List Mgmt. Our Midfield

[The Smoking Gun]

Couple of young guns.



Can really launch out of a stoppage can young Master Stocker, although watching him at training would suggest he's still finding his feet in this company. Has a nice sized rig he'll fill out over the next year or so. The club is putting plenty of mileage into his legs trying to extend his endurance.

 

[Jabba73]

Couple of young guns.

View attachment 601036

Can really launch out of a stoppage can young Master Stocker, although watching him at training would suggest he's still finding his feet in this company. Has a nice sized rig he'll fill out over the next year or so. The club is putting plenty of mileage into his legs trying to extend his endurance.

Have backed him as the steal of the draft, seen anything that would make me worried?

 

[Eiffel 65]

Three points:

1. Why do they have to be mutually exclusive?
2. What makes you so certain all our youngsters are gonna kick on and warrant a big pay packet?
3. What happens if one or two want to leave anyways, a la Gibbs? Money cant be the only thing keeping them at the club.

1. Keep in mind we just brought across McGovern on decent coin. Can't recruit them all.

2. Our youngsters are coming good. The signs are there. Don't be fooled by our 2018 season. We're about to climb the ladder.

3. Just look at how quickly some of our recent signings in McKay, Curnow etc have committed. More than a year out before their existing contracts have expired. All our younger players are making a statement that they want to be apart of this rebuild and are there for the journey.

Gibbs was a different story. Was happy to stay but was also chasing success during the latter stage of his career. Just remember he's 30 in March. We got a decade of service from him. That's pretty good if you ask me.

Also, Gibbs leaving allowed us to draft Lochie O'brien, Matt Kennedy and Tom De Koning. Pretty good deal for us if you ask me.

 

[Soapy V]

How is this even up for debate?

If coniglio wanted to come to Carlton we absolutely make it happen.

Salary cap should be no issue. If it is, we are overpaying alot of unproven talent.

Front load the hell out of his contract. Then in a few years when our young players are starting to come into their prime his pay is back to a reasonable level and we can pay our stars we have developed ourselves.

What if our young midfield steps up in 2019 and our obvious need is a Ruck or a key defender?

That’s why it’s being discussed

 

[Eiffel 65]

There's a long list of players that we'e marking down as targets across this board; Cerra, Caldwell, Taranto, Brodie, etc etc
One more senior mid and I reckon we should be able to park away all those other names with the view turning to goal-kickers and rebounding defenders.

The list isn't in bad shape at all at this stage and our targets have to be finely tuned in order to fit into the puzzle.
Coniglio (in my view) would be a perfect fit should we have some chance to attract him and after that........change tack, as the midfield puzzle should now have all the right pieces in place.

Don't think Freo will let Cerra go. He has also just signed a 2 year extension.

Taranto is probably untouchable now that GWS have cleared cap space.

Brodie wouldn't be of interest to us now that we've traded for Setterfield.

Caldwell is a tough, balanced, quick and hard running midfielder that we could use one more of. GWS still have a strong midfield, which could mean he'll spend a lot of time in the NEAFL. He is probably the most gettable player of the lot. Our club would also have a few familiar faces to him. I can genuinely see this trade happening. Maybe Adelaide's 2019 first round selection.

Yes, I agree. Add one more midfielder then focus our attention to hard running defenders and small forwards.

 

[The Smoking Gun]

Have backed him as the steal of the draft, seen anything that would make me worried?

Too early to tell.

 

[Jabba73]

Too early to tell.

Will take that as a no then ...

Thanks!

 

[thylacine60]

Too early to tell.

text only post? this some kind of sick joke?

 

[katmanblue]

lygon street traders should be making coniglio an offer he can't refuse

If you can get me his number, I'll do it.

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[The Bighouse]

Caldwell is a tough, balanced, quick and hard running midfielder that we could use one more of. GWS still have a strong midfield, which could mean he'll spend a lot of time in the NEAFL. He is probably the most gettable player of the lot. Our club would also have a few familiar faces to him. I can genuinely see this trade happening. Maybe Adelaide's 2019 first round selection.

.

See how Caldwell adjusts to AFL firstly but don’t think clubs are in the habit of giving up their 1st choice (and much wanted player) after 1yr = bad for business.

Interesting on how the midfield grows this year with eyes on Kennedy, Setterfield, Dow, Fisher, SPS, Walsh to jump up (hopefully Stocker as the year progresses, if not ready to commence with plus possibly Gibbons & Sam Fisher) and LOB, DC, maybe Willo on the outside whilst Lang can hopefully get an uninjured run at it.

 

[The Smoking Gun]

Will take that as a no then ...

Thanks!

I think Valente at Pick 32 was the nick of the draft. Easily. Would've quite happily taken him where we got Stocker.

text only post? this some kind of sick joke?

Shut up

 

[Soapy V]

Don't think Freo will let Cerra go. He has also just signed a 2 year extension.

Taranto is probably untouchable now that GWS have cleared cap space.

