List Mgmt. Our Midfield

[thylacine60]

lygon street traders should be making coniglio an offer he can't refuse

 

[Soapy V]

lygon street traders should be making coniglio an offer he can't refuse

Sponsored by Carlton Crew. Maybe we should introduce him to Silvagni’s daughter [emoji15]

 

[Brutalitops]

I'm not saying I don't want Coniglio, I'm just saying I'd prefer to retain our existing group.

Three points:

1. Why do they have to be mutually exclusive?
2. What makes you so certain all our youngsters are gonna kick on and warrant a big pay packet?
3. What happens if one or two want to leave anyways, a la Gibbs? Money cant be the only thing keeping them at the club.

 

[Soapy V]

Three points:

1. Why do they have to be mutually exclusive?
2. What makes you so certain all our youngsters are gonna kick on and warrant a big pay packet?
3. What happens if one or two want to leave anyways, a la Gibbs? Money cant be the only thing keeping them at the club.

1. They don’t
2. They will
3. They won’t

Problem solved [emoji106]

 

[Brutalitops]

1. They don’t
2. They will
3. They won’t

Problem solved [emoji106]

Your responses on two and three are guess-work and contradictory to each other. "They will all kick on and demand big pay packets but will stay at Carlton regardless"?

 

[Soapy V]

Your responses on two and three are guess-work and contradictory to each other. "They will all kick on and demand big pay packets but will stay at Carlton regardless"?

Exactly. All good. Go Blues

 

[Brutalitops]

Exactly. All good. Go Blues

So if theyre staying at Carlton regardless then its time to get the kitchen sink ready for Coniglio.

Problem solved

 

[Soapy V]

So if theyre staying at Carlton regardless then its time to get the kitchen sink ready for Coniglio.

Problem solved

That’s right. If Cognlio is what we need and he wants to come to us and he doesn’t cost us any players. Simple really

 

[Masqualero]

No chance we say no to Conigs end of year if he nominates us.
Barring some crazy injury that lowers his value.

Probably be losing Murphy in the next couple of years, possibly sooner if injuries hit again.
Sucks that we only really got 2 fit years of prime cut Murph.

Ed could have another 5 years but he could also drop off with age within 2-4 and unlike Murphy he doesnt have the base level to be able to drop off, if his running gets impacted he won't be an effective mid because his ball use is decent at its best.

Say in 2 years either of these scenarios pan out we would have:

Cripps 26
Lang 26ish?
Cunners 23
Setterfield 22
SPS 22
Fisher 22
Dow 21
LoB 21
Schumacher 21
Walsh 20
Stocker 20

Gibbons maybe

As of now there is 1 established mid in that group, potentially this could be the best group in the AFL but it could also potentially be the worst in the AFL in 2020.

Progression from last year suggests that Fisher will probably be a good mid for his career, breaking his leg doesn't help though.

I don't like to put lines through names while they are on a list but I don't have confidence that Lang, Cuners and Schumacher (understand he plays HB at VFL level but was drafted as a mid IIRC) can play at AFL level in the middle at least.

Maybe Newman can be added playing on the wing?

Setters hasn't played for 2 years, Walsh and Stocker haven't played at all.

Although we'd like to think that Dow, LoB, SPS and Kennedy will become good players there are no guarantees.

End of the year things may change a bit but I'd say we'd still want elite, mature talent added to our midfield IMO.

To say we won't is like saying "nah, I dont want Coniglio because Dow increased his possesion avg to 20 this year so he will probably be a better option in 2 years time"

I feel this optimism is over the top because we will likely finish bottom 4 yet again but don't need elite AFL players in their prime....

Coming off a 2 win season I just don't understand where the faith comes from to the extent that we wouldn't want someone like Coniglio

 

[thylacine60]

can I respectfully ask who suggested "we wouldn't want someone like Coniglio"?

 

[Jabba73]

can I respectfully ask who suggested "we wouldn't want someone like Coniglio"?

GWS, pretty sure

 

[Soapy V]

No chance we say no to Conigs end of year if he nominates us.
Barring some crazy injury that lowers his value.

Probably be losing Murphy in the next couple of years, possibly sooner if injuries hit again.
Sucks that we only really got 2 fit years of prime cut Murph.

Ed could have another 5 years but he could also drop off with age within 2-4 and unlike Murphy he doesnt have the base level to be able to drop off, if his running gets impacted he won't be an effective mid because his ball use is decent at its best.

Say in 2 years either of these scenarios pan out we would have:

Cripps 26
Lang 26ish?
Cunners 23
Setterfield 22
SPS 22
Fisher 22
Dow 21
LoB 21
Schumacher 21
Walsh 20
Stocker 20

Gibbons maybe

As of now there is 1 established mid in that group, potentially this could be the best group in the AFL but it could also potentially be the worst in the AFL in 2020.

Progression from last year suggests that Fisher will probably be a good mid for his career, breaking his leg doesn't help though.

I don't like to put lines through names while they are on a list but I don't have confidence that Lang, Cuners and Schumacher (understand he plays HB at VFL level but was drafted as a mid IIRC) can play at AFL level in the middle at least.

Maybe Newman can be added playing on the wing?

Setters hasn't played for 2 years, Walsh and Stocker haven't played at all.

Although we'd like to think that Dow, LoB, SPS and Kennedy will become good players there are no guarantees.

End of the year things may change a bit but I'd say we'd still want elite, mature talent added to our midfield IMO.

To say we won't is like saying "nah, I dont want Coniglio because Dow increased his possesion avg to 20 this year so he will probably be a better option in 2 years time"

I feel this optimism is over the top because we will likely finish bottom 4 yet again but don't need elite AFL players in their prime....

