Opinion Our Midfield

[Dramoth]

I expect Graham will slide into that group too sooner rather than later.

Lucas too if he can get his head right (then again he reminds of JR and he never got his right!)

I dont think that the issues with JR was 100% on him. I think that there was pressure on Ratts to play other people like Davies and White over JR... and then we got Laids and he played a similar role to what JR was playing.

I fully expect to see Lucas step up this year and really start to cement himself into the side. But the question is... can the club afford to play all three of Gibbs, Thomas and Lucas across the midfield or would we stagger them from the HBF to the HFF and allow them free reign to roam?

 

[Dramoth]

Le Menzel disputes your claim but he was twiddling his thumbs on the bench for 3 and a half quarters. Plenty of hope for Graham and Cripps as well if our development rises to the occasion.

Temay putting away 2 goals for the Bullants as well...

Cachia and Graham were definitely putting their hands up for selection next week I think... 30 touches each against the Box Hill Hawks.

Graham according to the Bullants match report was especially effective with 30 touches (17 contested and 5 clearances).

What I need to know is... are we playing guys like Warnock and McLean in the side because of their perceived cost from years ago? Are there outside influences who are pushing the club to play those guys just because we paid overs for them and want to get out moneys worth out of them going forward?

 

[Dramoth]

I would be happy to see him in the seniors. He has proven in the limited opportunities he had at AFL level last season that he can find the ball at this level as well. Given decent game time, I believe he would regularly have high 20s, 30+ disposal games. He just reads the play so well.

Nick Stevens Mk II maybe?

 

[BM123]

Temay putting away 2 goals for the Bullants as well...

Cachia and Graham were definitely putting their hands up for selection next week I think... 30 touches each against the Box Hill Hawks.

Graham according to the Bullants match report was especially effective with 30 touches (17 contested and 5 clearances).

What I need to know is... are we playing guys like Warnock and McLean in the side because of their perceived cost from years ago? Are there outside influences who are pushing the club to play those guys just because we paid overs for them and want to get out moneys worth out of them going forward?

Possibly but I hope not. Neither are bad footballers but I hope that they are just depth by the end of the year.

 

[Dramoth]

Agreed.

Menzel hasn't won a Brownlow yet - should be delisted immediately.

Forget player development and management. That has no place in modern day football.

I dont know why we are recruiting all these guys for... obviously our recruitment program is failing as they all require lots of development work to get them to a level of acceptable skill to be AFL footballers... why cant we recruit 17 year old kids who are straight out of school and can play like a god already... There is something seriously wrong there I think...

 

[I bleed Blue]

Here we go again.
Menzel will be awesome, and desperately what we need. Leave him alone.
Why don't we have ready-made stars like Wines, O'Meara, Crouch?
To attract that kind of quality you need fairly high picks, same reason we do not have Boyd.

Having said that, I think the issue we have with our midfield is that we don not have enough natural accumulators. We seem to have a lot of players who can claim around 20 disposals, whereas I think we need a few who are capable of having it on a string. If Carrazzo returns to peak form you won't recognise our midfield. For the same reason, I think we need to be developing Graham in the firsts, and Buckley needs to be down back. Both find the ball naturally, and need to develop their vision and awareness under pressure. Excited for Cripps for the same reason.

Yep. Get him in there. Think he well and truly proved himself in the 2nds last year. Get him in the team and leave him there to develop at the top level.

 

[Navy_4_life]

No one is saying this at all, but people on here are claiming by getting Menzel it forgives all our past errors, when Menzel is a long way from being an established AFL player let alone an A grade player,

It is the Luke Mitchell syndrome all over again. The Board picks a player they believe will be unbelievable and pumps up his tyres so that no one can say a negative thing about him and the expectations are unrealistic.

I rate Menzel as top 5 from his draft. But he is a slower developer than a Wines and it will take 5 years to reach his peak. I think that peak will be AA quality. But to date he is only potential and not someone to use to pump up our recruiting team. Had he come in and had a Wines impact - sure. But he hasn't.

We as a club need to go back to demanding and rewarding performance only. Stuff potential, stuff promises - perform or **** off.

