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[footy4ever]

For me Burton is the sole reason for our malaise in 2018/19. Our list profile had us building from 2015 onwards with being contenders in 2017 to 2019. The player departures this year was a natural part of this cycle.

Burton cost us any chance we had of playing in/winning the 2018 GF. Simplistic but true. IIRC at one stage we had 8 of our 2017 first 10 B&F out injured with soft tissue issues, hamstrings in particular, and in total, 12...I think, (could have been 14) first-choice players injured and not playing.

 

[Elite Crow]

Hey .. how about you just go back and re-read the post I quoted.

If you want to to argue points, it would be nice if people included disclaimers and/or rules directly relating to their posts

I just did and?

 

[Big Gazoongas]

An external review (though it sounds like some were dragged along kicking and screaming), which resulted in Burton and Camporeale being moved on wouldn't be a bad place to start

The club had imploded because those charged with managing the club competently in order to have it contend for the major prize where asleep at the wheel.
And faced with all the evidence they still defended their incompetence.

Only in the face of supporter backlash and criticism did they act. We would not have had an external review without this.

Dud Chapman even mentioned internal reviews are done yearly (and even questioned the need for an external review)..............for what outcome????.... defending their position for self preservation over the club.

So No, under these circumstances it's not the place to start.

I'm prepared to give Fagan the slightest benefit......but not Chapman or Roo.....not now not ever. Those two need to go and the sooner the better.

 

[CrowinNT]

Burton cost us any chance we had of playing in/winning the 2018 GF. Simplistic but true. IIRC at one stage we had 8 of our 2017 first 10 B&F out injured with soft tissue issues, hamstrings in particular, and in total, 12...I think, (could have been 14) first-choice players injured and not playing.

Article at the time is pretty damming when you look back. Including Burton’s response
I had almost forgotten Gibson copped the curse too.

Crows hanging on, but for how long?

ANALYSIS: Adelaide's injury epidemic suggests a tipping point looms large

www.afl.com.au

 

[footy4ever]

Article at the time is pretty damming when you look back. Including Burton’s response
I had almost forgotten Gibson copped the curse too.

Crows hanging on, but for how long?

ANALYSIS: Adelaide's injury epidemic suggests a tipping point looms large

www.afl.com.au

Sweet baby Jesus it's probably worse than I remembered.

 

[SaltPeter]

"​

I just did and?

The club had imploded because those charged with managing the club competently in order to have it contend for the major prize where asleep at the wheel.
And faced with all the evidence they still defended their incompetence.

Only in the face of supporter backlash and criticism did they act. We would not have had an external review without this.

Dud Chapman even mentioned internal reviews are done yearly (and even questioned the need for an external review)..............for what outcome????.... defending their position for self preservation over the club.

So No, under these circumstances it's not the place to start.

I'm prepared to give Fagan the slightest benefit......but not Chapman or Roo.....not now not ever. Those two need to go and the sooner the better.

Clearly this is what I was quoting:

"What you haven't mentioned is what on earth has the club done in recent history to deserve any benefit of the doubt."​

​

I brought up that the club had performed an external review. Seems to me that's recent history, regardless of the motives that you 2 are using and trying to wriggle out of.

 

[Elite Crow]

"​

Clearly this is what I was quoting:

"What you haven't mentioned is what on earth has the club done in recent history to deserve any benefit of the doubt."​

​

I brought up that the club had performed an external review. Seems to me that's recent history, regardless of the motives that you 2 are using and trying to wriggle out of.

You just can’t ignore the motives. It’s like someone committing a crime and then faced with a lighter sentence fessing up. How much credit do you give?

And if you really wanted to give them some credit for it, why not call it during the season so you can do it properly? You suggested Fagan said he wanted it mid year, where is the back up for that?

 

[Geoffa32]

In 2017 didn't we have the best in business injury report, I thought we only used 31 players the entire year, surely if Burton gets bagged he deserves credit for that 2017 year and the injuries in that year also

From memory we had a lot of guys playing quite sore.

