Our Midfield

[Bird Man]

Well well few on here gonna eat their words…

Team actually turned up and walked us in the middle. If GWS had the the mentality of saints we would be 0-3

 

[Football Tragic]

Our midfield was one of the biggest reason we lost this week. We ran out of steam at the end when they had to reshuffle players to cover Grimes. I didn't see but did they move McIntosh into defense and Aarts to the wing? Whatever happened we need to make sure we do not play people who are not 100%, particularly our older players. We can't cover them especially when they are in key positions.

For me, I'd love to see Sonsie into the side next week.

 

[TigerImposter]

Cotchin, ROSS, Edwards , Dow and Graham isn't a midfield that's going to win you too many games. Sonsie was impressive again today in the VFL and I still remain with my statement that he was the pick of the 21 draft.

 

[banzai]

Sonsie looked better than the VFL level I thought. Obviously he has to work at his disposal but that will come. RCD looks like he belongs at VFL level unfortunately. He really should be dominating by now but doesnt. His body shape really doesnt look like an AFL player either.

 

[Simche]

Cotchin, ROSS, Edwards , Dow and Graham isn't a midfield that's going to win you too many games. Sonsie was impressive again today in the VFL and I still remain with my statement that he was the pick of the 21 draft.

Spot on.

Think there's a post a few pages back that indicates our midfield is 'top four' once you add Prestia, Lambert and Dusty. I don't agree with that because it isn't 2018 anymore. The reality is that Prestia can't stay on the park, Lambert is so badly injured he may never recapture his from and who knows where Dusty is at.

Cotchin has clearly gone a year too long, but the sad reality is that we just don't have the cattle to have allowed him to retire. I see post after post pointing at RCD, Ross, Graham and co. Fair enough, give RCD a prolonged go at AFL level, can't hurt anymore. The other two I think are never going to raise their level and if we're going to get back to competing they need to replaced with better quality mids with more strings to their bow.

Sonsie deserves a go. Dow should be persevered with. I can't think of too many other options than loading up at the draft given that Dusty and Lynch are owed a fair bit of coin and I'm not sure we'd look too good at the moment to a midfield free agent given we're likely due for a few years down the bottom.

There's a fair bit to be positive about. Great young KPPs in Balta and Gibcus. A good core of young players and blokes that aren't too old to be there for another crack like Short, Vlastuin and Nank. Time to start planning a rebuild of the midfield though.

 

[Marcel Proust]

Sonsie looked better than the VFL level I thought. Obviously he has to work at his disposal but that will come. RCD looks like he belongs at VFL level unfortunately. He really should be dominating by now but doesnt. His body shape really doesnt look like an AFL player either.

How so?

 

[Marcel Proust]

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Bolton most CBA outside nank last game

 

[Grrr]

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Bolton most CBA outside nank last game

Interesting that Graham who played his best game for the season has slowly gone back to his role at half forward, started 44% in the centre bounce, down to 8% on the weekend. Not really the centre square mid he might have been. Dow has taken his place and doing a good job. Edwards was back in there more this week and started to show a bit more form. Still reckon there is room for someone like RCD to come in, didn't have his best game in the VFL on the weekend but when put back in the guts was good after half time.

 

[Simche]

CBAs - DFS Australia

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Bolton most CBA outside nank last game

We look so much better with him in there. If only Dion could also stay fit......

 

[Noidnadroj]

Spot on.

Think there's a post a few pages back that indicates our midfield is 'top four' once you add Prestia, Lambert and Dusty. I don't agree with that because it isn't 2018 anymore. The reality is that Prestia can't stay on the park, Lambert is so badly injured he may never recapture his from and who knows where Dusty is at.

Cotchin has clearly gone a year too long, but the sad reality is that we just don't have the cattle to have allowed him to retire. I see post after post pointing at RCD, Ross, Graham and co. Fair enough, give RCD a prolonged go at AFL level, can't hurt anymore. The other two I think are never going to raise their level and if we're going to get back to competing they need to replaced with better quality mids with more strings to their bow.

Sonsie deserves a go. Dow should be persevered with. I can't think of too many other options than loading up at the draft given that Dusty and Lynch are owed a fair bit of coin and I'm not sure we'd look too good at the moment to a midfield free agent given we're likely due for a few years down the bottom.

