Strategy Our Next Captain: 2020 and beyond...

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Elite Crow

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What I find hilarious is so many people with no bloody idea about any of the details of a contract beyond what the media guess (which the same people scream blue murder about being liars and scumbags every other day) ... Those people then know that someone like Rory Sloane is lying when he says he loves the club. He's actually just after the $$$

Somehow getting a decent contract makes him trash.

He should have taken a year on year deal to show his true colours?

Whatever.

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A bit melodramatic.

What would have happened if we only gave Sloane 4 years instead of 5?

Do you think we willingly did the 5th year?
 

OutofTownCrow

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A bit melodramatic.

What would have happened if we only gave Sloane 4 years instead of 5?

Do you think we willingly did the 5th year?
I'm being melodramatic ?!??!?! Cmon ELITE, there's been plenty of melodrama on this board - and a lot of it is completely understandable - but the idea that Rory Sloane has in any way gouged the AFC out of anything is a massive stretch of the hate that is swirling through every topic at the moment.

I too despise where we have been led by the incompetent rubbish running this club for a very long time, hamstringing (haha) the club with its self-serving behind-closed-doors rubbish BUT to try and drag Sloane into that group is a step too far for me.

Sloane getting 4 or 5 years should not be the straw that breaks your back on Sloane. Do you have ANY idea what the contract is? Any? Do you know what the year-on-year payments will be? Of course not.

Let's keep aggressively questioning everything the club does, but how about we don't let that morph into eating our most loyal, genuine and courageous players for "optics".
 

Elite Crow

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I'm being melodramatic ?!??!?! Cmon ELITE, there's been plenty of melodrama on this board - and a lot of it is completely understandable - but the idea that Rory Sloane has in any way gouged the AFC out of anything is a massive stretch of the hate that is swirling through every topic at the moment.

I too despise where we have been led by the incompetent rubbish running this club for a very long time, hamstringing (haha) the club with its self-serving behind-closed-doors rubbish BUT to try and drag Sloane into that group is a step too far for me.

Sloane getting 4 or 5 years should not be the straw that breaks your back on Sloane. Do you have ANY idea what the contract is? Any? Do you know what the year-on-year payments will be? Of course not.

Let's keep aggressively questioning everything the club does, but how about we don't let that morph into eating our most loyal, genuine and courageous players for "optics".
Optics? What drivel.

Of course he gouged, he held out for 5 years and got it. By the time he finishes he’ll be 33 and a half and we’ve seen what happens to older players. This is going to end badly where his last year or 2 we are going to see a real decline. Crikey we are trying to move on Betts, how is that PR exercise going? Imagine when it’s Sloanes turn.

We saw very little from Sloane this year in leadership, both on and off the field. Tex did all the heavy lifting.

I don’t hate Sloane, far from it, he’s a gun, but he’s not the Saint that should escape scrutiny just because he’s Sloane.
 

FR0GGY

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Optics? What drivel.

Of course he gouged, he held out for 5 years and got it. By the time he finishes he’ll be 33 and a half and we’ve seen what happens to older players. This is going to end badly where his last year or 2 we are going to see a real decline. Crikey we are trying to move on Betts, how is that PR exercise going? Imagine when it’s Sloanes turn.

We saw very little from Sloane this year in leadership, both on and off the field. Tex did all the heavy lifting.

I don’t hate Sloane, far from it, he’s a gun, but he’s not the Saint that should escape scrutiny just because he’s Sloane.
Wonder how much losing his little son affected him.
Big thing to go through.
 

OutofTownCrow

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Optics? What drivel.

Of course he gouged, he held out for 5 years and got it. By the time he finishes he’ll be 33 and a half and we’ve seen what happens to older players. This is going to end badly where his last year or 2 we are going to see a real decline. Crikey we are trying to move on Betts, how is that PR exercise going? Imagine when it’s Sloanes turn.

We saw very little from Sloane this year in leadership, both on and off the field. Tex did all the heavy lifting.

I don’t hate Sloane, far from it, he’s a gun, but he’s not the Saint that should escape scrutiny just because he’s Sloane.
Could not disagree more elite.

I feel like you have jumped on to Sloane very late. Another chance to get into the club ... That's what I meant by optics. You seem to want to be seen to be anti everything and anything. I'm angry too, but I'm trying to focus it on specifics - rather than just spray it over anything that moves.

You have no clue what leadership Sloane has or hasn't shown ... On or Off field. It's such a strange complaint to bring up about Rory.