I suspect his poor management of conditioning was not just injury related, it overall conditiong and rehab after training/playing sessions.


He gets no credit for anything.



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[Geoffa32]

Article at the time is pretty damming when you look back. Including Burton’s response
I had almost forgotten Gibson copped the curse too.

Crows hanging on, but for how long?

ANALYSIS: Adelaide's injury epidemic suggests a tipping point looms large

www.afl.com.au

Gibson gave.an interview.on AA and his answer around how our guys rehab after training and playing sessions was a bit of an eye opener. You could tell he knew our guys did not know what they were doing or how to use Kangatech.



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[marty36]

From memory we had a lot of guys playing quite sore.

I suspect his poor management of conditioning was not just injury related, it overall conditiong and rehab after training/playing sessions.


He gets no credit for anything.



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That's just bias showing, we had a fantastic year re injury which is one of the reasons we made the GF

Fair is Fair

He deserves to be critisized for his mistakes but credit for his acheivements

Otherwise you are just looking at the negatives all the time, when there were positives, and it makes your opinion totally biased and because of that irelevant

 

[cleanhands]

That's just bias showing, we had a fantastic year re injury which is one of the reasons we made the GF

Fair is Fair

He deserves to be critisized for his mistakes but credit for his acheivements

Otherwise you are just looking at the negatives all the time, when there were positives, and it makes your opinion totally biased and because of that irelevant

Achievements,,,, can you name them

 

[MRB37]

That's just bias showing, we had a fantastic year re injury which is one of the reasons we made the GF

Fair is Fair

He deserves to be critisized for his mistakes but credit for his acheivements

Otherwise you are just looking at the negatives all the time, when there were positives, and it makes your opinion totally biased and because of that irelevant

We had a good year in which we avoided a lot of collision/impact type injuries, we still had plenty of guys doing hammies, which is the Burton speciality. 2018 the hammies ramped up even worse and we then copped the injuries on top of that (like Sloane's foot, Gov's ankle etc).

 

[marty36]

Achievements,,,, can you name them

Anyone involved in 2017 especially those responsible for the fact we used 31 players, due to a good injury plan and made the GF achieved more than the other 16 teams in the comp

I even need to congratulate Fagan but how Burton did his job after that was pathetic and under the watchful eye of his employer Fagan so both need to be critical of

 

[marty36]

We had a good year in which we avoided a lot of collision/impact type injuries, we still had plenty of guys doing hammies, which is the Burton speciality. 2018 the hammies ramped up even worse and we then copped the injuries on top of that (like Sloane's foot, Gov's ankle etc).

We were best in the comp, 31 players used major reason we played in a GF to suggest otherwise is pathetic

 

[Sanders]

Then Clarkson wouldn't stand a chance of a job at the AFC with his people skills now would he

rivetting as always

 

[cleanhands]

That's just bias showing, we had a fantastic year re injury which is one of the reasons we made the GF

Fair is Fair

He deserves to be critisized for his mistakes but credit for his acheivements

Otherwise you are just looking at the negatives all the time, when there were positives, and it makes your opinion totally biased and because of that irelevant

A bit like you and Fagan I suppose

 

[cleanhands]

Anyone involved in 2017 especially those responsible for the fact we used 31 players, due to a good injury plan and made the GF achieved more than the other 16 teams in the comp

I even need to congratulate Fagan but how Burton did his job after that was pathetic and under the watchful eye of his employer Fagan so both need to be critical of

Is that it

 

[GameofSloanes]

Burton cost us any chance we had of playing in/winning the 2018 GF. Simplistic but true. IIRC at one stage we had 8 of our 2017 first 10 B&F out injured with soft tissue issues, hamstrings in particular, and in total, 12...I think, (could have been 14) first-choice players injured and not playing.

