Our Starting 22 - Round 1 2022

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Grrr

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 16, 2009
8,336
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mildura
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We had a good look at Balta as a forward/ruck and he often time looked lost on the field and had limited impact on those games. Granted it was in his first year at AFL level, but the coaches quickly worked out that playing him down back was the way to go and since he has moved back he has become much more consistent and has a bigger impact on games.

You talk about our KPF being close to retirement, but our KPD stock now consists of Tarrant Balta Miller Nyoun & Gibcus. Tarrant has probably 3 years left in the game, in that time we can continue to develop Balta as a KPD so that by time Tarrant retires he has close to 100 games under his belt and is ready to become the number 1 KPD. At the same time we can still develop the other 3 to become the number 2 KPD who will hopefully have 30 odd games under their belts as well.

Finally we've gone down the path of trying to turn forwards into defenders and vice versa plenty of times in the past and it hasn't really worked outside of Astbury who went from a forward to defender. Guys like Post Griffiths Elton Gourdis Moore & Chol were all tried in both positions to try and find the right role for them and it always saw them revert back to their original position. Mucking around with KPPs positioning rarely works, sure there are exceptions, but when you've got yourself a potentially elite player locked in you don't go changing it.
First season is a legitimate excuse. The coaches had a good look and put him where they could get games into him, which was a good idea. With all the experience in our backline that made sense, besides the key forward role is more difficult. Jack Riewoldt was dropped on numerous occasions in his first year. Roach started as a wingman.

Broad and Grimes play key position roles. Grimes took over from Rance and was AA. Tarrant might be there at 35 but that would make him the oldest key defender in the league by some way, so don't hold your breathe. With Miller showing good signs and Gibcus a likely player, our key back stocks are better than they have for some time.

Our key forward position is diabolically thin. 2 on the entire list, one 33 years old so lets hold our breathe there. Hawkins the only other that age in the league, and he showed real signs of having less impact last year, as did Jack. Jack has lost his jump, his greatest asset along with his forward smarts and is not impacting games like he did. What happens if he or Lynch does a hammy. 4 weeks of Caddy? Soldo/Nank? Ryan probably the best bet.

As I have previously said, if Balta fails to impact then swap him back. Right now he is needed far more as a forward than a back, best for the team if not necessarily for the player, although we won't know that yet until we have a look. Or Miller at CHF. Not sure he would have the impact that Balta has, but we need a proper high CHF and he has many of Balta's attributes. Not really fussed which one goes forward, just reckon Balta will be a player where ever you use him, he is so far above the players you mentioned it isn't funny.
 

boxxie2022

All Australian
Nov 28, 2021
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First season is a legitimate excuse. The coaches had a good look and put him where they could get games into him, which was a good idea. With all the experience in our backline that made sense, besides the key forward role is more difficult. Jack Riewoldt was dropped on numerous occasions in his first year. Roach started as a wingman.

Broad and Grimes play key position roles. Grimes took over from Rance and was AA. Tarrant might be there at 35 but that would make him the oldest key defender in the league by some way, so don't hold your breathe. With Miller showing good signs and Gibcus a likely player, our key back stocks are better than they have for some time.

Our key forward position is diabolically thin. 2 on the entire list, one 33 years old so lets hold our breathe there. Hawkins the only other that age in the league, and he showed real signs of having less impact last year, as did Jack. Jack has lost his jump, his greatest asset along with his forward smarts and is not impacting games like he did. What happens if he or Lynch does a hammy. 4 weeks of Caddy? Soldo/Nank? Ryan probably the best bet.

As I have previously said, if Balta fails to impact then swap him back. Right now he is needed far more as a forward than a back, best for the team if not necessarily for the player, although we won't know that yet until we have a look. Or Miller at CHF. Not sure he would have the impact that Balta has, but we need a proper high CHF and he has many of Balta's attributes. Not really fussed which one goes forward, just reckon Balta will be a player where ever you use him, he is so far above the players you mentioned it isn't funny.

Go with tried and tested bank the wins. Jack and Lynch swap seasons this year with Lynch kicking 50+ Jack playing cameo, our fwd structure works. As the wins hit the bank then try a few plan b’s. Especially around the time Jack needs a spell. Maybe give Balta a crack fwd during the preseason but I’m never keen on KPP experiments when the 4 points are vital with everyone fit.
 