There's a fair bit to be positive about. Great young KPPs in Balta and Gibcus. A good core of young players and blokes that aren't too old to be there for another crack like Short, Vlastuin and Nank. Time to start planning a rebuild of the midfield though.

The midfield ‘has’ been rebuilding. But it’s very, very difficult to find quality mids outside the top-15 of the draft. Unfortunately it appears we’ve missed with RCD, Ross and Martyn. But we’ve been able to nail Dow, Bolton and hopefully Sonsie with picks in the 20’s, as well as Graham in the 50’s.

It goes without saying we desperately need Prestia to stay fit and Dusty and Lambert to return if we want to compete with the best sides in 2022.

However, the future of our midfield is not looking disastrous given Graham has just turned 24yo, Bolton is 23yo, Dow is 20yo and Sonsie is 19yo.

Hopefully we get another quality midfielder in this year’s draft and secure a free agent or trade in the next couple of years to give us 6 x quality midfielders (this assumes none of RCD, Ross, Martyn or Stack are part of the midfield future) who will have 5-years together at the peak of their powers from 2025-2029.

I was fairly pessimistic 3-weeks ago, but Dow’s form in the last few weeks and Sonsie’s obvious quality gives reason for great optimism.


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[Dr Tigris]

The midfield ‘has’ been rebuilding. But it’s very, very difficult to find quality mids outside the top-15 of the draft. Unfortunately it appears we’ve missed with RCD, Ross and Martyn. But we’ve been able to nail Dow, Bolton and hopefully Sonsie with picks in the 20’s, as well as Graham in the 50’s.

It goes without saying we desperately need Prestia to stay fit and Dusty and Lambert to return if we want to compete with the best sides in 2022.

However, the future of our midfield is not looking disastrous given Graham has just turned 24yo, Bolton is 23yo, Dow is 20yo and Sonsie is 19yo.

Hopefully we get another quality midfielder in this year’s draft and secure a free agent or trade in the next couple of years to give us 6 x quality midfielders (this assumes none of RCD, Ross, Martyn or Stack are part of the midfield future) who will have 5-years together at the peak of their powers from 2025-2029.

I was fairly pessimistic 3-weeks ago, but Dow’s form in the last few weeks and Sonsie’s obvious quality gives reason for great optimism.


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Agree. I think that players like RCD and Ross can fill a role player spot - basically compete and take the hammering. Stack is a boom or bust type to me. If he clicks then we are in for a great ride with a tough, high quality midfield. If not, I'll be sad - so much talent left to waste.

 

[Grrr]

I think RCD is going to work still. He played half forward for much of the game on the weekend but back in the middle after half time he worked into the game well and was our best mid in the end. It's round 4 and he is learning a new role so that when he comes in he will have a second position. Has a good all round game. There is no room in the midfield right now, so he has to be patient. In that time he can really get his game going and when he comes in he will be in fit and in form, unlike the last two years with little VFA to play. You have to be patient with some players.

 

[Simche]

The midfield ‘has’ been rebuilding. But it’s very, very difficult to find quality mids outside the top-15 of the draft. Unfortunately it appears we’ve missed with RCD, Ross and Martyn. But we’ve been able to nail Dow, Bolton and hopefully Sonsie with picks in the 20’s, as well as Graham in the 50’s.

It goes without saying we desperately need Prestia to stay fit and Dusty and Lambert to return if we want to compete with the best sides in 2022.

However, the future of our midfield is not looking disastrous given Graham has just turned 24yo, Bolton is 23yo, Dow is 20yo and Sonsie is 19yo.

Hopefully we get another quality midfielder in this year’s draft and secure a free agent or trade in the next couple of years to give us 6 x quality midfielders (this assumes none of RCD, Ross, Martyn or Stack are part of the midfield future) who will have 5-years together at the peak of their powers from 2025-2029.

I was fairly pessimistic 3-weeks ago, but Dow’s form in the last few weeks and Sonsie’s obvious quality gives reason for great optimism.