Brodie wouldn't be of interest to us now that we've traded for Setterfield.

Caldwell is a tough, balanced, quick and hard running midfielder that we could use one more of. GWS still have a strong midfield, which could mean he'll spend a lot of time in the NEAFL. He is probably the most gettable player of the lot. Our club would also have a few familiar faces to him. I can genuinely see this trade happening. Maybe Adelaide's 2019 first round selection.

Yes, I agree. Add one more midfielder then focus our attention to hard running defenders and small forwards.

I think we will need a very good ruck in next year or so

 

[Soapy V]

Have backed him as the steal of the draft, seen anything that would make me worried?

Running capacity only issue and being addressed. The way he works it won't be an issue.

 

[Jeremias]

If your judging it now then yes BUT IMO we will be so much better off. It's not about the now. Setterfield was drafted Pick 5 and we rated Stocker 6. We also still have another first round pick next year (another gun) which wouldn't have happened. If we had got Shiel we wouldn't have discussed Newman as a possibility. Losing Shiel on $1.2m and instead bringing in Setterfield ($400k) & Stocker (draftee) made it easier for us to offer Newman ($350k approx) over 2-3 years. If we had got Shiel we would have done little else

There are no guarantees with Setterfield or Stocker or even Walsh.

We are of course hopeful and optimistic and so we should be, but there is always the chance they don't develop into the player we think they may or are capable of.

I agree that had we recruited Shiel we would have found it tough to maneuver the pieces to get Stocker, but had both he and Setterfield nominated us, I am confident we would have found a way to get them.

Not sure why you continue to talk about Newman here given bringing in Shiel would have had exactly zero impact on the decision or ability to get him, and vice versa.

Instead of Shiel we got Setterfield, Stocker, Newman and still have a First Round pick to come next year and money left to chase someone else. IMO that is way better

You disagree and that's fine but IMO we are just so much better off. Easily

Are? No.

Might be. Absolutely.

But there's a reason why Shiel was our #1 target and for that exact same reason expect Coniglio and Kelly to be firmly in our sights at the end of 2019.

The other bonus is we made Essendon pay way overs for a player that has 2-3 years at his best and won't lead them to a flag Also GWS got Caldwell with their pick and IMO will be elite and they still have a pick to go.

I'm holding fire on Essendon - they massively underperformed in 2018. A fit Daniher and Shiel make a huge difference.

Not sure that holds much relevance to the discussion though.

 

[Soapy V]

There are no guarantees with Setterfield or Stocker or even Walsh.

We are of course hopeful and optimistic and so we should be, but there is always the chance they don't develop into the player we think they may or are capable of.

I agree that had we recruited Shiel we would have found it tough to maneuver the pieces to get Stocker, but had both he and Setterfield nominated us, I am confident we would have found a way to get them.

Not sure why you continue to talk about Newman here given bringing in Shiel would have had exactly zero impact on the decision or ability to get him, and vice versa.



Are? No.

Might be. Absolutely.

But there's a reason why Shiel was our #1 target and for that exact same reason expect Coniglio and Kelly to be firmly in our sights at the end of 2019.



I'm holding fire on Essendon - they massively underperformed in 2018. A fit Daniher and Shiel make a huge difference.

Not sure that holds much relevance to the discussion though.

Disagree totally but I've made my points. We are the big winners and have done well. I'm very happy

 

[BJuddy]

I'm holding fire on Essendon - they massively underperformed in 2018. A fit Daniher and Shiel make a huge difference.

Not sure that holds much relevance to the discussion though.

Think you are being very generous on the Dopers.

Daniher is overrated an Shiel will help but they lack class everywhere. Have a few good players but no real A graders beside Heppell and Shiel

Underperformed this year yeah i'll give you that, but massively underperformed, no. They don't play like a team. They are soft when the heat is put on them. Showcased by us beating them in more physical contests over the last few years.

JMO but don't think they are very good. They are Old and overrated. and given what they have been through with their cheating i think it has breed a mental weakness in them.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

lygon street traders should be making coniglio an offer he can't refuse

The Coniglios are a big wealthy family well known in construction circles in Perth..... Just sayin.

 

[La Dispute]

Think you are being very generous on the Dopers.

Daniher is overrated an Shiel will help but they lack class everywhere. Have a few good players but no real A graders beside Heppell and Shiel

Underperformed this year yeah i'll give you that, but massively underperformed, no. They don't play like a team. They are soft when the heat is put on them. Showcased by us beating them in more physical contests over the last few years.

JMO but don't think they are very good. They are Old and overrated. and given what they have been through with their cheating i think it has breed a mental weakness in them.

None of this is accurate, apart from possibly being a little soft.

No class anywhere? Through the midfield they’ve got Shiel, Merrett, Heppell and Smith.

Up forward they’ve got Daniher, Hooker, Fantasia and Tippenwuti.

They’ve got Hurley down back and developing guns in McGrath and Francis plus some handy role players.

