Our Midfield

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Premium said:
I thought Steele has been playing well , kept Pendlebury to 6
,Billings and Acres plated handy games and no we get the 2 Stevens back, so things looking good.
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I didn't include those guys cos they are playing quite limited minutes in the centre for restarts. Steele has started there a bit I guess. Stats suggest that whoever is starting (mainly Dunny, Armo & Ross) is losing their position.
 
Glen Buterol said:
I didn't include those guys cos they are playing quite limited minutes in the centre for restarts. Steele has started there a bit I guess. Stats suggest that whoever is starting (mainly Dunny, Armo & Ross) is losing their position.
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Do you think Dunstan and Armo will be dropped for the 2 Stevens
 

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Feel the midfield is coming along nicely, should get a huge boost at the end of the year from at least one source, whether that be draft, trade or free agency. Think we definitely have the potential to have a top tier mid in 2018.

I feel like our midfield is doing so well that we are all underestimating how impressive Steele has been considering it's only his third season.

Averaging 20 disposals (Dal was averaging 19, Ball 22, Hayes 16)
4.5 marks (Dal 4.2, Ball 3.8, Hayes 2.8)
6.5 tackles (Dal 3.3, Ball 5.2, Hayes 2.9)

If he peaked at those stats I don't think we'd be too disappointed, not sure how much scope for improvement he has but jeez he's looking the full package on paper.
 
Armoooo said:
Feel the midfield is coming along nicely, should get a huge boost at the end of the year from at least one source, whether that be draft, trade or free agency. Think we definitely have the potential to have a top tier mid in 2018.

I feel like our midfield is doing so well that we are all underestimating how impressive Steele has been considering it's only his third season.

Averaging 20 disposals (Dal was averaging 19, Ball 22, Hayes 16)
4.5 marks (Dal 4.2, Ball 3.8, Hayes 2.8)
6.5 tackles (Dal 3.3, Ball 5.2, Hayes 2.9)

If he peaked at those stats I don't think we'd be too disappointed, not sure how much scope for improvement he has but jeez he's looking the full package on paper.
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I agree, he just seems to go under the radar a bit for some reason. Everyone's to busy looking at Acres on the bench to notice Steele :rolleyes:
 
I feel like we need to take a real good look at this.

Taking a look at pretty much every midfield position on the ground.

In a best 22 that would be the ruck line, centre line and all interchange spots for mids which makes it 9 spots all up.

Steven
Armo
Ross
Stevens
Steele
Newnes
Dunstan
Montagna
Gresham/Acres/Mav/Billings/Riewoldt

Obviously not everyone has played all the games but that's pretty much it. 6-7 permanent guys with another one or two rolling through there.

Still needs some serious work for mine. As I keep saying if 80% of our picks over the next few years aren't mids we've lost the plot!
 
So our midfield is ****ed in terms of depth (only a handful of true mids in the twos) and quality (only one A-grade mid at the club, if Steven's even A-grade). Here's why.

2015-2016

Midfielders (6): Phillips, Steele, Stevens, Freeman, O'Kearney, Gresham
Other Smalls (3): Long, White, Rice
Talls (5): Battle, Marshall, Brown, Carlisle, Coughlan

(All of them are still on the list.)

So that's not terrible, we've grabbed a few pure mids, along with some good value talls. But obviously it's early days for these guys so it's not surprising they're not stars yet.

2012-2014

Midfielders (6): Sinclair, Acres, Billings, Dunstan, Murdoch, Saunders
Other Smalls (8): Lonie, McKenzie, Savage, Weller, Wright, Roberton, Templeton, Dennis-Lane
Talls (12): McCartin, Membrey, Goddard, Bruce, Holmes, Longer, Hickey, Pierce, Lee, White, Delaney, Payne

(Those in italics are gone. I couldn't decide if Robbo was a small or a tall, I think he was a small when we took him.)

In this period, when we were really starting the rebuild, we took 12 talls and only 6 true mids. A bunch of other smalls, but doesn't look like any of them turn out to be mids. Maybe that was the strategy, but it definitely looks a little short-sighted now.

2008-2011

Midfielders (21): Newnes, Ross, (Hutchings), Dunell, Markworth, Shenton, Andreoli, Crocker, Curren, Ledger, Polo, Lovett, Peake, Smith, Winmar, Begley, Heyne, Howard, McGarry, Ray, Smith
Other Smalls (7): Minchington, Webster, (Cripps), Milera, Saad, Siposs, Tungatalum
Talls (18): (Stanley), (Lynch), (Dawson), Maister, Staley, Lever, Gamble, Ferguson, Allen, Archer, Johnson, Walsh, Pattison, Cahill, Gaertner, Simpkin, McGrath

(Those in italics are gone. Those in italics with parentheses are still playing elsewhere. Interestingly there are more on other lists than remaining on ours!)

