Opinion Our ruck stocks

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eth-dog said:
Yeah. However I'd rather:

Leuenberger 1st ruck, Bellchambers 2nd, Callum Sinclair/Billy Longer etc 3rd and an explosive inside mid ala Martin

to

Grundy 1st ruck, Leuey 2nd, T-Bell 3rd and adding someone like Harley Balic.
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I hope we don't go back to playing two rucks.

The thing I've enjoyed watching so far is our ability to spread from stoppages.

If we add another ruck then who do we drop?

If we drop a foot soldier for a ruck then I think we will return to the snail pace team again and yeah, pick up a few more clearances but get calved up in open play.

I think McKernan will bounce back this week.


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Luenberger is a good stop gap as he's got a good tank and has the length to curb the influence of most ruckman. That being said I'd love to grab an upgrade who can take a contested mark
 

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eth-dog said:
Bellchambers is a good player when he's fit and it finally seems as though he is, I don't buy the bullshit that he's too slow to play as a second ruck. David Hale, Kurt Tippett and Scott Lycett are examples of players who have successfully played as a second ruck/key forward in recent years that are slow, not to mention guys like Casboult, Griffen, Wright, Vickery, Bruce and Boyd who are either not good forwards or not good rucks that are also slow.
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Drawing a comparison between the athleticism of Bellchambers and Lycett is, with respect, the worst comparison in the history of this site. Lycett is gas and probably the quickest ruck in the AFL.

Bellchambers might be effective but let's not compare him to Wright, Casboult or Bruce either. You're being cute mentioning Tippet but it's probably fair enough.
 
BrunoV said:
Drawing a comparison between the athleticism of Bellchambers and Lycett is, with respect, the worst comparison in the history of this site. Lycett is gas and probably the quickest ruck in the AFL.

Bellchambers might be effective but let's not compare him to Wright, Casboult or Bruce either. You're being cute mentioning Tippet but it's probably fair enough.
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Nah Tippett is being super generous to TBC. Tippet was one of the best rucks in the league in 2016.
 
BrunoV said:
Drawing a comparison between the athleticism of Bellchambers and Lycett is, with respect, the worst comparison in the history of this site. Lycett is gas and probably the quickest ruck in the AFL.

Bellchambers might be effective but let's not compare him to Wright, Casboult or Bruce either. You're being cute mentioning Tippet but it's probably fair enough.
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Uh, Lycett is slow. There are plenty of quicker rucks in the AFL. Nic Nat, Ryder, Goldstein, Martin, Blicavs, Smith, Nicholls off the top of my head,

Wright and Bruce are better than him but he is a far better player than Casboult. And you completely missed the point.
Ambrosia said:
Nah Tippett is being super generous to TBC. Tippet was one of the best rucks in the league in 2016.
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That was exactly my point. He was successful and he is slow.
 
eth-dog said:
Uh, Lycett is slow. There are plenty of quicker rucks in the AFL. Nic Nat, Ryder, Goldstein, Martin, Blicavs, Smith, Nicholls off the top of my head,

Wright and Bruce are better than him but he is a far better player than Casboult. And you completely missed the point.

That was exactly my point. He was successful and he is slow.
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He's far more athletic than TBC and he puts far more effort at following up his ruck work at stoppages.
 

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Ambrosia said:
He's far more athletic than TBC and he puts far more effort at following up his ruck work at stoppages.
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He's slow. The point wasn't that T-Bell is as good as him (far from it) but you can be successful as a ruck/forward even if you're slow like T-Bell is.
 
eth-dog said:
He's slow. The point wasn't that T-Bell is as good as him (far from it) but you can be successful as a ruck/forward even if you're slow like T-Bell is.
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No, you're supporting the argument about slow ruckmen by citing examples of players who have no business being in the conversation or players who fit the mould and who are ineffective.

If Lycett is not the quickest, he's is comfortably in the top handful of quickest players in the game who are capable of being first choice ruckmen (which Blicavs isn't as was highlighted by Preuss' dominance in the hit outs against him and Stanley who is the quickest of the "ruckmen").

Next cabs off the rank were Casboult who has elite endurance for his size and really good mobility (remember this is not about the quality of the player or you would not have cited Casboult), Bruce who is a key forward who has kicked 88 goals in the last two years (in a side in which Membrey kicked 44 himself last year) and Tom Boyd probably did as much as any single player to contribute to the preliminary final and grand final victories as a mobile forward/second ruck.

Wright is one of the brightest key forward prospects in the game, Griffen is a member of the least effective forward line in the game and I am surprised that anyone is citing Vickery as being an example of how anything can work (given the bucketing he cops).
 
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BrunoV said:
I'd prefer to see Stewart and Leuenberger against Carlton but it would be extraordinarily harsh to drop McKernan. He deserves a decent run at playing as a third forward/back up ruck.
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I think Mckernan's best chance of holding his position is if TBC can overtake Leuenberger as the number one ruckman as he is more likely to split the ruck 60-40/70-30 compared to Leuenberger who prefers to ruck 80-90%.
 
Yeah I think the importance of having an elite ruck in your team to be successful is very debatable. Going over previous successful teams, Dogs, Hawks, Geel, Syd, Freo the only elite rucks out of these sides would be Ottens & Sandilands, Mumford at Swans, maybe Tippett and Hale (more fwd/ruck). Not sure if I've forgotten names and some might argue others deserve to be considered elite but from my perspective, we would be better off targeting an elite key fwd or elite mid before we ever consider getting a better ruck than what we already have.
 
bjisgod9 said:
Yeah I think the importance of having an elite ruck in your team to be successful is very debatable. Going over previous successful teams, Dogs, Hawks, Geel, Syd, Freo the only elite rucks out of these sides would be Ottens & Sandilands, Mumford at Swans, maybe Tippett and Hale (more fwd/ruck). Not sure if I've forgotten names and some might argue others deserve to be considered elite but from my perspective, we would be better off targeting an elite key fwd or elite mid before we ever consider getting a better ruck than what we already have.
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That's why I think you always take the punt on someone like Draper.

There is virtually nothing to suggest that a gun ruckman is an essential part of a great side but, then, there is no doubt that having a gun ruck is an advantage (particularly if you can get one cheap).
 
Ambrosia said:
I think Mckernan's best chance of holding his position is if TBC can overtake Leuenberger as the number one ruckman as he is more likely to split the ruck 60-40/70-30 compared to Leuenberger who prefers to ruck 80-90%.
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Either way Mckernan has to actually show that he is a forward at all. Have we ever seen him mark on the lead and convert?
 
Personally I don't want early draft picks wasted on rucks. We shouldn't use first round draft picks to draft ruckmen or trade first round draft picks to trade for them. The ruck is the ultimate "role player" spot where you can get someone that is serviceable to do a job and the team is still strong. You don't need a superstar ruckman.

Someone already used an example but here is another.

Brodie Grundy and Ben Howlett

or

Shaun Mckernan and Nat Fyfe

I know what I would be picking.

Having said that I don't want us paying one player 1.4 million a year either so I don't want Fyfe!
 
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