As far as his contract, the whole discussion is about the fact he said he loves the club ... Which was disputed by someone in here because he signed a 5 year deal. That was where I said it was rubbish. This idea that he had gouged the club and therefore is just giving lip service to me is too far.

I think Sloane will end his career in the forward line, and I think you are wrong that his end of contract will be a nightmare.

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Elite Crow

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Could not disagree more elite.

I feel like you have jumped on to Sloane very late. Another chance to get into the club ... That's what I meant by optics. You seem to want to be seen to be anti everything and anything. I'm angry too, but I'm trying to focus it on specifics - rather than just spray it over anything that moves.

You have no clue what leadership Sloane has or hasn't shown ... On or Off field. It's such a strange complaint to bring up about Rory.

As far as his contract, the whole discussion is about the fact he said he loves the club ... Which was disputed by someone in here because he signed a 5 year deal. That was where I said it was rubbish. This idea that he had gouged the club and therefore is just giving lip service to me is too far.

I think Sloane will end his career in the forward line, and I think you are wrong that his end of contract will be a nightmare.

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I’ve mentioned my thoughts on Sloane previously so you’re wrong.

As for now, it’s been brought up again because we are discussing our future captain. Therefore it’s fair to discuss all aspects of Sloane and his attitude when he had to re-sign tells us a lot.

Answer me this one question, do you think we gave him the 5th year because we wanted to or had to?

As for his leadership this year, Tex took the majority of the off-field heat. Can’t recall Sloane fronting too many hard interviews.

He was our third best mid in a s**t midfield, so he hardly led on the field either.

Some act as if he will be a great captain and forget he was actually one this year.
 

OutofTownCrow

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I’ve mentioned my thoughts on Sloane previously so you’re wrong.
I know you don't like the long contract sending him to 33, I'm fine with it. Should this be the norm for all players? Definitely not, but some players you can take a risk on and I think Sloane isn't a bad risk. Might be a terrible decision in hindsight but that's a complete cop-out ... what did you think at the time he signed for 5?

This gives us a real chance for 2019 if we can have a healthy list.
Didn't see any vitriol flying from you at the time ... maybe you were holding back?

As for now, it’s been brought up again because we are discussing our future captain. Therefore it’s fair to discuss all aspects of Sloane and his attitude when he had to re-sign tells us a lot.
That's not what I was commenting on though. I was specifically commenting on the fact that him loving the club was not lip-service. Thats is where my inclusion in this thread began.

Answer me this one question, do you think we gave him the 5th year because we wanted to or had to?
Lol. Show me the deal and I'll tell you what I think of it. I'd want to see the details and compare that to what was offered over other contract lengths.

As for his leadership this year, Tex took the majority of the off-field heat. Can’t recall Sloane fronting too many hard interviews.
You have no idea who took what heat, who put their hand up when, who had responsibility for what. Are you trying to say that Sloane actively avoided the heat off-field?

He was our third best mid in a s**t midfield, so he hardly led on the field either.
As you have banged on about in numerous threads ... our setup was crap this year, we used most of our players really badly. I'd include Sloane in that. He's had a bad run with off-field too ... if you don't rate Sloane that is ok, but you can't have it both ways. Either you see his less than stellar year as being caused by a few factors - or you think he isn't very good anymore.

Some act as if he will be a great captain and forget he was actually one this year.
What? I think some people are saying he will be a great STAND ALONE captain next year and you are forgetting he was a CO-CAPTAIN this year.

Anyway Elite, happy to concede we are on different paths on this. Always enjoy your posting and the back and forth ... nothing wrong with a healthy bit of questioning on ANY topic. I'm happy to concede I might be abit rose-coloured when it comes to Sloane.
 

Elite Crow

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I know you don't like the long contract sending him to 33, I'm fine with it. Should this be the norm for all players? Definitely not, but some players you can take a risk on and I think Sloane isn't a bad risk. Might be a terrible decision in hindsight but that's a complete cop-out ... what did you think at the time he signed for 5?



Didn't see any vitriol flying from you at the time ... maybe you were holding back?


That's not what I was commenting on though. I was specifically commenting on the fact that him loving the club was not lip-service. Thats is where my inclusion in this thread began.


Lol. Show me the deal and I'll tell you what I think of it. I'd want to see the details and compare that to what was offered over other contract lengths.