So in this period it took us 21 players to find 2 decent mids. Admittedly we were drafting from poor positions, and our drafting was terrible overall. But the strike rate was just terrible. And if I could be bothered to go back further, it would look even worse.


Given that we picked terribly over a long period, and then didn't bother to choose many mids for a few years running, it's not surprising we're lacking depth.

But the other thing this suggests to me is that it takes a lot of picks to get a good midfield. Should we have taken more mids earlier? I'd say yes, definitely. But what's past is past. Should we take mids, mids, and more mids now? Definitely.
 
bergholt said:
So our midfield is ****** in terms of depth (only a handful of true mids in the twos) and quality (only one A-grade mid at the club, if Steven's even A-grade). Here's why.

2015-2016

Midfielders (6): Phillips, Steele, Stevens, Freeman, O'Kearney, Gresham
Other Smalls (3): Long, White, Rice
Talls (5): Battle, Marshall, Brown, Carlisle, Coughlan

(All of them are still on the list.)

So that's not terrible, we've grabbed a few pure mids, along with some good value talls. But obviously it's early days for these guys so it's not surprising they're not stars yet.

2012-2014

Midfielders (6): Sinclair, Acres, Billings, Dunstan, Murdoch, Saunders
Other Smalls (8): Lonie, McKenzie, Savage, Weller, Wright, Roberton, Templeton, Dennis-Lane
Talls (12): McCartin, Membrey, Goddard, Bruce, Holmes, Longer, Hickey, Pierce, Lee, White, Delaney, Payne

(Those in italics are gone. I couldn't decide if Robbo was a small or a tall, I think he was a small when we took him.)

In this period, when we were really starting the rebuild, we took 12 talls and only 6 true mids. A bunch of other smalls, but doesn't look like any of them turn out to be mids. Maybe that was the strategy, but it definitely looks a little short-sighted now.

2008-2011

Midfielders (21): Newnes, Ross, (Hutchings), Dunell, Markworth, Shenton, Andreoli, Crocker, Curren, Ledger, Polo, Lovett, Peake, Smith, Winmar, Begley, Heyne, Howard, McGarry, Ray, Smith
Other Smalls (7): Minchington, Webster, (Cripps), Milera, Saad, Siposs, Tungatalum
Talls (18): (Stanley), (Lynch), (Dawson), Maister, Staley, Lever, Gamble, Ferguson, Allen, Archer, Johnson, Walsh, Pattison, Cahill, Gaertner, Simpkin, McGrath

(Those in italics are gone. Those in italics with parentheses are still playing elsewhere. Interestingly there are more on other lists than remaining on ours!)

So in this period it took us 21 players to find 2 decent mids. Admittedly we were drafting from poor positions, and our drafting was terrible overall. But the strike rate was just terrible. And if I could be bothered to go back further, it would look even worse.


Given that we picked terribly over a long period, and then didn't bother to choose many mids for a few years running, it's not surprising we're lacking depth.

But the other thing this suggests to me is that it takes a lot of picks to get a good midfield. Should we have taken more mids earlier? I'd say yes, definitely. But what's past is past. Should we take mids, mids, and more mids now? Definitely.
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Nailed it. If you can't draft and develop mids the you'll struggle to make finals let alone win a flag
 
We were probably banking on guys like Acres, Dunstan, Billings, Sinclair etc to be better than they are right now, but they've still got time. I agree though that it hasn't been enough of a focus the past few drafts and needs to be from now on.

From now on any pick that isn't used on a mid is a pick wasted.
 
Coconut_twirl said:
And Petracca is playing a blinder tonight. He would be quite handy in our midfield right now.
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What a shame he went missing when it actually mattered and his team needed him the most. His last quarter was laughable. I'm still yet to understand all the hype and why he's such a better player than McCartin supposedly.
 

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Out of the younger brigade, I'm most confident in Acres, Steele, and Gresh becoming A grade. All showing very good signs. Acres and Gresh don't need much of it. Steele will be a high output kind of mid.

Dunstan isn't looking too good, can't spread, can't get his hands on it, and his thighs are too big for him to kick the thing properly.

Bilings, ask again in 2 years...
 
DarkSaint said:
I've been thinking over the last couple of days about the way our mids have played over the last 2 weeks with our best mid in Steven out for both games and probably our second best mid in Armo out for one and hardly played in the other.