I don't accept this. Great teams find a way. Richmond had something similar happen to them this year and won the flag

 

[flashcrow]

 

[ad victoriam]

So to summarise, backed the club in recruiting Burton from Brisbane despite his poor record there. Despite the concerns that this was another boys club appointment.

On to footy ops manager, backed the club in and gave them the benefit of the doubt because to fill this highly crucial role we accepted an internal last man standing, once again ignoring the concerns about another boys club appointment or searching for the best external appointment.

See where I’m going with this? Your go to position is back the club in, this leads you to go into protect mode.

You’ve then got the hide to have a go at posters having concerns about Harper being appointed, the same posters who had concerns about Burtons recruitment and promotion.

WOW you read a comment and seem to take in a lot,
Firstly I supported a newly created role not seen in the AFL previous, not the person. I was more interested in the restructuring than the person, and yes in Hindsight that change did not work and we have slowly gone back to the traditional way, with Saunders and Haas.
As for his later promotion, I did not want him and yes believe he was Last man standing, But I was also willing to back there a decision and giving them time to work it. I personally gave them 1 season It did not work he was a micromanager in a role than needed a people manager. He did not get along with Pyke, a Key part of his Job.
But again the Problems at the Club started before that. and people like you are so tied up in the Burton factor that you missed what we should have been attacking. You blame Burton for the thing he did rightly so but you also Attack him for what he did not do. Why is it in all the blame game several players did not get mentioned. Tell me.
He a tibbit you and most missed. Why did a Player control over some, force a player Partner to press for a change of states? taking the player with them. And that was before the Camp.

As for Harper, may concerns were over people incorrect information. about Harper. I mention he did not want the job, and would not get the Job,

 

[cleanhands]

WOW you read a comment and seem to take in a lot,
Firstly I supported a newly created role not seen in the AFL previous, not the person. I was more interested in the restructuring than the person, and yes in Hindsight that change did not work and we have slowly gone back to the traditional way, with Saunders and Haas.
As for his later promotion, I did not want him and yes believe he was Last man standing, But I was also willing to back there a decision and giving them time to work it. I personally gave them 1 season It did not work he was a micromanager in a role than needed a people manager. He did not get along with Pyke, a Key part of his Job.
But again the Problems at the Club started before that. and people like you are so tied up in the Burton factor that you missed what we should have been attacking. You blame Burton for the thing he did rightly so but you also Attack him for what he did not do. Why is it in all the blame game several players did not get mentioned. Tell me.
He a tibbit you and most missed. Why did a Player control over some, force a player Partner to press for a change of states? taking the player with them. And that was before the Camp.

As for Harper, may concerns were over people incorrect information. about Harper. I mention he did not want the job, and would not get the Job,

Enlighten us

 

[CrowinNT]

View attachment 794792

Very Clever

 

[marty36]

Is that it

That is it, the next questions we will ask is this year, if the list fails like it did last year and the year before we will have to point the finger at the list and how it was drafted obviously

 

[cleanhands]

That is it, the next questions we will ask is this year, if the list fails like it did last year and the year before we will have to point the finger at the list and how it was drafted obviously

I hope he puts that on his cv will certainly get him his next position

 

[jackster83]

For me Burton is the sole reason for our malaise in 2018/19. Our list profile had us building from 2015 onwards with being contenders in 2017 to 2019. The player departures this year was a natural part of this cycle.

Between 2017 and 19 Burton stuffed up our injury rehab programs. This was wallpappered over in 2017 with making the GF. But hit hard in 2018, with lasting effects into 2019.

Then he allows the CM Cowboys to take the players on that ridiculous camp. It is evident trusts were broken over those few days and once that is gone in any workplace, let alone a sporting team success will struggle to be achieved.

To me the Review served its purpose in ousting him and then as we have seen employing a far more competent replacement. With a recruitment process that did not involve Roo tapping Kelly on the shoulder and asking if he wanted the job over a pint at the Alma.

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Pyke blaming the players for the GF disaster had a fair bit to do with it too. That basically gave Burton a mandate to flog the players mentally and physically.