You have no idea who took what heat, who put their hand up when, who had responsibility for what. Are you trying to say that Sloane actively avoided the heat off-field?


As you have banged on about in numerous threads ... our setup was crap this year, we used most of our players really badly. I'd include Sloane in that. He's had a bad run with off-field too ... if you don't rate Sloane that is ok, but you can't have it both ways. Either you see his less than stellar year as being caused by a few factors - or you think he isn't very good anymore.


What? I think some people are saying he will be a great STAND ALONE captain next year and you are forgetting he was a CO-CAPTAIN this year.

Anyway Elite, happy to concede we are on different paths on this. Always enjoy your posting and the back and forth ... nothing wrong with a healthy bit of questioning on ANY topic. I'm happy to concede I might be abit rose-coloured when it comes to Sloane.
Lots to respond to but that post where I said gives us a real chance for 2019 has no relevance to what I think he will do to our chances in 22&23.

We don’t need to know the terms of his deal, but we know he will be on our list at 33 and you can’t honestly think he would have taken a 5 year deal on average money. No chance, he even said at the time it was about looking after himself.

It’s pretty straight forward question you’ve continued to dodge, do you think the club wanted to give him 5 years?

Tex definitely did more media after our poor performances, that’s just what happened.

On field yeah our set ups were poor but that didn’t stop both Crouch boys being the better mids and Sloane still can’t break a tag.

I’ve also rated Sloane as a player and he’s a great guy, but he’s not this angel he’s made out to be. Facts are he held the club to ransom to get a 5 year deal. That’s not putting the club first like Tex did.

I would give it to Talia. Gets the job done week in week out, leads by example and says all the right things.
 

OutofTownCrow

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Lots to respond to but that post where I said gives us a real chance for 2019 has no relevance to what I think he will do to our chances in 22&23.
It does. In 2018 you weren't in the boat of "let's not sign up Sloane for a long deal, let him go and we can rebuild ... this deal will hurt our chances in 2022 / 2023". That's what you say now. That is hindsight not foresight.

We don’t need to know the terms of his deal, but we know he will be on our list at 33 and you can’t honestly think he would have taken a 5 year deal on average money. No chance, he even said at the time it was about looking after himself.
Of course you need to know the details.

If we offered

$800k per year over 4 years - $900k + $800k + $800k + $700k (with not much of this tied to performance)

cf...

$700k per year over 5 years - $900k + $850k + $800k + $600k + $350k (with much more of it much tied to performance)

That makes a difference.

It’s pretty straight forward question you’ve continued to dodge, do you think the club wanted to give him 5 years?
It's pretty easy to answer ... it depends on what the other options were.

Tex definitely did more media after our poor performances, that’s just what happened.
I think that's a guess. Either way are you saying that Rory actively tried to avoid these opportunities and is not a good leader? I don't believe that is the case.

On field yeah our set ups were poor but that didn’t stop both Crouch boys being the better mids and Sloane still can’t break a tag.
So no correlation between the setups and performance? The setups suited the Crouch boys much more than Sloane imo ... When the crouch boys get the tag, they aren't as effective either.

I’ve also rated Sloane as a player and he’s a great guy, but he’s not this angel he’s made out to be. Facts are he held the club to ransom to get a 5 year deal. That’s not putting the club first like Tex did.
We are going around and around on this point - why does rory looking after his contract have to be mutually exclusive from him doing the right thing by the club? What if it came out that Sloane and Tex were on exactly the same deal? Would that surprise you - or are you so certain that Rory held the club to ransom and got overs?

I would give it to Talia. Gets the job done week in week out, leads by example and says all the right things.
So you would be ok with Talia holding the club to ransom? That is exactly what I said that you sometimes take a risk with a player ... you are just choosing a different player to take the risk with SO you have no problem with what we did, just who we did it with?
 

Elite Crow

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It does. In 2018 you weren't in the boat of "let's not sign up Sloane for a long deal, let him go and we can rebuild ... this deal will hurt our chances in 2022 / 2023". That's what you say now. That is hindsight not foresight.


Of course you need to know the details.

If we offered

$800k per year over 4 years - $900k + $800k + $800k + $700k (with not much of this tied to performance)

cf...

$700k per year over 5 years - $900k + $850k + $800k + $600k + $350k (with much more of it much tied to performance)

That makes a difference.


It's pretty easy to answer ... it depends on what the other options were.


I think that's a guess. Either way are you saying that Rory actively tried to avoid these opportunities and is not a good leader? I don't believe that is the case.