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Grrr

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 16, 2009
8,336
18,171
mildura
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Go with tried and tested bank the wins. Jack and Lynch swap seasons this year with Lynch kicking 50+ Jack playing cameo, our fwd structure works. As the wins hit the bank then try a few plan b’s. Especially around the time Jack needs a spell. Maybe give Balta a crack fwd during the preseason but I’m never keen on KPP experiments when the 4 points are vital with everyone fit.
Going in with what didn't work last year? I know we had injury excuses, but last year wasn't our best year. Lynch has only kicked 32 and 35 goals in the last two seasons. What if we get an injury. 4 points up for grabs we use Ryan as our second forward? A bit more of a risk than Balta.
 

boxxie2022

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Nov 28, 2021
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Going in with what didn't work last year? I know we had injury excuses, but last year wasn't our best year. Lynch has only kicked 32 and 35 goals in the last two seasons. What if we get an injury. 4 points up for grabs we use Ryan as our second forward? A bit more of a risk than Balta.

Read the last line of what I wrote. With everyone fit
 

Grrr

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 16, 2009
8,336
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mildura
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Read the last line of what I wrote. With everyone fit
With a full strength side we don't need to play around with positions, but that hasn't happened in a few years. Our starts are getting older and even with a normal amount of injuries, we are still going to need more than two forwards going into a season.
 

All Aust

Baby Got Back
Oct 29, 2020
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Umpires say hold our beers!
And to a an extent, that's on our coaching staff. Tigers are average at playing to how the whistle is blown. Yup, sometimes we get screwed, but we also do ill discipline, often. I'll take the former- Whinge / b*tch like a mongrel in a game thread.

The frees and penalties from lack of discipline /ignorance/ smart-arse chat is on the club, it costs. From round 1, we can be better this yr.
 

juss

Brownlow Medallist
Feb 23, 2009
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With a full strength side we don't need to play around with positions, but that hasn't happened in a few years. Our starts are getting older and even with a normal amount of injuries, we are still going to need more than two forwards going into a season.
Unfortunately I don't think losing both Chol and CCJ was expected, and because of it our forward line looks thin if we get injuries.

We really need Lynch, Riewoldt, Dusty to play 20+ games each in 2022 or our forward line is in a bit of trouble. We can probably get by rotating the other smaller positions with a mix of Bolton, Edwards, Rioli (x2), Baker, Castagna, Aarts, Clarke, etc.
 

Grrr

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 16, 2009
8,336
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mildura
AFL Club
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Unfortunately I don't think losing both Chol and CCJ was expected, and because of it our forward line looks thin if we get injuries.

We really need Lynch, Riewoldt, Dusty to play 20+ games each in 2022 or our forward line is in a bit of trouble. We can probably get by rotating the other smaller positions with a mix of Bolton, Edwards, Rioli (x2), Baker, Castagna, Aarts, Clarke, etc.
I think losing Chol and RCD is a blessing in disguise because both are just makeshift forwards, we need a proper forward to emerge, hence why I'm advocating for Balta or Miller.

I also hope think RCD is doing some training as a half forward, not just to give him another position when he is not playing inside mid, but because at 193/4cm he has the height to play that lead up role. Another who looks pretty comfortable above his head is a bit of a Caddy type with speed is Cumberland.

We need to keep re-inventing and experimenting because to do otherwise will hold us back especially long term.
 

_RT_

2017 2019 2020
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First season is a legitimate excuse. The coaches had a good look and put him where they could get games into him, which was a good idea. With all the experience in our backline that made sense, besides the key forward role is more difficult. Jack Riewoldt was dropped on numerous occasions in his first year. Roach started as a wingman.

Broad and Grimes play key position roles. Grimes took over from Rance and was AA. Tarrant might be there at 35 but that would make him the oldest key defender in the league by some way, so don't hold your breathe. With Miller showing good signs and Gibcus a likely player, our key back stocks are better than they have for some time.

Our key forward position is diabolically thin. 2 on the entire list, one 33 years old so lets hold our breathe there. Hawkins the only other that age in the league, and he showed real signs of having less impact last year, as did Jack. Jack has lost his jump, his greatest asset along with his forward smarts and is not impacting games like he did. What happens if he or Lynch does a hammy. 4 weeks of Caddy? Soldo/Nank? Ryan probably the best bet.