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I love your optimism but the reality is that Sonsie hasn't played a senior game yet and Graham has shown he's not going to be anything more than a bit part defensive midfielder. Signs from Martyn this year are a bit worrying also.

Sydney Stack I would be VERY surprised if he becomes part of the midfield rotation. Has played his best footy off half back, but I am not sure there's a spot for him there with Rioli, Ralphsmith, Baker and Short all needing to play (then you add in guys like Vlastuin, Broad, Grimes, Gibcus and Taz). Hasn't shown that he can play on the wing and I think generally sides tend to go with larger wingers these days given their role tucking in with the defensive setup, helping in the air and then spreading the play (think someone like Mackintosh or Mitch Robinson at the Lions).

Bolton needs more time in the guts as per the weekend and Dow looks like a find. Hopefully Sonsie gets to this level (and quickly) but I hold out virtually zero hope for RCD at current.

 

[Drunken Wookie]

How so?

He's got a good frame on him but he should look a lot stronger by now. He's not a skinny 18 year old, he's got the capacity to add size and strength but he still looks like the same big country kid we drafted 4 years ago.

 

[Marcel Proust]

He's got a good frame on him but he should look a lot stronger by now. He's not a skinny 18 year old, he's got the capacity to add size and strength but he still looks like the same big country kid we drafted 4 years ago.

He seems to break someone's face every game.

He is pretty strong and cracks in imho

 

[Noidnadroj]

I love your optimism but the reality is that Sonsie hasn't played a senior game yet and Graham has shown he's not going to be anything more than a bit part defensive midfielder. Signs from Martyn this year are a bit worrying also.

Sydney Stack I would be VERY surprised if he becomes part of the midfield rotation. Has played his best footy off half back, but I am not sure there's a spot for him there with Rioli, Ralphsmith, Baker and Short all needing to play (then you add in guys like Vlastuin, Broad, Grimes, Gibcus and Taz). Hasn't shown that he can play on the wing and I think generally sides tend to go with larger wingers these days given their role tucking in with the defensive setup, helping in the air and then spreading the play (think someone like Mackintosh or Mitch Robinson at the Lions).

Bolton needs more time in the guts as per the weekend and Dow looks like a find. Hopefully Sonsie gets to this level (and quickly) but I hold out virtually zero hope for RCD at current.

Yes, but 4-weeks ago Dow was still largely an unknown, Sonsie hadn’t played and Graham was injured. So our future midfield looked like Shai Bolton and then daylight….. and Bolton was still perhaps more a fwd/mid than mid/fwd.

Bolton having 17 x CBA’s was also very encouraging on the weekend.

You only need 2-3 elite midfielders with a bunch of foot soldiers around them.




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[Drunken Wookie]

He seems to break someone's face every game.

He is pretty strong and cracks in imho

Thats the other knock on him I reckon, he goes hard at the ball when its dished up right in front of him but he doesn't hunt the ball. You see him too often on the outside when he should be smashing in and trying to win contested ball.

 

[Muddiemoose]

Thats the other knock on him I reckon, he goes hard at the ball when its dished up right in front of him but he doesn't hunt the ball. You see him too often on the outside when he should be smashing in and trying to win contested ball.

From this weeks vfl report

“
Riley Collier-Dawkins (13 disposals, four inside-50s, one goal)

"Riley's basing his game on defence at the moment which is a great starting point. He kicked a beautiful goal spinning forward and had a reasonable game on the day."”

Almost seems like he has been instructed not to crack in
No idea why but hopefully at some point he is given a licence to hunt the ball again

 

[Grrr]

From this weeks vfl report

“
Riley Collier-Dawkins (13 disposals, four inside-50s, one goal)

"Riley's basing his game on defence at the moment which is a great starting point. He kicked a beautiful goal spinning forward and had a reasonable game on the day."”

Almost seems like he has been instructed not to crack in
No idea why but hopefully at some point he is given a licence to hunt the ball again

He played most of the first half at half forward for only 4 possessions at half time. Last half in the midfield 9 possessions whilst not great was good in that he got a bit more lose ball and showed a bit of dash for the first time in some weeks where he was mainly coalface. Experimenting with him a bit which will be good for his game long term.

