagging. I'd trade them both while they have some value.

Why have we given up on Smith through the middle? Why is the Milera experiment over? Jones needs more time through there. Who else could we give a spin to?

I hope Nicks isn't going with more of the same from here out otherwise we are just delaying our next tilt by years.

What's your preferred lineup through the guts?
Yep I would trade brad and matt without hesitation. Brad doesn't want to even be here as evidenced by Gold coast outing him that he and his management chased a contract with them last year. Tbh it sounds like they were never interested in brad with the likes of Rowell, Anderson etc coming in. Matt is simply too slow for the modern game and is limited. I also would play Sloane on a wing where I feel he is best suited.
That leaves a midfield mix of the 2 crouches(while they are still here), Smith, Milera, Jones, Schoenberg, Mchenry, Fogarty, Gallucci, O'connor, Seedsman, Atkins, Laird. Whoever is best out this group needs to be played in there. In the long term we need to fix the midfield through a combination of pick 1 - 3 and trading in experienced talent.
 

Golumless

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Like it or not it's a midfielders game now.

Are the Crouch brothers just stealing minutes from other players who might offer more? Assuming Brad will leave, we will be left with hack kick Matt whom other teams don't bother tagging. I'd trade them both while they have some value.

Why have we given up on Smith through the middle? Why is the Milera experiment over? Jones needs more time through there. Who else could we give a spin to?

I hope Nicks isn't going with more of the same from here out otherwise we are just delaying our next tilt by years.

What's your preferred lineup through the guts?
Hasn't it always been?

For me, right now my preferred group of 7 inside mids (using this current list) would be:

M.Crouch, Sloane, Jones, O'Connor, Schoenberg, B.Crouch, McHenry

In terms of prioritising game time in the midfield, my usual 6 would be:

Jones needs to be a full-time midfielder. We're not doing anything this season, and if we want Chayce to impact in the future, now is the time.
Matt Crouch needs some readjustment to his game, but I have no issue with retaining him from this season onwards. Good foil.
Brad Crouch needs another position, but I'm not at dropping just yet.
Sloane, I would be pushing away from the midfield from now, and I would love to see him on the half-forward flank. Use those marking skills.
Schoenberg has something. Just a vibe. Am happy with a 50% midfield time this season, seeing it is his first on the list.
O'Connor is only through needs (and also, we're near the bottom, fu** it). I know he is raw, but really, we desperately need a 190cm + midfielder in our side. Would accept replacing with Poholke when cooked.
McHenry is also the future of our midfield. Absolute terrier. He is new though, so I'd give him intermittent minutes for the time being.

Gallucci is the unlucky miss here. I'd love to see get genuine midfield minutes. He's looked ok when he does get opportunities in there and is a rather damaging player. First drop when Schoenberg/McHenry get cooked (if).


Outside i'd be rolling with:

Seedsman
Smith
Milera
Hamill
Sholl
Davis/McAdam
McHenry/Gallucci

Seedsman and Smith are my starting wingers with Milera, Hamill and Sholl my ideal half-back composition. They can interchange, and potentially pick up some inside minutes when need be (esp. Milera). Davis/McAdam is a small rotation as a mid-forward when needed, McHenry/Gallucci is also a forward rotation who is also an inside option.
 
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SellarStardom

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I would add FOG and Murphy as possible midfield rotations, and Gibbs as well at a squeeze. No young mid should play the HF role, that should be Crouch and Sloane
 

kirky

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We need to put it on Milera

We nesd ro start building a midfield around Milera, Jones and the Berg

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Yet we signed him for a five year contract in Feb this year - five years ffs. Of course, he has his security blanket now, we can’t trade him if we ever wanted to with that contract.

Yes, we need to put it in him to produce and produce consistently. He is 22 years old and in his fifth year.
 

feenix67

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I feel that Nicks needs to ignore names when it comes to the midfield. He clearly (at least verbally) has a mantra of accountability, so he needs to apply it at selection. For too long, our team has applied different selection criteria to seniors v juniors. Given our current rebuild status, that needs to go. Play blokes in position, select based on output, ignore the past. If he wants buy in, he has to reward performance and be consistent. If anything, he needs to be more lenient on the juniors, give them time to improve, as opposed to seniors.