As I have previously said, if Balta fails to impact then swap him back. Right now he is needed far more as a forward than a back, best for the team if not necessarily for the player, although we won't know that yet until we have a look. Or Miller at CHF. Not sure he would have the impact that Balta has, but we need a proper high CHF and he has many of Balta's attributes. Not really fussed which one goes forward, just reckon Balta will be a player where ever you use him, he is so far above the players you mentioned it isn't funny.
As I said earlier I'm very stubborn when it comes to Noah and I think given our lack of established genuine KPDs we need to lock him away for the next couple of years in that position and ensure than when the likes of Tarrant and Grimes are gone we have someone down there who is a proven elite KPD of which I believe Balta will be. Up forward I just don't see him being that effective on a consistent basis. Sure he'll have moments where he does something special, but I don't see him anywhere near the level of Jack or Lynch and some may say we don't need him to be that good, but if we're looking for our next generational KPF then he has to be in my opinion.

Now while I agree that our KPF depth is shallow at the moment I don't see it as diabolical. Neither Jack or Tom are finished just yet and after a good break and a solid summer both should raring to go. Having watched a bit of Ryan at VFL level I liked what I saw of him as a forward and he's debut game at AFL level was a complete stuff up from us given the conditions. If need be I believe he could be a useful stop gap when injury strikes or as I said previously we've got Nank & Soldo in the line up who would still provide the 2 KPF structure we're looking to use. At the end of this season we'll have the chance to either chase another ready made option from a rival club or we will be in a good position to pick one up in the draft given the depth of KPP talent already in the
draft pool. Even if Jack retires we'll still have Lynch for a few more years so it's not like our KPF talent is just going to disappear.
 

boxxie2022

All Australian
Nov 28, 2021
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As I said earlier I'm very stubborn when it comes to Noah and I think given our lack of established genuine KPDs we need to lock him away for the next couple of years in that position and ensure than when the likes of Tarrant and Grimes are gone we have someone down there who is a proven elite KPD of which I believe Balta will be. Up forward I just don't see him being that effective on a consistent basis. Sure he'll have moments where he does something special, but I don't see him anywhere near the level of Jack or Lynch and some may say we don't need him to be that good, but if we're looking for our next generational KPF then he has to be in my opinion.

Now while I agree that our KPF depth is shallow at the moment I don't see it as diabolical. Neither Jack or Tom are finished just yet and after a good break and a solid summer both should raring to go. Having watched a bit of Ryan at VFL level I liked what I saw of him as a forward and he's debut game at AFL level was a complete stuff up from us given the conditions. If need be I believe he could be a useful stop gap when injury strikes or as I said previously we've got Nank & Soldo in the line up who would still provide the 2 KPF structure we're looking to use. At the end of this season we'll have the chance to either chase another ready made option from a rival club or we will be in a good position to pick one up in the draft given the depth of KPP talent already in the
draft pool. Even if Jack retires we'll still have Lynch for a few more years so it's not like our KPF talent is just going to disappear.
Bingo
 

Grrr

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 16, 2009
8,336
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mildura
AFL Club
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As I said earlier I'm very stubborn when it comes to Noah and I think given our lack of established genuine KPDs we need to lock him away for the next couple of years in that position and ensure than when the likes of Tarrant and Grimes are gone we have someone down there who is a proven elite KPD of which I believe Balta will be. Up forward I just don't see him being that effective on a consistent basis. Sure he'll have moments where he does something special, but I don't see him anywhere near the level of Jack or Lynch and some may say we don't need him to be that good, but if we're looking for our next generational KPF then he has to be in my opinion.