 

[Noidnadroj]

He played most of the first half at half forward for only 4 possessions at half time. Last half in the midfield 9 possessions whilst not great was good in that he got a bit more lose ball and showed a bit of dash for the first time in some weeks where he was mainly coalface. Experimenting with him a bit which will be good for his game long term.

Regardless of the position he plays I am very concerned with RCD now. Into his 4th? season he should be absolutely dominating any position he plays at VFL level. Paddy Dow is getting 30+ and kicking goals every week at VFL level. When Anthony Miles was in the VFL he was dominating. Townsend won a VFL B&F and he was not really AFL standard. Even Sonsie in just his second game as a 19yo got 34 and was BOG.



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[energyquant]

Regardless of the position he plays I am very concerned with RCD now. Into his 4th? season he should be absolutely dominating any position he plays at VFL level. Paddy Dow is getting 30+ and kicking goals every week at VFL level. When Anthony Miles was in the VFL he was dominating. Townsend won a VFL B&F and he was not really AFL standard. Even Sonsie in just his second game as a 19yo got 34 and was BOG.



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I think what clubs look for today in their development list is different to even 10 years ago. Whereas a guy like Anthony Miles could get a kick, he was a fairly limited "see ball, get ball" mid. If you want one of those, go and pluck a guy like Anthony Dawson from the VFL. He'll go head to head with Tom Mitchell and then you'll understand why one wins a Brownlow medal and the other can't get on a list.

There are 18 players on the field at any given time and a guy needs to be able to play to his strengths and have the game plan cover his weaknesses. That's how flags are won. There is no point drafting (particularly in the first two rounds) for "solid" players. Every club is looking for X-factor. We'll continue to develop a player like RCD until we're certain we've seen his ceiling. If he doesn't have a role at AFL level then he'll be shown the door.

I still have hope, but will try and watch a lot more VFL footy this year so I can form my own opinion.

 

[Grrr]

Regardless of the position he plays I am very concerned with RCD now. Into his 4th? season he should be absolutely dominating any position he plays at VFL level. Paddy Dow is getting 30+ and kicking goals every week at VFL level. When Anthony Miles was in the VFL he was dominating. Townsend won a VFL B&F and he was not really AFL standard. Even Sonsie in just his second game as a 19yo got 34 and was BOG.



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According to VFL Stats, Dow has 5 games, one game of 31, 23, 22, 15, 14. Last season RCD had 5 games, 31, 27, 24, 24 and 16.
Yes he should be getting better numbers this year, but he has been playing a very hard contested tackling inside game apart from the first half this week. Let's just wait until he starts to get a bit better balance between his natural game which is to break away and his inside game which he needed to work on.

They have played 3 games. Sonsie by the way has games of 19, 34 and 17. He was very good in the wet, which he is known for.
Miles was a natural ball winner but very average at everything else and Townsend is too strong and good for the VFL, but not fast enough for the AFL. Plenty of players like the last two. RCD has the tools to go to the next level and I don't doubt when he does get his turn he will be a far better player than last year.

 

[Grrr]

I think what clubs look for today in their development list is different to even 10 years ago. Whereas a guy like Anthony Miles could get a kick, he was a fairly limited "see ball, get ball" mid. If you want one of those, go and pluck a guy like Anthony Dawson from the VFL. He'll go head to head with Tom Mitchell and then you'll understand why one wins a Brownlow medal and the other can't get on a list.

There are 18 players on the field at any given time and a guy needs to be able to play to his strengths and have the game plan cover his weaknesses. That's how flags are won. There is no point drafting (particularly in the first two rounds) for "solid" players. Every club is looking for X-factor. We'll continue to develop a player like RCD until we're certain we've seen his ceiling. If he doesn't have a role at AFL level then he'll be shown the door.

I still have hope, but will try and watch a lot more VFL footy this year so I can form my own opinion.

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["The Roar Is Back"]

Let’s not forget the club trialed the Martin @ halfback as part of his development .

 

[DickieKnee]

Let’s not forget the club trialed the Martin @ halfback as part of his development .

Martin played round 1 after being drafted and looked like an AFL player from day one. He always spent spells in midfield but at the start his only weakness was his tank. Took a couple of seasons to build his tank to play more midfield.