Our Midfield

[Noidnadroj]

You know Dunstan would have been for free right? Melbourne aren't stupid enough to hand over their first for him

Yeah, and what do we do? Play Dunstan in the centre bounce at the expense of Dow, RCD, Ross and Sonsie?

The reason we haven’t got great midfield depth is because we won three flags and opportunity wasn’t there for our young mids. Yet people are crying out for cast offs like Dunstan to continue costing our young mids game time.

We either get elite ‘young’ players via draft/free agency - (eg. Tom Green), or we keep going to the draft.

Getting anyone around 24-28yo (Dunstan, Tom Mitchell) who might give us a brief sugar hit but ultimately cost development opportunity for youngsters is just crazy.

Hawks did that, got a sugar hit of top-4 in 2018 and now look at where they sit….7th year after their last flag and stuck with Mitchell, O’Meara, Philips and Wingard on relatively big money for another 4-5 seasons each, when those 4 could have been 5 x top-25 draft picks now turning 23yo plus an extra $2.5m in the cap.

Carlton had the worst midfield depth in the competition in 2021…. Cerra, Hewett and a re-born Kennedy (has been on list for 3-years) transformed it in one off-season.

So long as you keep drafting in quality and have enough puzzle pieces to work around then finishing off the list build is easy.

History tells you when starting a rebuild that paying big money and giving up draft picks for ‘sugar hits’ is where clubs fall over time and time again.


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[Noidnadroj]

I still don’t understand why we drafted so many defenders last year. Gibcus I understand but I was spewing we didn’t trade up to get Hobbs as well. Drafting Banks and Clarke was baffling, we could’ve used those picks to get a big inside mid or two.


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Give me a name of the big bodied mid you wanted in the draft? Banks and Clarke picks might have got us up to Pick-20… gimme a name?

And trade up for Hobbs ..?? The Brown/Sonsie picks would be needed to get us to Hobbs. It’s very very early but right now I’m taking Brown and Sonsie over Hobbs.


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[Grrr]

What I saw was a midfield that was too small for the one it faced, lost the best player to injury, and had an undone Graham. In the game Cotch was outdone, and the rest were poor.

Basically we lost it in selection and to injury. Dimma and co were too 'smart'.

After the game Dimma said we were beaten by a midfield that was too big and strong. I hope he listens to himself and se go in for a bigger stronger midfield from here on in. Sacrifice some talent/experience to just be able to hold our own physically. And that would help RCD and Dow's development. With any luck they'll hold their own and our midfield will be better for it.

Sounds about right. Sort of funny the extremes that are going one, some proclaiming rebuild, some sh'll be right mate. It was pretty obvious to all, and last seasons results backed it up, but we are not a strong midfield group any more. We have plenty of good players in there, but no real A graders besides Martin, who with good reason looked to be testing the waters on Thursday night. We lacked any hardness at the ball once Prestia was gone, and were too small, mainly due to Cripps being so big, strong and fit.

But there are not that many A graders, well ones that can take you apart, maybe half a dozen in the league, so you don't really need them, just a good core of good ones with a pack weight and scrapping ability that is close to your opponents. We had neither after 1/4 time.

To balance this some new kids need to be played through there. Ross, RCD and Dow should all be given a decent go, not all at once but to see how they go. Dimma chose Aarts over Ross. Aarts is a good scrapper, but that is all he is. Ross at least has had some good games as an inside mid. As you say Dr. T, our midfield will be better for it and will at least even out the size difference somewhat.

 

[Noidnadroj]

No, two kicks he put in resulted in goals and 4 others points. Yes one bad kick turn-over in the last and one handpass, which he normally hits. We turned the ball over all night. You can't just rewrite 3/4 of the game based on your own prejudice and a couple of bad blues in the last. Many on here have said he played well, so somewhere in the middle is probably the closest.

For whatever reason Ross has the habit of committing clangers which cost goals and change momentum of games. He’s certainly worth persisting with but for some reason his errors just seem to come at a point where we have momentum so we lose it, or we are trying to get back momentum or slow the play down with an uncontested possession and he fluffs an unpressured kick.

Hopefully he can iron that out with experience.


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[Vassp]

For whatever reason Ross has the habit of committing clangers which cost goals and change momentum of games. He’s certainly worth persisting with but for some reason his errors just seem to come at a point where we have momentum so we lose it, or we are trying to get back momentum or slow the play down with an uncontested possession and he fluffs an unpressured kick.

Hopefully he can iron that out with experience.


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Ross was staring when he debuted a few years back.....I have not seen him play a good game since. Time for waiting is over...
Time to move him on to another team.
Graham....is too slow when we are already lacking speed. he has to go too.
We might as well start with the kids. better that than playing like we did last year and finishing 12th. Because unless we get some spark for 4 quarters we are done. our wins will be vs the bottom 6 teams.

