List Mgmt. Our Midfield

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

When we chased Shiel we didn't have Walsh Stocker Setterfield. We felt we needed mature players and targeted Shiel to fill different areas. Didn't happen so we got some mids and also add mature players like Newman Bugg & Goddard after.

Our needs may well be different. A year is a long time and as I said numerous times by end of 2019 they won't be "kids". We will have a very good idea whether most of them will step up or not

I totally agree that by the end of this season that we will know a lot more because most of our players will no longer be just kids. It’s time for a lot of them to step up.
We could get to the end of the year and our midfield looks set but are crying out for small forwards, rebounding small defenders or we could get to the end of the season and we still aren’t making any progress because our midfield still isn’t up to it. What I do know is no side that I have ever seen wouldn’t absolutely love a two way running A grade mid like Coniglio. No matter how good we become he will still be one of our very best players and plays a position that you need the most players in the side in.
Chasing Coniglio is somewhat conservative imo because it is really covering our arse and insures that with him and Cripps we have arguably the best midfield combo in the game. If our recruitment has been spot on it may turn out that maybe we would’ve been better off going really hard for good small forwards and defenders but I think getting a player In who instantly improves our side is the way to go and when we are pushing right up the ladder start filling in the holes. Atm we are still way too far off knowing what holes need filling (except small forwards) to fill needs over elite talent.

 

[Soapy V]

I totally agree that by the end of this season that we will know a lot more because most of our players will no longer be just kids. It’s time for a lot of them to step up.
We could get to the end of the year and our midfield looks set but are crying out for small forwards, rebounding small defenders or we could get to the end of the season and we still aren’t making any progress because our midfield still isn’t up to it. What I do know is no side that I have ever seen wouldn’t absolutely love a two way running A grade mid like Coniglio. No matter how good we become he will still be one of our very best players and plays a position that you need the most players in the side in.
Chasing Coniglio is somewhat conservative imo because it is really covering our arse and insures that with him and Cripps we have arguably the best midfield combo in the game. If our recruitment has been spot on it may turn out that maybe we would’ve been better off going really hard for good small forwards and defenders but I think getting a player In who instantly improves our side is the way to go and when we are pushing right up the ladder start filling in the holes. Atm we are still way too far off knowing what holes need filling (except small forwards) to fill needs over elite talent.

If we need a mid then Coniglio is a target. No doubt but we will be chasing many

My guess is our targets at years end will be a Ruck, A Quality Small forward, Maybe a Big Bodied defender. Outside speed may be needed.

My original comments was always about costs (in many areas) and with our list I don't see anywhere near as many changes as the last few years.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

If we need a mid then Coniglio is a target. No doubt but we will be chasing many

My guess is our targets at years end will be a Ruck, A Quality Small forward, Maybe a Big Bodied defender. Outside speed may be needed.

My original comments was always about costs (in many areas) and with our list I don't see anywhere near as many changes as the last few years.

Yeh for me he is the type of player you would overpay to an extent for (say $1.2mil) because he is always going to fill a need and because he moves so well and is a two way runner he fits in with any midfield combination.
I think the worse thing that could happen by overpaying him and getting ourselves into salary cap pressure in 3-4 years, is that we have to make a tough decision on one of our kids to help fill a need later on. It’s not really a huge problem which other top sides are currently managing to work around having highly paid top end players. A bloody lot would have to go right for us to find ourselves in that position and it’s a great problem to have. The worst thing that could happen by not getting a player like him is we find ourselves in a situation where we aren’t providing a good enough environment for our young players and continue struggle and to not develop them, much like what happened to Melbourne.
I think the possible positives out way the possible negatives in our current situation.

 

[La Dispute]

I can’t see any real downside in bringing a player of Coniglio’s quality into the side. Cap space? You can front load his contract. Taking the spot of a young player? Good, we want competition for spots.

You can be too finicky with trying to put together a list and miss out on what’s happening in the present. No current young midfielder is guaranteed to be a future A-grader, and some have shown more than others. We certainly shouldn’t be evading signing a current gun on the basis of Cuningham and Kennedy being best 22 mainstays, or Walsh and Stocker being elite players - these things are just possibilities.

We currently have one midfield A-grader in Cripps, and a former A-grader in decline in Murphy. We’re in desperate need to bring in proven midfielders with leadership ability, and in the right age bracket, and Coniglio fits that mould perfectly. Having seen the impact in losing a midfield gun in Gibbs last year, we’re going to see the wholesale benefit of bringing one in at the right moment of the rebuild.