(And know I don't mean **** of Menzel because he isn't Wines - he has 5 years in my book to prove himself).

 

[mediumsizered]

Nick Stevens Mk II maybe?

Graham has one quality that Stevens was a bit short of. Courage.

 

[I AM CARLTON]

Cripps

Just throwing this in but imo I would play Cachia instead of Robbo (at the moment).
Cachia is hard at the ball and appears to have more composure when he has the ball.
I do not believe we would lose anything that Robbo is delivering by swapping in Cachia.

Give me Cripps or Graham before Cachia

 

[blueblooded]

Bell and Robinson need to not play, butcher the football too much, offer not much apart from having a crack which is not good enough at AFL level. Gibbs and Murphy need to lift this year. If these 2 things happen and we get the ball into the hands of Simpson, Yarran and Walker on the outside we will be fine. It's a simple game football, win the ball and get it into the hands of your best users.

On the weekend far too many times Bell and Robbo ended up with the ball on the outside and that's where we will fall down...

Bell and Robinson will not play in top sides and as long as they are in ours we will not be a top side, Ed Curnow is doing well but again he is not elite. You cant carry too many of these plodders and on the weekend we had far too many

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Agree with Robinson, but I just think Bell has a lot of upside and is worth persisting with.

 

[Bosun]

My biggest concern is fitness, the praccy game against Adelaide I didn't mind so much being of course a praccy game but if I knew it was a sign of things to come.......

They completely ran out of steam in the last quarter, no run through the middle which Mick pointed out during last years finals exit. We've now got this Buttifant bloke in who is supposed to be the supremo of fitness so I hope we start seeing it soon because we should be raring to go for four quarters in the opening game.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

My biggest concern is fitness, the praccy game against Adelaide I didn't mind so much being of course a praccy game but if I knew it was a sign of things to come.......

They completely ran out of steam in the last quarter, no run through the middle which Mick pointed out during last years finals exit. We've now got this Buttifant bloke in who is supposed to be the supremo of fitness so I hope we start seeing it soon because we should be raring to go for four quarters in the opening game.

Which is why it is even more bizarre that MM didn't play more kids, the kids started pre season earlier and are hungry to impress whilst the older more established guys ease into a long season knowing what is ahead of them.. Menzel & Cripps at the very least should have played. But instead we rushed in a few guys who were not ready and ran out of legs when Port put on the pressure.

 

[I AM CARLTON]

Burgess from Port is doing huge things with Port's fitness.

Butter fingers doesn't appear to be doing much for us!!!!!

 

[LemmingMaster]

Burgess from Port is doing huge things with Port's fitness.

Butter fingers doesn't appear to be doing much for us!!!!!

Look what Port have done for Polec, the kid looks rather good all preseason and that goal had elements of Eagles Judd about it.

 

[thebluelagoon]

Look what Port have done for Polec, the kid looks rather good all preseason and that goal had elements of Eagles Judd about it.

polac looks like a sulky mommies boy, the opposite of a "leader"

 

[BM123]

Who cares if he is a mummies boy?

We made him look like a champion though with our insipid tackling in the last quarter. His goal only happened as well since Tuohy decided to crash the pack and spoil Menzel who had front spot for some reason.

 

[Silvagnis]

Which is why it is even more bizarre that MM didn't play more kids, the kids started pre season earlier and are hungry to impress whilst the older more established guys ease into a long season knowing what is ahead of them.. Menzel & Cripps at the very least should have played. But instead we rushed in a few guys who were not ready and ran out of legs when Port put on the pressure.

That's not true. The draftees start later than the senior players. They only do 80% of the pre-season.

Burgess from Port is doing huge things with Port's fitness.

Butter fingers doesn't appear to be doing much for us!!!!!

Is Buttifant responsible for the players having interrupted pre-seasons?

Burgess' team gave up a big lead against Carlton at AAMI.

My biggest concern is fitness, the praccy game against Adelaide I didn't mind so much being of course a praccy game but if I knew it was a sign of things to come.......

They completely ran out of steam in the last quarter, no run through the middle which Mick pointed out during last years finals exit. We've now got this Buttifant bloke in who is supposed to be the supremo of fitness so I hope we start seeing it soon because we should be raring to go for four quarters in the opening game.