 

[Grrr]

For whatever reason Ross has the habit of committing clangers which cost goals and change momentum of games. He’s certainly worth persisting with but for some reason his errors just seem to come at a point where we have momentum so we lose it, or we are trying to get back momentum or slow the play down with an uncontested possession and he fluffs an unpressured kick.

Hopefully he can iron that out with experience.


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He is no wingman that is why. He came as an inside mid and has played good games there. He is at least busy round the ball and uses it by hand generally constructively. He may or may not be good enough, time will tell but I thought after Prestia went down he and Graham were the pretty obvious choices to go in there. For some reason he was left out on the wing.

 

[Grrr]

Ross was staring when he debuted a few years back.....I have not seen him play a good game since. Time for waiting is over...
Time to move him on to another team.
Graham....is too slow when we are already lacking speed. he has to go too.
We might as well start with the kids. better that than playing like we did last year and finishing 12th. Because unless we get some spark for 4 quarters we are done. our wins will be vs the bottom 6 teams.

Ross against the Hawks last game '21 was about our best player when finally put back in the guts. He played a few games there early last year and was awful, that is not talent, that is confidence, second year blues what ever you want to call it. So after a good preseason it is about time he was backed for a few games, especially when we have no defensively minded mids, the type that tackle and put their body over the ball.

 

[Aristotle Pickett the3rd]

We should of got Lipinski or a Brisbane mid.
Bring in Sydney Stack

44

Sydney Stack

Age

26

Ht

179cm

Wt

75kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.5

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

8.7

5star

M

4.1

4star

T

3.0

5star

MG

202.0

3star

D

9.8

2star

K

3.4

1star

HB

6.4

4star

M

1.4

2star

T

2.8

4star

MG

133.0

2star

D

16.2

4star

K

7.2

3star

HB

9.0

5star

M

5.6

5star

T

3.0

5star

MG

227.4

4star

for some strength through the midfield.

 

[Lord of the Wings]

Ross against the Hawks last game '21 was about our best player when finally put back in the guts. He played a few games there early last year and was awful, that is not talent, that is confidence, second year blues what ever you want to call it. So after a good preseason it is about time he was backed for a few games, especially when we have no defensively minded mids, the type that tackle and put their body over the ball.

His disposal is not good enough irrespective of where he plays. His turnovers due to poor skill cost us 3 goals at crucial times last week. If McIntosh plays instead of Ross then we very likely win.

 

[Not Important]

Give me a name of the big bodied mid you wanted in the draft? Banks and Clarke picks might have got us up to Pick-20… gimme a name?

And trade up for Hobbs ..?? The Brown/Sonsie picks would be needed to get us to Hobbs. It’s very very early but right now I’m taking Brown and Sonsie over Hobbs.


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the hornet.

 

[Grrr]

His disposal is not good enough irrespective of where he plays. His turnovers due to poor skill cost us 3 goals at crucial times last week. If McIntosh plays instead of Ross then we very likely win.

That will improve with confidence and continuity, if he gets the chance. Using the whipping boy MacIntosh as an example of good ball use is probably not your best choice. (I actually reckon Mac's disposal is not that bad).

Players like Broad, Grimes, Rance, Edwards, Prestia, Balta, MacIntosh, Pickett, did/have regularly turned it over at some stages in their careers. Dusty often does one or two a game. Stack was an exquisite kick in his first year when up and running with confidence, last few years he had some howlers.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Carlton had the worst midfield depth in the competition in 2021…. Cerra, Hewett and a re-born Kennedy (has been on list for 3-years) transformed it in one off-season.

So long as you keep drafting in quality and have enough puzzle pieces to work around then finishing off the list build is easy.

Dimma said as much in the presser - compared the Carlton off-season acquisitions to us turning things around completely in one off-season with the Prestia/Nank/Caddy trades.

Strongly hinting that we will do the same again over the next couple of years.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Sounds about right. Sort of funny the extremes that are going one, some proclaiming rebuild, some sh'll be right mate. It was pretty obvious to all, and last seasons results backed it up, but we are not a strong midfield group any more.

Were we ever mate?

None of the flags were won on the back of anything resembling a superior midfield, we broke even at best most of the time and won the game from elsewhere.

Whether that tactic still stacks up only time will tell, but again last week, we were getting smashed in clearances well before the last quarter pile-on, but leading on the scoreboard.

2-3 iffy 50's don't happen and it would have been close, if not a win, while being doubled in clearances.

Don't get me wrong, I hate getting smashed in the stoppages, but historically, it hasn't been an area of strength and it hasn't mattered.

 

[Rioli2Rioli]

A week really is a long time in footy hahaha

Very true and the sky is falling , Our entire team need a revamp etc etc

Richmond were 20 points up early in the 4th quarter

Things are never as bad as they seem.

Like i said , we have a decent list of younger players and some good older players that will be around for a few more years
We invested in players like Prestia , Lynch , Caddy , Nank and paid good coin to keep players like sheds , cotch , martin , etc and things catchup and you need to see these contracts through.