Coming off a 2 win season I just don't understand where the faith comes from to the extent that we wouldn't want someone like Coniglio

I’ve read this twice. I still can’t believe it [emoji848]

If Coniglio does nominate us it means we have chased him and offered a contract etc. then of course we would take him

 

[Soapy V]

can I respectfully ask who suggested "we wouldn't want someone like Coniglio"?

No one. Unfortunately a number of people want to make it an argument about who’s right instead of the discussion/debate it was meant to be

Silly thing is at this stage no one is right

 

[thylacine60]

hmmmmm

 

[Masqualero]

I’ve read this twice. I still can’t believe it

can I respectfully ask who suggested "we wouldn't want someone like Coniglio"?

Think I may have misread previous posts, oops...

I do think that the same applies to Shiel though

 

[windows1]

I think a lot here depends on what you see happening in 2019.

Scenario 1: we kill it and make finals even with this young list. In that world I wouldn’t want Conigs. It would mean that most if not all of our young mids have smashed it. That’s the ‘Soapy’ world and if it happens, I agree with him.

Scenario 2: we languish in the bottom 1-3 clubs. In this world, FORGET IT, no one like Conigs is coming.

Scenario 3: we show plenty of promise and win 6-8 games. Probable here is that a couple of the kids just haven’t kicked in and there’s a bit more work to be done. Or they simply aren’t there yet. In any event, in this world, I say go get Coniglio if we can. We need to keep momentum and face the imminent loss of Murphy from the mix. Coniglio is an upgrade and would push us along.

 

[BJuddy]

can I respectfully ask who suggested "we wouldn't want someone like Coniglio"?

best post I have read recently.

Hit the nail on the head.

 

[BlueRenaissance]

Also think SoS should continue to target a midfielder. Think he learned a bit or two about Shiel.

Highest money doesnt win for all players. Shiel accepted good money but less than top money to avoid being labelled a mercenary. Think this is important to some players (not all).

My preference is the Tigers path and go for a more achievable 'mature' solid mid on less than top dollar. This does not impact our list payments and is a need.

A couple of years ago we had Docherty, Byrne, Touhey, Simpson for HBF. Now we have Simpson as the only proven quarterback. This next phase of list mgmt by SoS must include targeting mature age players to fill spots that suffer setbacks like our HB line.

I'm bullish on our midfield group; almost as much as soapy, but not all will go to plan. SoS will be at the ready to fix with some mature age targets. Just think these targets right now should be one tier below a star like Kelly/conigs.

 

[Robert Heatley]

Shiel is a gun, Setterfield has played 2 games & Stocker is yet to debut.

I’m very happy with our work over the offseason but please, let’s be realistic.

You also seem to have grossly overestimated the amount of money we’ve spent on Newman. Missing out on Shiel and bringing in Newman have nothing to do with one another.

I doubt they would have budgeted on losing Byrne. You’d think that covers Newman’s wage.

 

[Soapy V]

Mark down Jye Caldwell as someone we will stay in contact with to come to Carlton in a year or so.

 

[The Bighouse]

We chased Shiel and missed out and as such was able to get Setterfield Stocker & Newman.

Also re: Coniglio he has stated he is happy and wants to stay at GWS. If not he is from WA and has strong family ties. IMO Coniglio coming to us is highly unlikely. The bigger question for me will we trade our first round pick (likely Top 10) for an established player

Have preferred to nab Setterfield over Shiel if we had a choice. Now for Setters to get on the park (along with other perennial injured players).

Don’t discount a VIC club for Coniglio even though he’s from WA (if his GWS loyalty is tested) . Reckon Hawks will be knee deep & the O’Meara connection could assist on their efforts.

 

[The Bighouse]

Mark down Jye Caldwell as someone we will stay in contact with to come to Carlton in a year or so.

This looks likely with the connection with our players from his juniors? See how he fares up at GWS and his injuries.

 

[HARKER]

Mark down Jye Caldwell as someone we will stay in contact with to come to Carlton in a year or so.

There's a long list of players that we'e marking down as targets across this board; Cerra, Caldwell, Taranto, Brodie, etc etc
One more senior mid and I reckon we should be able to park away all those other names with the view turning to goal-kickers and rebounding defenders.

The list isn't in bad shape at all at this stage and our targets have to be finely tuned in order to fit into the puzzle.
Coniglio (in my view) would be a perfect fit should we have some chance to attract him and after that........change tack, as the midfield puzzle should now have all the right pieces in place.

 

[HARKER]

Cognilio >>>>>>Sheil

Wasn’t happy to pay overs for Sheil, would be more comfortable paying extra cash for Cognilio, especially if it prevented a trade needing to be made.

That makes for a good question, even though it's not a question.
I agree that Coniglio is the better player, but would he have been the better player for us?

Shiel has the breakaway speed out of the centre/stoppages that I feel we could have done with.
Dow will get there but not for another couple of years at least, where we can rely on him, week in, week out.

I feel we have to look at the balance of the mids and the types we need to make for the best use out of stoppages.
I haven't the answer but sometimes second best can actually make for the better fit. There's no point in loading up of the same types, you'll only have to rotate around , in order to allow you the best starting balance.

Coniglio though is a goal-kicker which gives him a huge leg up amongst other mids we may care to chase.

 

[I bleed Blue]

How is this even up for debate?

If coniglio wanted to come to Carlton we absolutely make it happen.

Salary cap should be no issue. If it is, we are overpaying alot of unproven talent.

Front load the hell out of his contract. Then in a few years when our young players are starting to come into their prime his pay is back to a reasonable level and we can pay our stars we have developed ourselves.