During this time we came up against 2 midfields (lions,pies) who on paper easily had us covered and most teams in those positions. Before the games started I was hopeful that if we broke even (big if at the time) that we would win the game. Now looking back on it, not only did we break even but as a unit we actually beat each of those 2 midfiled groups without our 2 best mids.

Now this has got me thinking, are we relying on Jack Steven too much during games and everything goes through him (yes he is a gun). It seems over the last 2 weeks we have had a even contribution with some other players stepping up in the absence of Armo/Steven.

So my question is are we too structurely focused on Jack Steven and when he has a bad game we tend to lose?

Now I am in no way shape or form saying that we should drop him or not play him as he is our best mid by far, just more so maybe use him in some other role ie wing or not to be too reliant on him.
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Newsflash:
We have been over-reliant on Jack Steven for three years at least.
Armo hasnt been any good since 2015.
 
bergholt said:
The fact that list management over a lot of years hasn't left him with many comparable options? There's just noone else. So therefore he has to do his absolute best to develop Dunstan, like Billings and Acres. The cavalry isn't coming.
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I dont buy that and if it was true why has he been playing acres so sporadically over the last 4 seasons?

I think theres plenty of options at his disposal to play in that inside role. Especially this year with the acquisition of steele, stevens.

I think richo had made his mind up on who he wanted playing in there so he pumped as many games into it as possible regardless of the form line or trend. That meant he was reluctant to reward VFL form and change it up. It's why Ross had to work so hard in the VFL to make the senior squad. When he got to the senior squad he played a completely different role as an outside type. Ross luckily cemented his spot in that role and was then played more inside. Finally this year has seen Ross really come on in the inside stuff to go with his outside accumulation.

If you're someone like sinclair you must be pretty damn frustrated right now given his impact in the midfield at the VFL when played there.

I think the issue is that dunstan was blindly carried for a large proportion of games in the 2015/2016 and now 2017 season under the guise of player development whilst other players have not been afforded that opportunity

Tbh I think it's done dunstan a massive disservice. I think dunstan can clearly play the role but he needs to improve his tank. I mean you don't go backwards in football ability given his 2014 season. So what's changed? If it's fitness surely it's better to do a paddy and make him improve it away from the seniors
 
sonnywalters said:
Newsflash:
We have been over-reliant on Jack Steven for three years at least.
Armo hasnt been any good since 2015.
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No good Armo last year was 55th in the AFL for winning contested ball out of 654 listed players.
He was 36th ( same as Pendlebury ) in clearances.
I get sick of the Armitage bashing on here.

So he's injured and needs surgery and everyone bags him, but at the same time wonders why Geelong with Selwood and Dangerfield beat us.
( have a look at their contested possession and clearance stats for a clue ).

Whist everyone says we are crying out for a speedy wingman, we've got no-one to conveniently give them the ball.
 
The good news is that, thanks to the brilliance of Ameet, we have a great great opportunity to shore up our weaknesses this year. We've got heaps of cash, moving to Moorabbin (Finnis gets credit for this too of course) and most importantly, have three first round picks to play with. Two of these picks are looking more and more likely to be in the top 10.

I don't care what we do with these picks/cash but we simply HAVE to nail them. No excuses. Either go and draft two superstars, trade two superstars, buy two superstars or do a combination of these. We know what flaws we have in the list and this is the year to fix them. If we still have deficiencies this time next year, honestly, we may have missed the boat. If we can't find gold with such a stacked hand, we don't deserve to win a flag anyway. I'm pretty sure the club know this offseason could be the most important period we've ever had as a club or at least in recent memory.

Just want to add that Ameet has been an absolute champion. We may argue with Trout, Richo or even Pelchen have done a good job but there's no argument that this man's work has played a big role in getting us to this point in the rebuild. All his trades, whether for players or picks, have been on point. If we do win a flag, and I don't see why not, name Moorabbin after him please. Ameet Bains Park. Might help attract fellow Indian members too, which is a nice bonus.
 
Murraj1966 said:
Just have to trust in Bainsey that he picks the right targets which I'm sure he will
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Obviously "Bainsey" already has the runs on the board with Billings and McCartin so one avenue would be to go to the draft with our two first rounders and get more superstar youngsters. Or we could put the Out there as serious bait for say a super superstar like say Bontimpelli or Petracca.

Mmmmmm....so many choices.
 
Ricmel said:
Obviously "Bainsey" already has the runs on the board with Billings and McCartin so one avenue would be to go to the draft with our two first rounders and get more superstar youngsters. Or we could put the Out there as serious bait for say a super superstar like say Bontimpelli or Petracca.

Mmmmmm....so many choices.
Click to expand...

I was talking trade targets but good to see people here are ready to crack the sads midweek at the mention of any positivity
 
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