Get the right young players in place and go after gun players when the cap is in a better shape at the end of 2023 and go again

 

[beema limapep]

Things are as bad as the seem, because they are.

Should have got Lipinski as a minimum

 

[Grrr]

Were we ever mate?

None of the flags were won on the back of anything resembling a superior midfield, we broke even at best most of the time and won the game from elsewhere.

Whether that tactic still stacks up only time will tell, but again last week, we were getting smashed in clearances well before the last quarter pile-on, but leading on the scoreboard.

2-3 iffy 50's don't happen and it would have been close, if not a win, while being doubled in clearances.

Don't get me wrong, I hate getting smashed in the stoppages, but historically, it hasn't been an area of strength and it hasn't mattered.

We were a strong midfield group, but not a strong clearance side. Let the players you can't stop getting the ball get it then sweat on the bloke they gave it too. Worked so well because we were elite forward runners. Martin did it all, but Prestia, Edwards, Bolton, Lambert etc were great clearance in space players. Cotchin brought the heat. Which is why I am not overly concerned after an inconsistent performance last week. We were up at 3/4 time even thought we weren't playing well. Carlton deserve credit, their midfield is very good, especially with Cripps free of injury finally.

The problem is you need a B plan for when losing the stoppages starts to hurt, and we didn't have one. We won't get anywhere this season relying on the same old same old. New kids have to be going through the midfield, especially those with a bit of inside ability.

 

[Morro]

Very true and the sky is falling , Our entire team need a revamp etc etc

Richmond were 20 points up early in the 4th quarter

Things are never as bad as they seem.

Like i said , we have a decent list of younger players and some good older players that will be around for a few more years
We invested in players like Prestia , Lynch , Caddy , Nank and paid good coin to keep players like sheds , cotch , martin , etc and things catchup and you need to see these contracts through.

Get the right young players in place and go after gun players when the cap is in a better shape at the end of 2023 and go again

We were always relying on a healthy list to contend this year and Prestia is as close to our most important player as any.

I also think many here are underestimating the Carlton team. They actually have a great spine and very deep and strong midfield now.

 

[Lord of the Wings]

We were always relying on a healthy list to contend this year and Prestia is as close to our most important player as any.

I also think many here are underestimating the Carlton team. They actually have a great spine and very deep and strong midfield now.

Carlton are a middle of the road team and it seems were are now also.

 

[Dr Tigris]

Sounds about right. Sort of funny the extremes that are going one, some proclaiming rebuild, some sh'll be right mate. It was pretty obvious to all, and last seasons results backed it up, but we are not a strong midfield group any more. We have plenty of good players in there, but no real A graders besides Martin, who with good reason looked to be testing the waters on Thursday night. We lacked any hardness at the ball once Prestia was gone, and were too small, mainly due to Cripps being so big, strong and fit.

But there are not that many A graders, well ones that can take you apart, maybe half a dozen in the league, so you don't really need them, just a good core of good ones with a pack weight and scrapping ability that is close to your opponents. We had neither after 1/4 time.

To balance this some new kids need to be played through there. Ross, RCD and Dow should all be given a decent go, not all at once but to see how they go. Dimma chose Aarts over Ross. Aarts is a good scrapper, but that is all he is. Ross at least has had some good games as an inside mid. As you say Dr. T, our midfield will be better for it and will at least even out the size difference somewhat.

Yep. We don't need to win the inside mid contest. We need to nullify it. Outside that area we are close to, of not actually, the best team in the AFL. You saw that Thursday, when the inside contest was even we ripped them apart. But once we lost control inside we got spanked.

And that is not a new thing. Been going on for 5 years. What happened against the Blues was what happens when we lose control of the inside game for years. My worry isn't that we lost that control. It's that we have bugger all cover for guys to stop that loss of control. That requires size, hardness and relentlessness. Cotch used to do that - best in the business. But I reckon he needs help now.

 

[Morro]

Carlton are a middle of the road team and it seems were are now also.

Like I said, underestimating them

 

[DoItForCaptBlood]

Who is our midfield coach atm?

 

[Grrr]

Carlton are a middle of the road team and it seems were are now also.

Carlton's midfield is pretty hand, the rest pretty middle of the road. But they got a good run on out of the middle, a bit like Melb. in the GF. We couldn't stop them.

 

[Morro]

Who is our midfield coach atm?

Tiger71 I think?

 

[Morro]

Our problem last year and rd 1 this year is we are continually looking at the same blokes to play midfield despite all of them being on the decline.

last round against Hawks in 2021 our kids played extremely well yet rd 1, we dont play any of them in the guts and instead rush back Graham underdone, persist with Cotch who was rubbish, keep Bolton forward etc etc.

Its time to trust the kids and give them a chance.

 

[Lord of the Wings]

Tiger71 I think?

McQualter and Clarke. Both are underwhelming. Teague has the forward line and Kingsley defense.