Our problem is...

[Mr Magic]

Having a look todat at the game it became obvious we simply lack class!!!


We were not clean.

We did not make great decisions generally particularly using the ball.

We lacked composure and appeared rushed

We lacked energy in the contest and appeared to lack options with the ball.

We appeared to accept being beaten not long after the start.Ie lacked belief as the game went on.

We need a rebuild clearly IMO and some players should not be playing at AFL level.

BTW Gus was far from being the worst today, so our Rucks is not the biggest problem ATM.

Gaff and Ebert were walking around having a field day not to mention the others so it is not about the youth.

We need more quality and energy!!!

 

[Bird Man]

Okay .

Now that u have listed that how do we fix this problem?

people a quick to list them but not answer them

 

[Mr Magic]

Okay .

Now that u have listed that how do we fix this problem?

people a quick to list them but not answer them

Get rid of 4 of the worst.

Recruit well for 6 years etc.. Something we haven't done yet. Better stiil lets go per the phantom drafts.

I remember some talking up Parker and Karnezis last year on this forum, they, seem to know what they are doing apart from Heppell!!!

Can someone tell m why we didn't pick Sam Reid in 2009??

 

[acr2751]

our problem is we are just crap

we are so far off being a good team it is not funny i cant see the light at the end of the tunnel any more

 

[tigs2010]

Get rid of 4 of the worst.

Recruit well for 6 years etc.. Something we haven't done yet. Better stiil lets go per the phantom drafts.

I remember some talking up Parker and Karnezis last year on this forum, they, seem to know what they are doing apart from Heppell!!!

Can someone tell m why we didn't pick Sam Reid in 2009??

his kicking was shit and still is. Kicked straight for one game last night.

 

[Bird Man]

Our problemo is we don't pay the umps like the other clubs do

 

[santa claws]

Okay .

Now that u have listed that how do we fix this problem?

people a quick to list them but not answer them

find a really combative competetive athletic ruckman. to go with this come the next pre season bulk up vickery and get some core strength into him and give him significantly more ruck time.

find a 195cm plus big bodied key defender thats capable of doing a job on the big monster forwards and resting ruckmen.

find another genuine marking key forwrd

find a couple of really quick classy medium/small forwards. hope fully blokes who in time can be a part of midfield rotations.

get some experienced players who are actually up to afl standard just to help with the abundance of kids we have and will get. lets get out of the situation where we are forced to give kids games when they are likely not ready because there is no one else.

piss off the myriad of too small poorly skilled smalls and replace them with bigger bodies and better skills.

with this work on 1 percenters, in particular blocks shepherds and tackling improve this area by just 10 % and that should not be hard as these things are non existant atm and we will improve.

learn from what the succesful sides are doing and find a way to do it better.

these simple things would see dramatic improvement.

i have to say the greatest concern i have is the body type if you like of our players. i have a simple mantra take the bigger body every time bigger stronger faster makes you competetive get enough of this type with good skills and smarts and the world is your oyster.

 

[Mr Magic]

his kicking was shit and still is. Kicked straight for one game last night.

I would have him in a heartbeat. Stick him at CHB if his kicking is so bad

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Okay .

Now that u have listed that how do we fix this problem?

people a quick to list them but not answer them

Pick the best available in the draft , it's working for North suprise surprise ,and stop picking players who are high risk at least until we have developed a strong core group !

 

[mitch richmond]

Our problem is.......
we are paying 92.5% of the salary cap as we've had no money for 30 years! Thankfully this will be rectified by the time free agency comes in at the end of 2012!

 

[mitch richmond]

Get rid of 4 of the worst.

Recruit well for 6 years etc.. Something we haven't done yet. Better stiil lets go per the phantom drafts.

I remember some talking up Parker and Karnezis last year on this forum, they, seem to know what they are doing apart from Heppell!!!

Can someone tell m why we didn't pick Sam Reid in 2009??[/quote]

The short answer is because the 2009 draft was held in 2009 and not after Round 20 in 2011.
The long answer seeing as you are not fully understanding of the drafting process is that it is not an exact science. Some players excel at different levels and some clubs draft for current needs and some for future needs. They also have to throw in other factors like how much development they may have in them, skills, attitudes. Gee, I thought you'd know all this Mr Magic. Anyhow, someone like Cleve Hughes was CHF in the 2005 NAB All Australian U/18 Team but Josh Kennedy has been the better player through a variety of reasons, maybe he has been developed better by the clubs he's been at, injury, attitude, could be anything. So it's a lottery. If Sam Reid came to Richmond you'd probably be on here today asking why we didn't take David Astbury (who'd be playing well for the Swans as it's always easier in a better team).

