List Mgmt. Our Midfield

[La Dispute]

At some stage you need to stop and back in what you have. Our list really needs to settle. IMO we have the elite talent. Coniglio at $1m IMO isn't what we need. Would we prefer a Setterfield or even another Stocker deal?

It's not a simple decision and there are many variables yet to happen but I will be happy that if at years end SOS says we will be quiet this trade period as we are happy with our list. A Newman & a Pruess type plus 3-4 great draft picks would keep adding to our list and we can pay more of our young guns early.

Getting rid of 5-6 players at years end won't be easy.

Teams don’t really stop and settle with what they have though - good teams are always bringing in talented players that also fill a need. Constructing the list through young players and role players isn’t enough, and eventually you’ve to start supplementing your list and raising the standards.

Setterfield we got for an absolute song and unfortunately GWS won’t need to get players off their list to create cap space. These deals have been the norm over the past four years, but as they balance their contracts they’ll become the exception. We’ve been lucky to leverage our relationship with GWS while its benefitting us, and we’re a weaker team.

We also won’t need to pay Coniglio 1m every year; in our position we could work it out to be 1.3 1.2, 900k, 800k etc - moulting it so it roughly dips at the point we’d be extending the contracts of our young guns.

 

[Arr0w]

At some stage you need to stop and back in what you have. Our list really needs to settle. IMO we have the elite talent. Coniglio at $1m IMO isn't what we need. All he does is add depth and will be past his best by the time we challenge for a flag. I would prefer a Setterfield or even another Stocker deal?

Much prefer to keep the money to pay Charlie Weitering Dow Walsh O'Brien Marchbank SPS Fisher Cripps McKay etc. We will have a lot of top end talent to keep happy and a $1m a year can go a long way

It's not a simple decision and there are many variables yet to happen but I will be happy that if at years end SOS says we will be quiet this trade period as we are happy with our list. A Newman & a Pruess type plus 3-4 great draft picks would keep adding to our list and we can pay more of our young guns early.

Getting rid of 5-6 players at years end won't be easy.

Will be interesting to see who we target. If any of the FA's fit within the desired TPP, the benefits could be extremely worthwhile

I still see a possible 8 changes

 

[Soapy V]

We also won’t need to pay Coniglio 1m every year; in our position we could work it out to be 1.3 1.2, 900k, 800k etc - moulting it so it roughly dips at the point we’d be extending the contracts of our young guns.

I’m glad you don’t do our Salary Cap

In the end I don’t believe we are even interested in Cognilio. He will either stay or go back to WA.

 

[Eiffel 65]

Will be interesting to see who we target. If any of the FA's fit within the desired TPP, the benefits could be extremely worthwhile

I still see a possible 8 changes

I really hope not.

Aim for 3-4 changes. 5 at the most.

With 1-2 via trade and 3 in the national draft.

If we're making another 8 changes this year, that tells me we're not confident in our list build.

 

[Soapy V]

I still see a possible 8 changes

I'll be disappointed if we do that many Arr0w. Says to me we have had a poor year and many players haven't stepped up.

At the moment I can see most players staying.

I just think 2019/20 is the time for consolidation and allowing the list to settle and let Bolton coach this group. End of year focus will be on needs.

We've done the hard yards in regards to list turnover and as Lloyd said the rebuild (3 drafts) is now over.

I may be wrong (again) but I think 6 would be the absolute maximum and I am hoping for less.

Happy New Year [emoji106]

 

[Eiffel 65]

At some stage you need to stop and back in what you have. Our list really needs to settle. IMO we have the elite talent. Coniglio at $1m IMO isn't what we need. All he does is add depth and will be past his best by the time we challenge for a flag. I would prefer a Setterfield or even another Stocker deal?

Much prefer to keep the money to pay Charlie Weitering Dow Walsh O'Brien Marchbank SPS Fisher Cripps McKay etc. We will have a lot of top end talent to keep happy and a $1m a year can go a long way

It's not a simple decision and there are many variables yet to happen but I will be happy that if at years end SOS says we will be quiet this trade period as we are happy with our list. A Newman & a Pruess type plus 3-4 great draft picks would keep adding to our list and we can pay more of our young guns early.

Getting rid of 5-6 players at years end won't be easy.

100% agree.