Who’s old in their team? And why is us beating them somehow an accurate approximation of where they are at? They beat some very good teams last year, and had a strong finish. You can’t cherry-perry their worst game to undermine them.

I’ve still got my doubts on them, but I’m backing them to make the 8 next year.

 

[Soapy V]

None of this is accurate, apart from possibly being a little soft.

No class anywhere? Through the midfield they’ve got Shiel, Merrett, Heppell and Smith.

Up forward they’ve got Daniher, Hooker, Fantasia and Tippenwuti.

They’ve got Hurley down back and developing guns in McGrath and Francis plus some handy role players.

Who’s old in their team? And why is us beating them somehow an accurate approximation of where they are at? They beat some very good teams last year, and had a strong finish. You can’t cherry-perry their worst game to undermine them.

I’ve still got my doubts on them, but I’m backing them to make the 8 next year.

I reckon they will be anywhere from 8-14. Lack class and real depth. Daniher still not training. IMO Juddy is fairly accurate

 

[Soapy V]

The Coniglios are a big wealthy family well known in construction circles in Perth..... Just sayin.

Do you reckon he will stay?

 

[BJuddy]

None of this is accurate, apart from possibly being a little soft.

No class anywhere? Through the midfield they’ve got Shiel, Merrett, Heppell and Smith.

Up forward they’ve got Daniher, Hooker, Fantasia and Tippenwuti.

They’ve got Hurley down back and developing guns in McGrath and Francis plus some handy role players.

Who’s old in their team? And why is us beating them somehow an accurate approximation of where they are at? They beat some very good teams last year, and had a strong finish. You can’t cherry-perry their worst game to undermine them.

I’ve still got my doubts on them, but I’m backing them to make the 8 next year.

Thats the beauty of opinions. You've got yours and I've got mine.

I didn't say they have "No Class anywhere" I said they lack class everywhere.

Daniher is overrated in my opinion, but again my opinion and I get that it might not be everyones.

Hooker is good but not great, could be. Fantasia lacks consistency and Tippa is again good.

Hurley Im not sold on.

The team is not young yet they have no 200+ gamers. Personally I think their list is in no mans land. (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-12-30/how-the-old-bombers-are-losing-the-experience-race)

There are a few players I like watching play from their club but they are not a team and don't play for each other.

My point about us beating them was that they are soft, this was showcased with us bringing a bit of physicality to the contest and they fell apart multiple games over a few years.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

Do you reckon he will stay?

I have no inside info.

I think so based on what happened this year when he could have put his hand up if he wanted to. I joke but the Coniglios used to have the playing group around for a BBQ when we travelled to Perth, prior to 2016. I think the club didn't want a distracting social event after that. His parents actually changed clubs to the Giants when we drafted him.

 

[Blue and Blue]

I have no inside info.

I think so based on what happened this year when he could have put his hand up if he wanted to. I joke but the Coniglios used to have the playing group around for a BBQ when we travelled to Perth, prior to 2016. I think the club didn't want a distracting social event after that. His parents actually changed clubs to the Giants when we drafted him.

They may have to change clubs again......

 

[La Dispute]

Thats the beauty of opinions. You've got yours and I've got mine.

I didn't say they have "No Class anywhere" I said they lack class everywhere.

Daniher is overrated in my opinion, but again my opinion and i get that it might not be everyones.

Hooker is good but not great, could be. Fantasia lacks consistancy and Tippa is again good.

Hurley Im not sold on.

The team is the is not young yet they have no 200+ gamers. Personally I think their list is in no mans land. (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-12-30/how-the-old-bombers-are-losing-the-experience-race)

There are a few players I like watching play from their club but they are not a team and don't play for each other.

My point about us beating them was that they are soft, this was showcases with us bringing a bit of physicality to the contest and they fell apart multiple games over a few years.

Nothing about what you’ve said is substantial.

You’ve said they lack class everywhere, which is the opposite side of the same coin. Every team has classy players and workers, you can’t have a 22 full of X-factor players, which Essendon actually have in abundance. They need more toilers.

So they’re just ‘comparably old’, which is flimsy at best. They’ve got very few players (if any) over 30 in their best 22. They’re just about at the prime age. Being especially young doesn’t make a team good. Their age profile reflects the upward trajectory they were on before the supplements scandal, when they had a good spread of developing talent. This is effectively their second push after spending a few years resetting (although not by choice).

You can not rate their players all you want, but Daniher is an All-Australian and Hurley has 2 AA’s. Regardless how you weight these attributions, they are clearly quality players for their position. Getting Daniher fit is their main concern at the moment.

Again, taking one game and trying to use it as illustrative is always reductive and I’ll-advised. They managed to beat all of West Coast, Geelong, GWS and Sydney last year. Week-to-week consistency is a far better explanation for their lapses, which were mostly early on in the season.

 

[Isaac Cumming No 1]

They may have to change clubs again......

Maybe

Hopefully they weren't offended when the guys stopped going around for dinner.

On a number of levels.

Seriously if he does go it's very likely to WA.