If you can't believe we took Dustin Martin, Ben Griffiths and David Astbury ahead of Sam Reid, you might like to sit down before reading this.
Melbourne took Luke Molan (0 games) and Hawthorn taking Daniel Elstone (0 games) in the 2001 draft ahead of James Kelly, Steve Johnson, Campbell Brown, Sam Mitchell, Dane Swan, Adam Schneider, Quinten Lynch, Aaron Sandilands, Nathan Bock, Matthew Boyd and Ben Rutten.

 

[Slattery_20]

Coming from very long range:
With the right coaching, right level of effort, solid committment, there's a massive scope for (almost) immediate improvement in most lists.
That is more the worry for you guys, the players who you just know will retreat into their shells and stop working. Don't know if Campbell et al are the right characters to train kids not to do that and keep them coming up when the side's not going well.

There aren't many complete duds who ever make it into the system so it's more a matter of making your average players do their thing each week and making that work better in your system.

 

[Mr Magic]

Pick the best available in the draft , it's working for North suprise surprise ,and stop picking players who are high risk at least until we have developed a strong core group !

Exactly, North are going well enough, not because they are rich, but because they are not using both hands at the ND!!!

What did I say before regarding Conca, trading down and get Harper as well, worse case scenario Atley, hopefully the clouds are opening for some

 

[mitch richmond]

Coming from very long range:
With the right coaching, right level of effort, solid committment, there's a massive scope for (almost) immediate improvement in most lists.
That is more the worry for you guys, the players who you just know will retreat into their shells and stop working. Don't know if Campbell et al are the right characters to train kids not to do that and keep them coming up when the side's not going well.

There aren't many complete duds who ever make it into the system so it's more a matter of making your average players do their thing each week and making that work better in your system.

Have you got some goss on Wayne Campbell or something because his playing career, Rodney Eade's recommendation from his time at the Western Bulldogs and Benny and Hardwicks wraps on him would say otherwise.

 

[Mr Magic]

Get rid of 4 of the worst.

Recruit well for 6 years etc.. Something we haven't done yet. Better stiil lets go per the phantom drafts.

I remember some talking up Parker and Karnezis last year on this forum, they, seem to know what they are doing apart from Heppell!!!

Can someone tell m why we didn't pick Sam Reid in 2009??[/quote]

The short answer is because the 2009 draft was held in 2009 and not after Round 20 in 2011.
The long answer seeing as you are not fully understanding of the drafting process is that it is not an exact science. Some players excel at different levels and some clubs draft for current needs and some for future needs. They also have to throw in other factors like how much development they may have in them, skills, attitudes. Gee, I thought you'd know all this Mr Magic. Anyhow, someone like Cleve Hughes was CHF in the 2005 NAB All Australian U/18 Team but Josh Kennedy has been the better player through a variety of reasons, maybe he has been developed better by the clubs he's been at, injury, attitude, could be anything. So it's a lottery. If Sam Reid came to Richmond you'd probably be on here today asking why we didn't take David Astbury (who'd be playing well for the Swans as it's always easier in a better team).

If you can't believe we took Dustin Martin, Ben Griffiths and David Astbury ahead of Sam Reid, you might like to sit down before reading this.
Melbourne took Luke Molan (0 games) and Hawthorn taking Daniel Elstone (0 games) in the 2001 draft ahead of James Kelly, Steve Johnson, Campbell Brown, Sam Mitchell, Dane Swan, Adam Schneider, Quinten Lynch, Aaron Sandilands, Nathan Bock, Matthew Boyd and Ben Rutten.

No the reason I query it is this::

Blind Freddy can see athletically he is superior and has Ben the brother in a Brown Nathan/Mitchell secenario. In 2009 we were targeting bigs.

Roos said the recruiting of Swans surprised he lasted till 38.(i know they all say that) So why did he last that long.

Lets look at the Phantom drafts as I get the feel they have a better track record. Chris 25 has Tigers picking up Reid at 35 and Astbury 47 Lions.

Burgan had reid at 32, Astbury at 71. He also had Grimes at 39, and thank f..Tigers when after him after the draft proper(i admit i sent emails to them to do so), and he also had barlow to be picked.