By the time we trade for Coniglio, the likes of Kennedy and Cunningham will be entering their 5th season, SPS, Setterfield and Fisher entering their 4th season and Dow and O'brien entering their 3rd season.

The mids we've drafted are good enough, they just need time to physically develop.

Things will turn. We just need to be patient

 

[Soapy V]

100% agree.

By the time we trade for Coniglio, the likes of Kennedy and Cunningham will be entering their 5th season, SPS, Setterfield and Fisher entering their 4th season and Dow and O'brien entering their 3rd season.

The mids we've drafted are good enough, they just need time to physically develop.

Things will turn. We just need to be patient

You’ve got Cripps Kennedy SPS Dow Walsh O’Brien Setterfield Fisher as your core for the next 5 plus years. Plus Stocker Cuningham Lang Gibbons. We will also add more through picks.

My guess is we will chase a ruckman but like I said how 2019 goes will determine who and types

 

[Arr0w]

I really hope not.

Aim for 3-4 changes. 5 at the most.

With 1-2 via trade and 3 in the national draft.

If we're making another 8 changes this year, that tells me we're not confident in our list build.

I'll be disappointed if we do that many Arr0w. Says to me we have had a poor year and many players haven't stepped up.

At the moment I can see most players staying.

I just think 2019/20 is the time for consolidation and allowing the list to settle and let Bolton coach this group. End of year focus will be on needs.

We've done the hard yards in regards to list turnover and as Lloyd said the rebuild (3 drafts) is now over.

I may be wrong (again) but I think 6 would be the absolute maximum and I am hoping for less.

Happy New Year [emoji106]

Don't view it as a negative and or that our development has stagnated. Over the last 5 years, clubs have averaged over 9 changes a year. WC had 9 changes this year, after winning a flag. I would be very surprised, given the composition of our list, that we have less than 6-8 changes come year's end

 

[Coona Blues]

Will be interesting to see who we target. If any of the FA's fit within the desired TPP, the benefits could be extremely worthwhile

I still see a possible 8 changes

Can't see it happening Arr0w. Not necessarily that there would not be 8 under real scrutiny, but long term list management demands
the team be circumspect with changes. Look at a potential three year window with possible retirements, then look at the number of other
players who have not consolidated spots. Spread them over three seasons with the requirement of taking three kids in the National Draft
each year.

If we were to make 8 list changes this year, by my read we would only have about 2 the ensuing two years, not possible, I am sure the
club is looking at 4-5 maximum off the main list and maybe a rookie or two, although I see Bugg and Goddard as likely to do 3 years.

 

[therubbernub]

I'll be disappointed if we do that many Arr0w. Says to me we have had a poor year and many players haven't stepped up.

At the moment I can see most players staying.

I just think 2019/20 is the time for consolidation and allowing the list to settle and let Bolton coach this group. End of year focus will be on needs.

We've done the hard yards in regards to list turnover and as Lloyd said the rebuild (3 drafts) is now over.

I may be wrong (again) but I think 6 would be the absolute maximum and I am hoping for less.

Happy New Year [emoji106]

The disappointing thing so far has been the time out of game for many of our young players- players that on potential alone, seem important players. Players like Pickett, Phillips, Williamson, Macreadie, Lang, Cuningham , Kennedy, LeBois. We need to get them on the park and showing us their best so that we can assess their position on the List. No use trading in an unknown when you have a much better player already on your list- albeit been injured. We dont want too many Ciaran Byrne scenarios

 

[Eiffel 65]

You’ve got Cripps Kennedy SPS Dow Walsh O’Brien Setterfield Fisher as your core for the next 5 plus years. Plus Stocker Cuningham Lang Gibbons. We will also add more through picks.

My guess is we will chase a ruckman but like I said how 2019 goes will determine who and types

Does anyone have any info on De Koning?

That picture TSG posted of De Koning standing next to Jones makes him look like he has grown 4-5cm.

If he ends up being between 204-206, that's probably the perfect size for a ruckman, especially with his mobility.