So no correlation between the setups and performance? The setups suited the Crouch boys much more than Sloane imo ... When the crouch boys get the tag, they aren't as effective either.


We are going around and around on this point - why does rory looking after his contract have to be mutually exclusive from him doing the right thing by the club? What if it came out that Sloane and Tex were on exactly the same deal? Would that surprise you - or are you so certain that Rory held the club to ransom and got overs?


So you would be ok with Talia holding the club to ransom? That is exactly what I said that you sometimes take a risk with a player ... you are just choosing a different player to take the risk with SO you have no problem with what we did, just who we did it with?
What boat I was in makes no difference to whether Sloane looked after himself first at the expense of the club, that’s the discussion, not what I posted a year ago.

And what ever the terms, we are tied to a contract that takes a player out to 33 and a half. The club would not have willingly have done that, if you think that was there preferred option then I can’t help you.

So the set ups meant he had an average year and ended up being our third best mid, you seriously going with that? Nothing mentioned that he still can’t break a tag.

What is fact is Tex did more media after our bad losses, he stood up. Don’t give me the baloney that wasn’t in Sloanes control.

Tex and Sloane aren’t on the same deal and that’s the point. In 2017 Tex signed a 3 year extension which finishes at 31. Sloane in 2018 signs a 5 year deal to take him to 33.

As for your comments on Talia, What tha? Where did I suggest I’d be happy with Talia demanding a 5 year deal taking him out to 33?
 

Geoffa32

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I’ve mentioned my thoughts on Sloane previously so you’re wrong.

As for now, it’s been brought up again because we are discussing our future captain. Therefore it’s fair to discuss all aspects of Sloane and his attitude when he had to re-sign tells us a lot.

Answer me this one question, do you think we gave him the 5th year because we wanted to or had to?

As for his leadership this year, Tex took the majority of the off-field heat. Can’t recall Sloane fronting too many hard interviews.

He was our third best mid in a s**t midfield, so he hardly led on the field either.

Some act as if he will be a great captain and forget he was actually one this year.
I have never.seen anything in Sloane to suggest he could be a great captain.

He is a good player, borderline great. But he is a workman. Beating a tag is part mental.and part physical. Put the extra burden of being captain, a step above being in the leadership group.and I think he may struggle.



Luckily for Sloane he is mates with Kano so wont have that negative element Tex had to deal with.

I see Slaoney as an ideal Vice Captain. Which is pretty much what he was this year.

Talia should be skipper. He fronted the media post season and has a statesman quality about him. He seems to be the kind of guy people follow. As Tex is. I think their is a genuine want for success in Talia. He has spoken about it before.



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OutofTownCrow

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I have never.seen anything in Sloane to suggest he could be a great captain.

He is a good player, borderline great. But he is a workman. Beating a tag is part mental.and part physical. Put the extra burden of being captain, a step above being in the leadership group.and I think he may struggle.



Luckily for Sloane he is mates with Kano so wont have that negative element Tex had to deal with.

I see Slaoney as an ideal Vice Captain. Which is pretty much what he was this year.

Talia should be skipper. He fronted the media post season and has a statesman quality about him. He seems to be the kind of guy people follow. As Tex is. I think their is a genuine want for success in Talia. He has spoken about it before.

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I also think Talia would be a great skipper. Look back at his club champ speech. Driven by the right things.

Sloane a great VC, I'd agree with that too. Still believe his best is not on the ball.

I remember having the same debate about danger. I wanted him at full forward where his need to dominate is a positive. Look at last night, no real influence on the result despite his massive efforts at every contest.

Sloane is not being used properly in my eyes... I reckon he'd love a new coach and a new plan.



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Maggsy

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Crows need a captain that steadies the ship and get's us OUT of he media limelight, Someone that the AFL media respects and doesn't question and someone to inspire the next wave of our club.

That IS Rory Sloane. Much loved by AFC and other teams fans, the media likes him, he is professional, hardworking and lacks controversy. Right now, he is the safest option to steer us for the next 2-3 years.
 

Ramify

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Dont want Talia or Sloane.

Need a new Dawn appointment. Someone who hasnt had the fun of the game knocked out of them by playing for us for so long. Someone young, Fresh, Happy and not Jaded or Hardarse. Someone a bit closer in age and experience to the new crop of lads we hope will be there for our next tilt.

Cmon down Rory Atkins.
 

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