Now while I agree that our KPF depth is shallow at the moment I don't see it as diabolical. Neither Jack or Tom are finished just yet and after a good break and a solid summer both should raring to go. Having watched a bit of Ryan at VFL level I liked what I saw of him as a forward and he's debut game at AFL level was a complete stuff up from us given the conditions. If need be I believe he could be a useful stop gap when injury strikes or as I said previously we've got Nank & Soldo in the line up who would still provide the 2 KPF structure we're looking to use. At the end of this season we'll have the chance to either chase another ready made option from a rival club or we will be in a good position to pick one up in the draft given the depth of KPP talent already in the
draft pool. Even if Jack retires we'll still have Lynch for a few more years so it's not like our KPF talent is just going to disappear.
‘You turn if you want; the lady’s not for turning.”
― Margaret Thatcher

sorry, best stubborn quote I could find.
 

juss

Brownlow Medallist
Feb 23, 2009
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As I said earlier I'm very stubborn when it comes to Noah and I think given our lack of established genuine KPDs we need to lock him away for the next couple of years in that position and ensure than when the likes of Tarrant and Grimes are gone we have someone down there who is a proven elite KPD of which I believe Balta will be. Up forward I just don't see him being that effective on a consistent basis. Sure he'll have moments where he does something special, but I don't see him anywhere near the level of Jack or Lynch and some may say we don't need him to be that good, but if we're looking for our next generational KPF then he has to be in my opinion.
Completely agree with this first part regarding Balta as a KPD.

However I'm a lot less confident in our KPF depth of which IMO we have next to none, and it's an area we need to prioritise in the next draft or trade period.
 

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THE THIN MAN

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Jan 7, 2010
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Completely agree with this first part regarding Balta as a KPD.

However I'm a lot less confident in our KPF depth of which IMO we have next to none, and it's an area we need to prioritise in the next draft or trade period.
The silver lining of Chol and CCJ leaving is that we have to address this issue rather than persisting with them hoping they transform into a semblance of an AFL player.
 

Moppey

Team Captain
Oct 24, 2020
424
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RCD seems to be getting into many predicted best 22. But will be interesting once we get to r1 with...
Ross, Caddy, Ralphsmith & Dow all putting their hand up.
RCD gets picked because people are recognising an area of weakness. For most tiger supporters it about clearances a bit of contested ball and for once a bigger bodied player.They are all areas we need to be better at and the bonus is we are playing a young bloke rather then totally relying on a vet.
 

Maurice Mitchell

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Guys like Post Griffiths Elton Gourdis Moore & Chol were all tried in both positions to try and find the right role for them and it always saw them revert back to their original position.
Yeah, VFL.

All these guys we’re talking about actually have talent

I’m not going to get into an argument about where Balta plays, I want him where he’s needed, but I watched the second half of the ‘20 GF the other day and Balta was all over the park.

That’s after we lost Vlastuin, Bachat was on one leg and Broad was sore.

In the end, our defence will always hold up if the mids are doing their job
 

Moppey

Team Captain
Oct 24, 2020
424
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Gotta think that their defence would struggle against JR, Lynch, Nank/Soldo, Dusty, Shai and gang. We have a lot of weaponry on paper. It takes time to integrate so many new players in a defensive structure. I think we can beat them badly in the air if the delivery is good. They will have Saad and Williams trying to run it out if it hits the deck. Our small forward set up will be critical. Will be interesting to see who we will go with.
Why do you say that they have one of the best young anchors in the league in Weitering this bloke is how old again. He is just coming into his own.
Young has shown enough, and is the sort of pick up that has regularly worked for teams. He is no different to many in the league. Marchbank has been CRUELLED by injury but fmd they keep him. For what its worth i like him as well. He just needs a good run at it, Does Dylan Grimes ring a bell injury wise.

The big thing for Carlton ATM has been getting the ones who have shown enough to enough games. The y aren't that far away and it pains me to say it.
 

DoItForCaptBlood

Premiership Player
Sep 8, 2008
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Gold Coast
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RCD gets picked because people are recognising an area of weakness. For most tiger supporters it about clearances a bit of contested ball and for once a bigger bodied player.They are all areas we need to be better at and the bonus is we are playing a young bloke rather then totally relying on a vet.
And Ross also plays that role. Just saying..
 

wegetpumped

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Apr 12, 2015
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Mate if I see any teamsheet this year that has Pickett, Caddy, Aarts, Castagna, Parker all running around in the same team we've either been smashed by injury or our youth sucks and we should have dire concerns for the future.
Don't know why Pickett has been on the butcher's block by many as he was one of our true triers last season. Thought he was sound all season no-fault the rest made him look second rate. I predict he'll have another really good season as for the rest well wait and see. I for once will wait till we start to see how we'll go as all this talk well bounce back bla bl bla is just talking. My new year's wish was to see 3 of the new faces light up a spark in the team. Speaking of talking Herald Sun flogs article wrote how we will bounce back bla bla bla and looked at his prediction tips Carlton to beat us lol
 

_RT_

2017 2019 2020
Sep 17, 2006
40,428
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Southern Stand Punt Road End
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Yeah, VFL.