If the net result is a few fringe players leave for more opportunities or a young player is poached for more than they’re worth years down the track, so be it.

Coniglio is a better player than Shiel, arguably a Top 10 league player, a consistent finals performer and an unsung star.

I hope we go hard at getting him.

 

[Soapy V]

Would people rather a Coniglio or get a Brodie and a Pruess and then another Newman?

I have never believed that one player no matter how good is the answer. Personally I much prefer a balanced approach

If at years end we have 6-8 wins and bring in 3-4 good to very good players (another Setterfield would be awesome) and 3 draft picks I will be very happy [emoji2]

 

[Jeremias]

Coniglio or Brodie, Preuss and Newman?

Coniglio and it's not even close.

Bringing him in wouldn't necessarily preclude us from getting any (or all) of the others either.

 

[La Dispute]

Would people rather a Coniglio or get a Brodie and a Pruess and then another Newman?

I have never believed that one player no matter how good is the answer. Personally I much prefer a balanced approach

If at years end we have 6-8 wins and bring in 3-4 good to very good players (another Setterfield would be awesome) and 3 draft picks I will be very happy [emoji2]

So the balanced approach is to keep what we’ve been doing over the course of the rebuild so far? I’d say a far more balanced approach is too look holistically at our list needs and respond accordingly, rather than pursuing the same strategy, which we’ve already begun to deviate away from by chasing Shiel.

No one is saying Coniglio is the answer, but he is AN answer to what we sorely lack: an immediate A-grade midfielder with plenty of years to play out, and will be an integral part of our next flag tilt.

There’s also no reason we can’t bring in more role players in addition to taking Coniglio given the players you highlighted went for little value. It’s not an either/or scenario.

 

[Soapy V]

So the balanced approach is to keep what we’ve been doing over the course of the rebuild so far? I’d say a far more balanced approach is too look holistically at our list needs and respond accordingly, rather than pursuing the same strategy, which we’ve already begun to deviate away from by chasing Shiel.

That has been my point all along

 

[Soapy V]

Coniglio or Brodie, Preuss and Newman?

Coniglio and it's not even close.

Bringing him in wouldn't necessarily preclude us from getting any (or all) of the others either.

We chased Shiel and missed out and as such was able to get Setterfield Stocker & Newman. People may disagree but I think we lucked out by Shiel picking Essendon and by a long way

Also re: Coniglio he has stated he is happy and wants to stay at GWS. If not he is from WA and has strong family ties. IMO Coniglio coming to us is highly unlikely. The bigger question for me will we trade our first round pick (likely Top 10) for an established player

 

[Jabba73]

Cognilio >>>>>>Sheil

Wasn’t happy to pay overs for Sheil, would be more comfortable paying extra cash for Cognilio, especially if it prevented a trade needing to be made.

 

[La Dispute]

That has been my point all along

Your point is because we have Walsh, Stocker and Setterfield we no longer need Coniglio, which to me is ridiculous given they’ve played a combined two games between them to this stage. We don’t know how they will develop, or what kind of ceiling they get to, so there is absolutely no harm in bringing in an established gun which is something we haven’t achieved in our rebuild so far.

 

[Jeremias]

We chased Shiel and missed out and as such was able to get Setterfield Stocker & Newman. People may disagree but I think we lucked out by Shiel picking Essendon and by a long way

We didn't "luck out".

We missed out on our primary target and scored a very good consolation prize.

You may be right re: Stocker, and can mount a very tenuous case for Setterfield, but you cannot seriously suggest bringing in Shiel would have had any impact on our ability to recruit Newman.

Come on now.

Also re: Coniglio he has stated he is happy and wants to stay at GWS. If not he is from WA and has strong family ties. IMO Coniglio coming to us is highly unlikely. The bigger question for me will we trade our first round pick (likely Top 10) for an established player

And if Neale wants out he's from South Australia. Oh wait...

I didn't say Coniglio was likely, but I do very firmly believe if he wants out we should be throwing out hat into the ring in a serious way.

Re: trading first round picks, yes I think we will be active again, and so should we be. Coniglio might be a great target given GWS may match any offer that comes his way. I'd have little hesitation putting our 2019 and 2020 1sts on the table.

 

[Soapy V]

We didn't "luck out".

We missed out on our primary target and scored a very good consolation prize.

You may be right re: Stocker, and can mount a very tenuous case for Setterfield, but you cannot seriously suggest bringing in Shiel would have had any impact on our ability to recruit Newman.

Come on now.