VERDICT lets get Burgan on our recruiting team

I rate Astbury but Reid has a better leap hands and has elite qualities so WTF??

Official bigfooty phantom had Reid before 40 and Astbury 60

 

[mitch richmond]

No the reason I query it is this::

Blind Freddy can see athletically he is superior and has Ben the brother in a Brown Nathan/Mitchell secenario. In 2009 we were targeting bigs.

Roos said the recruiting of Swans surprised he lasted till 38.(i know they all say that) So why did he last that long.

Lets look at the Phantom drafts as I get the feel they have a better track record. Chris 25 has Tigers picking up Reid at 35 and Astbury 47 Lions.

Burgan had reid at 32, Astbury at 71. He also had Grimes at 39, and thank f..Tigers when after him after the draft proper(i admit i sent emails to them to do so), and he also had barlow to be picked.


VERDICT lets get Burgan on our recruiting team

I rate Astbury but Reid has a better leap hands and has elite qualities so WTF??

Was going to answer all your points about mock drafts, and a brother playing already (on this theory one of Steel Sidebottoms four brothers would be drafted) and Roos tossing out the old draft favourite of the Swans being surprised he lasted till 38 blah blah blah.... but I'll just answer the last question of WTF??
37 players were taken ahead of him, (6 clubs overlooked Sam Reid at least 3 times) 17 players were traded involving 42 draft picks. (Jay Nash, Brock McLean, Andrew Raines, Mark Williams, Brendan Fevola to name a few) so I find it pretty funny on August 7 2011 you think Richmond drafting Sam Reid in Round 3 at pick 38 in the 2009 draft a no-brainer!
BTW 19 games doesn't make a career, Griffiths, Astbury or Ben Stratton (pick 46) might turn out the better player.

 

[Mr Magic]

Was going to answer all your points about mock drafts, and a brother playing already (on this theory one of Steel Sidebottoms four brothers would be drafted) and Roos tossing out the old draft favourite of the Swans being surprised he lasted till 38 blah blah blah.... but I'll just answer the last question of WTF??
37 players were taken ahead of him, (6 clubs overlooked Sam Reid at least 3 times) 17 players were traded involving 42 draft picks. (Jay Nash, Brock McLean, Andrew Raines, Mark Williams, Brendan Fevola to name a few) so I find it pretty funny on August 7 2011 you think Richmond drafting Sam Reid in Round 3 at pick 38 in the 2009 draft a no-brainer!
BTW 19 games doesn't make a career, Griffiths, Astbury or Ben Stratton (pick 46) might turn out the better player.

I didn't say pick him just because he has a brother in AFL, just it is a factor of note particularly for the big fellas, Browns, Cornes,Clokes, Danihers etc..

I was looking at S Reid when he first was on the screen for Swans actually if you are interested in knowing.

You seem to have an answer for everything, some people may think your a BS artist

By the way, don't put words in my mouth with your propaganda!! I said why was he not picked?? and most rated him higher than others in 2009, and he looks the goods now, I didn't say he was a no-brainer!!!

If you are asking whether at the moment I would have him over Trengrove, Hell Yeah!!!!!

 

[Richo is God]

Our problem is kick outs. We need to stop kicking it long to gus (who will always lose the contest) and kick it to the opposite side of the ground he is at. Every kickout yesterday went within 5m of Nic Nat. Stop kicking it to the opposition ruckman!!

 

[mitch richmond]

I didn't say pick him just because he has a brother in AFL, just it is a factor of note particularly for the big fellas, Browns, Cornes,Clokes, Danihers etc..

I was looking at S Reid when he first was on the screen for Swans actually if you are interested in knowing.

You seem to have an answer for everything, some people may think your a BS artist

By the way, don't put words in my mouth with your propaganda!! I said why was he not picked?? and most rated him higher than others in 2009, and he looks the goods now, I didn't say he was a no-brainer!!!

If you are asking whether at the moment I would have him over Trengrove, Hell Yeah!!!!!

You're final question of WTF?? suggests you are down right shocked we didn't draft Sam Reid with that 3rd round pick. (Same as a no-brainer!!!!)

I reckon I've answered your question well. I threw in some facts and the bleeding obvious and get an odd accusation of being a BS artist. Can never be bothered resorting to name calling on Bigfooty, go to your local primary school or Bay 13 if you want this. Enjoy the rest of your day bewildered as to why we didn't draft a particular player who went in Round 3, pick 38 of the 2009 draft.