We had fewer rotations than Port. We need to get the miles into the legs of the players who are underdone. In match conditions.

Look what Port have done for Polec, the kid looks rather good all preseason and that goal had elements of Eagles Judd about it.

Menzel looks quicker under Buttifant. Found a yard of pace that I didn't know he had. I guess this could be due to Menzel and Polec having full pre-seasons.

 

[Jeremias]

Burgess from Port is doing huge things with Port's fitness.

Butter fingers doesn't appear to be doing much for us!!!!!

Two things:

1) Buttifant hasn't been in the role all that long. I'd say your lack of patience and demand for immediacy is more your issue than it is his. It'll take longer than a few months for the true effects of his work to reflect on the field.

2) Have a bit of respect for a club official. His name isn't "Butter fingers", it's Buttifant.

 

[I AM CARLTON]

Two things:

1) Buttifant hasn't been in the role all that long. I'd say your lack of patience and demand for immediacy is more your issue than it is his. It'll take longer than a few months for the true effects of his work to reflect on the field.

2) Have a bit of respect for a club official. His name isn't "Butter fingers", it's Buttifant.

Fair enough with his name but we don't look fit. I can't work out why we played underdone players it just doesn't make sense.

I'd also say most supporters are getting impatient isn't the reason we moved Ratts on and brought Malthouse in was for immediate success. To have a real crack at the flag you have to finish top 4 and I got to be honest Port look a lot closer to top 4 than we do!

 

[King of Ruin]

 

[Cringle]

I actually rate Curnow pretty highly. I also like the way Cachia goes about it, strong, hard, compact and gets the ball out more times than not through a handball. Do not underrate this skill. Thats why Cripps is such a high prospect.

 

[Dramoth]

Fair enough with his name but we don't look fit. I can't work out why we played underdone players it just doesn't make sense.

I'd also say most supporters are getting impatient isn't the reason we moved Ratts on and brought Malthouse in was for immediate success. To have a real crack at the flag you have to finish top 4 and I got to be honest Port look a lot closer to top 4 than we do!

Maybe Buttifant is trying to get the players stronger first... and worry about fitness second.

It has been a major complaint from most supporters over the past few years, when we had Cordy as our high performance manager, that we were getting rag dolled and brushed aside by bigger stronger sides. Maybe his first task is to improve the strength of the players so that we can stick tackles and stand up in tackles and break them like other sides do against us.

I would prefer to see guys like Lucas sticking tackles first and foremost than being able to run like the wind all day.

 

[thebluelagoon]

Maybe Buttifant is trying to get the players stronger first... and worry about fitness second.

It has been a major complaint from most supporters over the past few years, when we had Cordy as our high performance manager, that we were getting rag dolled and brushed aside by bigger stronger sides. Maybe his first task is to improve the strength of the players so that we can stick tackles and stand up in tackles and break them like other sides do against us.

I would prefer to see guys like Lucas sticking tackles first and foremost than being able to run like the wind all day.

Horses for courses i think! bootsma need to bulk up, lucas need to learn to tackle (not sure that buttifant is going to teach him that) and Cripps need to learn how to run all day...

 

[No1Suspect]

Maybe Buttifant is trying to get the players stronger first... and worry about fitness second.

It has been a major complaint from most supporters over the past few years, when we had Cordy as our high performance manager, that we were getting rag dolled and brushed aside by bigger stronger sides. Maybe his first task is to improve the strength of the players so that we can stick tackles and stand up in tackles and break them like other sides do against us.

I would prefer to see guys like Lucas sticking tackles first and foremost than being able to run like the wind all day.

100%.

Personally i think speed is something you either have or don't, and your tank is something you work on and grow... im only 178cm had a decent preseason and went from 79kgs to 86kgs, im pretty quick and haven't lost 1 yard of pace at all, i don't see why these guys cant do the same obviously over an extended period of time because the demands on them are 10 fold compared to the amos... but year in year out we don't ever seem to come out of a preseason looking bigger and stronger, hopefully buttifant cant fix this.