 

[bmaurizio]

Don't view it as a negative and or that our development has stagnated. Over the last 5 years, clubs have averaged over 9 changes a year. WC had 9 changes this year, after winning a flag. I would be very surprised, given the composition of our list, that we have less than 6-8 changes come year's end

Agree with you Soapy, there’re will be at least 6 changes quite possibly 8 or more.
Pickett , Garnett , Le Bois gone with Cuningham, Polson and Lang under heavy scrutiny. Thomas and Simpson to retire one would think, and talls , Levi , Phillips gone if we decide to go with the Kruezer and Lobb can’t possibly carry all 4 of them.
Jones and Goddard under scrutiny at least.

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

If you can bring in proven A grade talent then the last 2 pages should be burned. Coniglio is a no brainer and we have the money.

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

I’m glad you don’t do our Salary Cap

In the end I don’t believe we are even interested in Cognilio. He will either stay or go back to WA.

That is a matter of opinion. I for one hope La Dispute is doing our salary cap. If we can bring in proven A grade talent, we are most certainly obliged too.

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

Sorry for the double up(new software)

 

[ParapMarkets]

At some stage you need to stop and back in what you have. Our list really needs to settle. IMO we have the elite talent. Coniglio at $1m IMO isn't what we need. All he does is add depth and will be past his best by the time we challenge for a flag. I would prefer a Setterfield or even another Stocker deal?

Much prefer to keep the money to pay Charlie Weitering Dow Walsh O'Brien Marchbank SPS Fisher Cripps McKay etc. We will have a lot of top end talent to keep happy and a $1m a year can go a long way

It's not a simple decision and there are many variables yet to happen but I will be happy that if at years end SOS says we will be quiet this trade period as we are happy with our list. A Newman & a Pruess type plus 3-4 great draft picks would keep adding to our list and we can pay more of our young guns early.

Getting rid of 5-6 players at years end won't be easy.

That’s crazy talk! Our list is already heavily concentrated in a particular age group and your preference is to further accentuate that? I would be stunned if SOS shared your view on this. He would be absolutely gagging for quality experienced players to supercharge development.

AT some stage we are going to suffer what GWS are right now, our list profile is unsustainable as it is. We will eventually lose players for draft picks and our age profile will even out and hopefully we continue to be strong.

If we can get Coniglio for free with no impact on our long term salary cap (remembering we can go to 105% of cap in initial years) why wouldn’t we? He would help the development of the youngsters and help raise standards and lift confidence. It is as close to a no-brainer as you can get, I’m actually stunned to read that you would have an opinion like this.

 

[Soapy V]

That’s crazy talk! Our list is already heavily concentrated in a particular age group and your preference is to further accentuate that? I would be stunned if SOS shared your view on this. He would be absolutely gagging for quality experienced players to supercharge development.

AT some stage we are going to suffer what GWS are right now, our list profile is unsustainable as it is. We will eventually lose players for draft picks and our age profile will even out and hopefully we continue to be strong.

If we can get Coniglio for free with no impact on our long term salary cap (remembering we can go to 105% of cap in initial years) why wouldn’t we? He would help the development of the youngsters and help raise standards and lift confidence. It is as close to a no-brainer as you can get, I’m actually stunned to read that you would have an opinion like this.

Do people actually analyse our list or just guess like journos?

Also Coniglio isn't free. If he was I would be happy to grab him.

I'm not going to keep going round and round but the same comments have been made about my views on List management/changes the past 3 years and I have been right on each year. Let's just see what happens.

 

[TooBlue14]

Lebois
Goddard
Lang
Casboult
Phillips
Garlett
Pickett
Bugg

That’s 8 easy.

 

[Soapy V]

I don’t agree with picking possible delistings in January. Everyone is a chance to step up

 

[Jeremias]

Stability is nice in theory but with at least 17 players OOC at the end of 2019 it's not unreasonable to suggest another 10 changes may be on the cards.

A lot will obviously depend on who takes their chances throughout the year and whether the bodies of a few older blokes can sustain another year in the AFL system.

Looking at the list of out of contract players you can clearly see who is most in the gun and it's up to those players to prove they deserve another opportunity beyond 2019.

I don’t agree with picking possible delistings in January

So look for another topic you're comfortable with, because it's a valid topic of discussion.

 

[Coona Blues]

That’s crazy talk! Our list is already heavily concentrated in a particular age group and your preference is to further accentuate that? I would be stunned if SOS shared your view on this. He would be absolutely gagging for quality experienced players to supercharge development.