Couldn't disagree more. I believe in the end we got a much better deal. Setterfield will be better than Shiel anyway and Stocker will be a beauty. Not spending the money also allowed us to sign Newman

 

[Soapy V]

I didn't say Coniglio was likely, but I do very firmly believe if he wants out we should be throwing out hat into the ring in a serious way.

Agree. I have never said we wouldn't. I have only asked questions

 

[Soapy V]

Your point is because we have Walsh, Stocker and Setterfield we no longer need Coniglio, which to me is ridiculous given they’ve played a combined two games between them to this stage. We don’t know how they will develop, or what kind of ceiling they get to, so there is absolutely no harm in bringing in an established gun which is something we haven’t achieved in our rebuild so far.

My point has been the value and what it costs. Do we have better needs or use our money better?

I have said all along we won't know until the end of 2019 and IMO our midfield will be good enough. JMO

 

[Brutalitops]

Would people rather a Coniglio or get a Brodie and a Pruess and then another Newman?

I have never believed that one player no matter how good is the answer. Personally I much prefer a balanced approach

If at years end we have 6-8 wins and bring in 3-4 good to very good players (another Setterfield would be awesome) and 3 draft picks I will be very happy [emoji2]

Coniglio. He's a freaking jet. How could you not want him?



Seriously. You dont think we should at least try?

 

[Soapy V]

Cognilio >>>>>>Sheil

Wasn’t happy to pay overs for Sheil, would be more comfortable paying extra cash for Cognilio, especially if it prevented a trade needing to be made.

Interesting. Do many people think similar?

 

[Soapy V]

Coniglio. He's a freaking jet. How could you not want him?



Seriously. You dont think we should at least try?

FFS

 

[Brutalitops]

FFS

Theres no need to be snippy. If we only land one target next year I hope its Coniglio. A bonafide goalkicking mid in his prime. If he wants to come to us we should have a blank cheque waiting.

 

[Soapy V]

Theres no need to be snippy. If we only land one target next year I hope its Coniglio. A bonafide goalkicking mid in his prime. If he wants to come to us we should have a blank cheque waiting.

for the 20th time I have never said ONCE he was no good or we won't try

 

[La Dispute]

My point has been the value and what it costs. Do we have better needs or use our money better?

I have said all along we won't know until the end of 2019 and IMO our midfield will be good enough. JMO

Is he worth (on average) 1m pa? Easily, as a top tier midfielder in his prime.

Do we have better needs? Nope, an established midfield gun is our current priority. Not to say we don’t have other areas we need to address.

We will certainly see progression in our midfielders next season, but that by no means indicates than we can’t go after Coniglio, and there is no reason the players weve drafted can’t co-exist with him in the team (and within the cap).

 

[Soapy V]

Is he worth (on average) 1m pa? Easily, as a top tier midfielder in his prime.

Do we have better needs? Nope, an established midfield gun is our current priority. Not to say we don’t have other areas we need to address.

As I said we won't know until the end of the year but I am very confident that our midfield won't be an area we have to address. Time will tell

IMO I believe Cripps Kennedy SPS Setterfield Dow Walsh Stocker O'Brien Curnow Fisher (10) supported by a couple of Bugg Lang Cuningham Polson Gibbons Williamson Charlie Pickett is as talented and as deep as any going around.

 

[Robertio]

Interesting. Do many people think similar?

Not me i've alway's been greedy, would rather more for my money. That doesn't mean i don't think Coniglio isn't a star.

 

[HARKER]

Couldn't disagree more. I believe in the end we got a much better deal. Setterfield will be better than Shiel anyway and Stocker will be a beauty. Not spending the money also allowed us to sign Newman

So we somehow won for having lost?
That doesn't sound like particularly good list management to me.
In the end, I'm glad we didn't pay what Essendon did for him, but we can't with a straight face suggest we were 'lucky' to have not hit our target.

Look, I know what you're saying and there is plenty of middle ground in this debate, but the one thing we all know (should know) is that one cannot simply wait until the trade period to identify ones primary targets. The way the season unfolds will clearly have some bearing on the filtering of these targets, but the ball must be in play already....which it obviously is and I cannot see a situation where Coniglio would not be of a high interest and particularly so, if we have managed our TPP carefully.

 

[BJuddy]

Interesting. Do many people think similar?

I agree with most of your points re: the risk of going all out to get someone like Coniglio. In particular the cost might be a bit high (not that it is not deserved on his part). But I personally don't think there is a strong argument to be made that Shiel is on the same level as Coniglio.

Coniglio is twice the player that Shiel is and that is saying something cause I think Shiel is a great player, just not a superstar like Coniglio. He is top 10-15 player in the game, vs maybe top 50-60 in Shiel.