 

[Mr Magic]

You're final question of WTF?? suggests you are down right shocked we didn't draft Sam Reid with that 3rd round pick. (Same as a no-brainer!!!!)

I reckon I've answered your question well. I threw in some facts and the bleeding obvious and get an odd accusation of being a BS artist. Can never be bothered resorting to name calling on Bigfooty, go to your local primary school or Bay 13 if you want this. Enjoy the rest of your day bewildered as to why we didn't draft a particular player who went in Round 3, pick 38 of the 2009 draft.

WTF doesn't sound like anything!!!!!


WTF is What the f... as in What the f... is going on as in Bling V Franklin, Reid, Heppell etc... , etc.... ie. in other words what is the explanation?????

I should know what the intention is , I typed it, you cannot seem to ask me if in doubt??? Why go on the defensive and assume????

I think you haven't answered the question at all. Why was Reid not picked if we were going after bigs and most picked rated him higher than others?? All you say is kicking but if that is they case why is Mcguane on the list etc...

If he wasn't a good enough kick, who made that decision, why wasn't marking and contestability rated higher etc.... Blind Freddy can see he is better than Mcguane!!!

Point being Astbury might make it it, he might not either due to contestability in the marking area of his game which is Reids strong suit from the vision!!!

You clearly must be in denial, as you seem go off on tangents talking about Steel Sidebottom??? You are in denial possibly because you say Reids kicking is shit but you cannot see his positives. Not once is there an admission maybe someone possibly could have got it wrong this time. Why not?? Is there an ego problem??? Talk about tunnel vision!!!! Hopefully, you are not part of recruiting because I fear we mightn't be seeing the woods for the trees and if we were we wouldn't know what we don't know!!!

I quote Peter Schwab , on radio or TV commenting about the Tigers recruiting saying words to the effect, they just can't get it right!! in the last 12 months. Well my question is "why can we not get it right????"

Santa Claws on this forum nailed it on the head last year when he said FJ will have his fate sown up on the Conca selection. Fair enough to as live by the sword , die by the sword.

All I am saying is it is not looking good for RFC recruiting ATM and hasn't been for quite some time!!!

 

[santa claws]

No the reason I query it is this::

Blind Freddy can see athletically he is superior and has Ben the brother in a Brown Nathan/Mitchell secenario. In 2009 we were targeting bigs.

Roos said the recruiting of Swans surprised he lasted till 38.(i know they all say that) So why did he last that long.

Lets look at the Phantom drafts as I get the feel they have a better track record. Chris 25 has Tigers picking up Reid at 35 and Astbury 47 Lions.

Burgan had reid at 32, Astbury at 71. He also had Grimes at 39, and thank f..Tigers when after him after the draft proper(i admit i sent emails to them to do so), and he also had barlow to be picked.


VERDICT lets get Burgan on our recruiting team

I rate Astbury but Reid has a better leap hands and has elite qualities so WTF??

Official bigfooty phantom had Reid before 40 and Astbury 60

dont often like to pull my own chain but theres a bad taste left in my mouth with the events that lead up to and after the 09 draft.

my draft went
3 martin/morabito i still think morabito could be the pick of this draft.was happy to get martin though.

19 - bastinac, i thought him easily the best player available at that pick. i know we wanted talls and i wanted them desperately as well, but i could not overlook bastinac. of the talls available i liked carlisle and black and would have taken either in front of griffiths and said so at the time none of this went down too well with some.

35/44 in the hunt for talls i had a few targeted for these picks astbury, reid, houghton at 35 shaw,kennedy vardy and fitzpatrick at 44.

51 taylor i thought worth the risk. one i liked was trent denis lane.

67 grimes

71 hartigan

psd bradshaw if possible.

and 1st rookie chice was daw. followed by contin.
i also put up the possibility for us to trade for sam jacobs who was on carltons rookie list.

when the dust settled i was highly critical of the number of smalls we took and retained.and i was highly critical of the risk we took with both 19 and 51.

in this draft period we took nason webberley hicks roberts farmer cousins and promoted nahas. all these smalls at a time when we were screaming for talls.
the other big debate for me in 09 was ensuring we attained a ps pick yep the tank debate raged but bloody hell give me picks 18 and 19 over one lousy win anyday.

 

[Bojangles17]

we're 5 or more decent players shy of being a real decent unit...2 more quality Mids of Martins ilk....a mid size forward like Lecras and a key back like Glass and a ruck of Nicnats ability and we would be right up there