Senior blokes like Crouch X 2, Atkins, Smith, Milera have gotten games based on reputation or "potential". That has to end.
 

Betts are off

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I feel that Nicks needs to ignore names when it comes to the midfield. He clearly (at least verbally) has a mantra of accountability, so he needs to apply it at selection. For too long, our team has applied different selection criteria to seniors v juniors. Given our current rebuild status, that needs to go. Play blokes in position, select based on output, ignore the past. If he wants buy in, he has to reward performance and be consistent. If anything, he needs to be more lenient on the juniors, give them time to improve, as opposed to seniors.

Senior blokes like Crouch X 2, Atkins, Smith, Milera have gotten games based on reputation or "potential". That has to end.
I’d like to experiment and put Brad at the graveyard HFF Position for an entire game, and Matt as the defensive sweeping wingman.

0 Center bounces. See how our midfield reacts
 
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StonesThrow

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Matt crouch is our best midfielder. He's a good player but if he's your best mid then you've got problems.

I hate to admit I can't see Sloane ever playing near his peak days anymore.

Brad Crouch is a decent footballer but is too wasteful with the ball.

Who knows what we're doing with Milera and Smith.

Next up we've got Jones who is still too slight. McHenry who is probably too small to be a full time mid.

Next up we have Schoenberg who has just been drafted.

It really is a dire midfield that we've seen coming for years.

A lesser discussed factor is our coaching staff. We've been unable to have any sort of cohesive structure at centre bounces, ball ups or throw ins for 3 years now. Add to that our defensive set up is non existent when the opposition get the ball in these situations.

With a B grade midfield you're just asking for trouble.

ROB is probably going to win the bnf and he looked like he'd only picked up a football for the first time a few years ago.
 

craig crowing

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And how many times did our players have options/players in space compared to Port, especially forward of centre?, how many times were Port players under little pressure when they disposed of the ball compared to our players? Two words WORK RATE.

I don't know what it is but right across the board the only player in our team last night that worked his ass off all night was ROB....there has to more to it than meets the eye.
Since the game virtually all posters have dumped on virtually every player for lots of reasons and usually rightfully so .
But apart from when played Nicks presser last night and Mutineer and couple others have hit on the real problem .
Allowing opposition to run free unchecked with no effort to prevent this occurring or commitment to applying any off ball defensive pressure.
Mutineer called it WORK RATE
Nicks -- You cant allow them to do what they want to do, e.g . said (cant let someone like Boak run past you as won't catch them )
He also called it off ball pressure.
I call it defensive pressure which is a little broader but covers not allowing anyone easy possession or to run into attacking open spaces.
Heard other posters call it two way running .
But after Port did it to us in previous showdown did not hear Pike or Campo even touch that area we got killed in.
If we allow GC to run free from defence or through mid we will get beaten again badly as gives opposition confidence and every player lifts like in Power game and Crows on back foot with no confidence and opposition coming from everywhere at you.
Least gave me a bit more confidence in Nicks that he sees what the problem really is .
 

Betts are off

Norm Smith Medallist
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A lot of people mention McHenry's size as a detractor. But I think he's going to be absolutely fine. He looked like he was adjusting to the pace but is tenacity and effort jumped off the screen to me. Especially compared to some of the squibbing efforts by our "First Choice" midfield.

I have no problem with given Ned meaningful minutes in the middle. Our 3 senior mids certainly don't play with that same spark/fire anymore, which is probably why we keep getting smoked in the clearances.
 

Betts are off

Norm Smith Medallist
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Regarding Matt Crouch, I've been as big a fan of him as any over the journey, but I have to admit, it seems like the competitive fire is just barely flickering right now. I don't see the same mongrel and desire in him of years gone by.

I genuinely think Nicks needs to fuel that fire by making him fight for his spot again. Matt plays his best footy when he's got something to prove, so our coaches need to give him something to prove
 

BunjiMac

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Speed, size and genuine class are the two things we need. Our midfield is generally one paced and medium to small.

This is so blindly obvious to everyone.

The midfield is made up of a fairly large number of players nowadays, what you need is variation to be able to throw different combinations at different teams, during a game.
 

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