AT some stage we are going to suffer what GWS are right now, our list profile is unsustainable as it is. We will eventually lose players for draft picks and our age profile will even out and hopefully we continue to be strong.

If we can get Coniglio for free with no impact on our long term salary cap (remembering we can go to 105% of cap in initial years) why wouldn’t we? He would help the development of the youngsters and help raise standards and lift confidence. It is as close to a no-brainer as you can get, I’m actually stunned to read that you would have an opinion like this.

A little from Column A and a little from Column B.

We are not going to suffer quite as much as GWS, as the go home factor is not an issue. The GWS salaries have been inflated by up to 20%, what they have been paying
Cameron in bloody criminal. SOS and his team have been busy front loading many deals with our up and coming kids, which also should (obviously no guarantees) assist
in long term retention. The other issue is that our recruiters have taken predominantly self starter dedicated types, and a few with family connections to our club that are
a little more obscure. Hawthorn, Geelong and others retain players with a discount for "success".

Recent additions of Goddard, Bugg, Lang, Garlett and even Fasolo who for the foreseeable future will be content to get a gig as opposed to chasing huge pay days is another
policy shift. Add Owies and whoever we add to our final rookie(s), and you will detect a shift to a few budget types at the bottom of the list. Blokes like Macreadie, Kerr,
Polson, BSOS, O'Dwyer, Schumacher and even Cuningham are going to be on lower contracts for the foreseeable future. Jones and Daisy wont get any huge paydays if
they survive beyond the year, similarly the back up rucks will be at back up wages post 2019. Suspect Nic Newman was on a peanuts offer at Swans so contract not huge.

Our window for recruiting a big ticket item is almost closed. Coniglio often mentioned as FA, but is a WA boy and also quoted as a leader and happy at GWS so probably
a long shot. Unless Kelly joined for a discount price if he can see a rapid upward trajectory, he would not enter the equation. Even Jack Martin from the Suns who had some
overtures from us (reportedly) last trade period would not come cheap. You quote the list profile with concentration in the lower age groups, so are you discounting an
attempt to lure Cerra or Taranto?

We are likely to rotate a ruck off/on the list at the end of the season. A mature type likely unless Phillips can get a "full" season in for a change. Should Phillips come
solid with his health, I would look at a kid or a 19/20yo to develop. Rebounding, line breaking half back? Goal sneak small forward if the current boys fail the audition.
Maybe a "gorilla" tamer backman if MaCreadie and/or Goddard don't come on, some talk of a lock down medium backman (not for me with modern game plans)?

There is room for a premo mid aged midfielder/utility with the end of Simmo, Murph and Daisy not far away, but it wont be at a million and a half for Kelly, this year or
next (maybe). After that it will be targeted needs based trades and draft only. I personally struggle to see a player we are likely to attract with Free Agency or a high end
trade this year, but SOS and co. usually have something up their sleeves.

Edit: Can't believe this formatting, solid text on the edit screen.

 

[Coona Blues]

Lebois - Probably..rookie list, not main list.
Goddard - No Medium/long term depth
Lang - Unlikely, even if depth only, unless we are paying more than I think we are
Casboult - Probably, thanks for the effort big fella
Phillips - or Lobbe. Phillips' fitness will be the decider here.
Garlett - Unlikely, backing him in post surgery
Pickett - Probably
Bugg - Unlikely rookie gig can play effectively forward, back, mid, tagger.

That’s 8 easy.

Give you 3 main list and one rookie. Will add one of Daisy or Simmo to retirement (outside chance of both)

 

[TooBlue14]

Give you 3 main list and one rookie. Will add one of Daisy or Simmo to retirement (outside chance of both)

You could add any of the below and it wouldn’t bother me. Particularly if it improves our draft position and age profile.
Jones
Schumacher
Lobbe
Cuningham
Thomas (retires maybe??)
Polson
Owies

 

[Robertio]

Lebois
Goddard
Lang
Casboult
Phillips
Garlett
Pickett
Bugg

That’s 8 easy.

A couple of them haven't played a game for us yet and your delisting them in January.

 

[Soapy V]

So look for another topic you're comfortable with, because it's a valid topic of discussion.

Never said I was uncomfortable [emoji6] just said I wouldn’t do it. Very different