All these guys we’re talking about actually have talent

I’m not going to get into an argument about where Balta plays, I want him where he’s needed, but I watched the second half of the ‘20 GF the other day and Balta was all over the park.

That’s after we lost Vlastuin, Bachat was on one leg and Broad was sore.

In the end, our defence will always hold up if the mids are doing their job
They were also tried in those positions at senior level as well and sorry to say but those guys also had talent as you don't make an AFL list if you're a no talent hack.

The point I'm making regards Balta is that we're better off settling him in a position, preferably a KPD, rather than flipping him around from back to forward to ruck and messing with his development. Sure every now and then if we need to throw him forward then do so, but for mine we've got this period now while Tarrant is also here to settle Noah in a position so that he is ready to become the general of the back line when Tarrant and Grimes have moved on.
 

Grrr

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 16, 2009
8,336
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mildura
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They were also tried in those positions at senior level as well and sorry to say but those guys also had talent as you don't make an AFL list if you're a no talent hack.

The point I'm making regards Balta is that we're better off settling him in a position, preferably a KPD, rather than flipping him around from back to forward to ruck and messing with his development. Sure every now and then if we need to throw him forward then do so, but for mine we've got this period now while Tarrant is also here to settle Noah in a position so that he is ready to become the general of the back line when Tarrant and Grimes have moved on.
But CHF is a more important position, and if he is good enough he could be a gun. It will not hurt him to be given a run there at all. He's 22 and a competitive beast, has all the hallmarks of a great player wherever you play him.
 

_RT_

2017 2019 2020
Sep 17, 2006
40,428
67,210
Southern Stand Punt Road End
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Richmond
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Furies Premiers 2010
But CHF is a more important position, and if he is good enough he could be a gun. It will not hurt him to be given a run there at all. He's 22 and a competitive beast, has all the hallmarks of a great player wherever you play him.
And we have Jack and Tom to play there in 2022. Settle Balta as a KPD and worry about KPF at the trade/draft table
 

_RT_

2017 2019 2020
Sep 17, 2006
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Southern Stand Punt Road End
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what about 2023???
As I said worry about a KPF at seasons end where we either trade for one and/or draft a couple of youngsters. For mine settling Balta down back is the big key for us. Our recent success has been built around a solid defensive unit and now we're starting to see that unit come to it's end, with Astbury and Houli moving on and Grimes & Tarrant probably 2-3 years off the end as well. We need to have at least 1 KPD set in stone by time they're gone and that is Balta, with one of Miller Nyoun or Gibcus the other. If we're really wanting to try a defender as a forward then try one of those 3, Miller already spent some time in recent years training with the forwards and also learning some ruck craft as well would be the first one I'd try.
 

Grrr

Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 16, 2009
8,336
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mildura
AFL Club
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And we have Jack and Tom to play there in 2022. Settle Balta as a KPD and worry about KPF at the trade/draft table
I really doubt we can wait another year. A year older than last, they were not the players they were last season.
Jack is on the wane, as a third tall I reckon he can still do some damage, but he is not the player he was physically.
Lynch is due for a good season, but he has kicked 32 and 35 goals in the last two season, so let's hope so. Going in the same this year with all eggs in one basket is asking for trouble.

Besides Harry O'Brien, the goal kickers were all older than 30, Hawkins, Jack, Walker, Franklin, Bruce, King, Daniher (not 30 but going nowhere), Kennedy, Darling. Naughton kicked only 40 goals for the year at 1.9 a game.

There are precious few decent talls in the league, much less ones that go to the trade, certainly there will be nothing of Balta's quality.
Cameron was one of the few decent one's to change over last summer, and he cost an arm and a leg, and frankly isn't that good.

Suns King might be on the table, but every club in the land will chase him if he is, so again an arm an a leg.

Draft by all means, but they won't be ready for a couple of year, well after jack is gone.

If Lynch in particular goes down, we are in real strife.
 

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