Analysis Our weakpoints

[mike123]

Letting easy out the back goals was a weakness last year that cost us games, hopefully it gets fixed.

 

[THATSGOLD]

Letting easy out the back goals was a weakness last year that cost us games, hopefully it gets fixed.

Started round 1 v Hawthorn 2012.
Maxwell playing the goal keeper role is a big loss for goals dribbling across the line. So many are easily stopped with someone manning the line.

 

[Old Spice]

The ruck situation at the centre bounces is still a problem and Grundy is at the centre of it. He's an aggressive player and has patches where he strongly contests in other parts of the ground but he is massively over-rated on consistent levels of output. Like late Jolly he barely gets off the ground.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Actually our biggest weakness is losing games.

Ultimately the win loss situation dictates so much in how the season is viewed

 

[Finnishpie]

Yeah, as I mentioned in another thread, I'd like to see some rotation of Aish, Varcoe and perhaps Phillips, if he's ready, going through the half back line during the NAB.

I wonder if we should sit Pendlebury at half-back in the same way Hodge plays for the Hawks.

 

[jmac70]

I like to think of our weakpoints as strongpoints not fully developed...

 

[Buckley is my hero]

The ruck situation at the centre bounces is still a problem and Grundy is at the centre of it. He's an aggressive player and has patches where he strongly contests in other parts of the ground but he is massively over-rated on consistent levels of output. Like late Jolly he barely gets off the ground.

Actually I don't understand why we're good at the stoppages and terrible at the centre bounces? We practice the centre bounce drills often enough yet we watch opposition sides take the ball away so easily at the centre bounce. Grundy and Witts have to learn to time their jump at the centre bounce to intercede the ball at the right moment. Maybe it just takes time for inexperienced ruckmen to learn to time their jumps.

 

[Bonuspoints]

I'd take McEvoy and Hale right now and laugh....(even though one's a Freo coach)....They both have mature bodies (something we'll still have another two years or so to wait for) and play their roles to perfection. Hawthorn has always valued combative rucks, they don't have to be elite athletes or have Farmer like skills to be successful. I'd say McEvoy is at least on par with Charlie Manson and surprise surprise....they're both premiership ruckmen.

I think the Dawkers go for rucks that can be a threat in the goal square. If you look at McEvoy, Hale and Ceglar they are capable of taking a grab up forward and have bit more forward craft than the typical ruck. They've basically ditched the full forward for a resting ruck that can lead out of the goal square to give their mids a marking target 30m out. Witts and Grundy don't have much forward craft yet so I'd like to see that a focus for the development this year, even if it means a stint in the magoos playing purely out of the goal square.

I still think we lack some speedy wingers that can kick. We definitely don't have a Brad Hill or Isaac Smith to shoot off from the congestion carrying the ball forward. In 2010 we had Thomas and Wellingham, but havn't replaced them yet and I don't see any on our list. Yes Sidey can run all day and is a decent kick, but he's not quick. I see Aish being the same.

For me Reid stays down back as his last few games where he played back really showed how pivotal he is for us as the backline general.

 

[northpie]

Great thread with some consistent themes
For mine our general weak spots include:
1. Lack of genuine outside speed in mids. Treloar helps here as a good line breaker but a Isaac smith it hill brother would help
2. Lack of genuine crumbling small forwards. Happy with the excitement and marking skills of Elliott and Fasolo but neither a true crumbed in style of a Betts or Breust
3. Lack of kicking skills with our best defensive backs. For mine Marley the best here although his kicking is just ok. Reid if he is fit will help here. I don't think we can have Brown Toovs and Frost in the same team although Frost improves?
4. Lack of goal kicking accuracy amongst our forwards. I dont think we can play Jessie and Clokey in same forward line. Too many team killer misses from inside 15m

 

[JollyBallsUp]

Thats what I said Knighmare.....but in six words!

Available personnel is everything.

Add to the line up Aish Howe Treloar Reid Greenwood
And to a lesser extent add Maccaffer Ramsay Broomhead
And add a years experience to a young list

And lose nobody of note except we'll have to wait a bit longer for Scharenburg

I have to agree, we are to a degree a bit of an unknown despite the fact we have seen a number of our young players thrown in the deep end.
The mature players you have mentioned can improve us next season, the only think I am not sure about is who much there inclusion will add to us. Most of the kids that got games last season were able to play at a decent level although it was not ideal to blood Moore and Maynard against the reigning premiers.

 

[Soaring Magpie]

Goal kicking accuracy lets us down time and time again, this must be addressed if we want to improve.

 

[MeisterBot]

Our transition play from back half to forward half is poor. We either get them through strength of numbers swarm running through the middle or a slow build up on the wings.

We also consistently get poor reward for effort. Some of that can be traced to inaccuracy but part of it is also due to the "clump the stoppages" gameplan we have where we make up for ruck defiencies and lack of outside spread by playing playing defenders and forwards up the field.

We've somewhat mitigated potential backline leaks by having a fantastic core defensive unit 1v1 but there's still plenty of "out the back" goals that go through because a turnover in the middle leaves us exposed to the long kick forward or midfield transitions.

Goal accuracy for mine is a weird one. Overall, we were one of the more accurate teams in the competition. However our misses came at the worst times, even in the hands of set shot specialists like Elliott and Fasolo. Partially mental application (White, Cloke) but I can't help but feel that others who missed crucial shots (Pendles, Fasolo, Elliott) did so through fatigue as a result of our hard running game style.

At this point, with us taking more mids and strong marking forwards instead of crumbing specialists (who historically don't have great stamina or defensive pressure, and thus, ability to work with a hard running game style) is intentional. So I hope it works, even though I don't necessarily agree with it.

 

[mike123]

Our transition play from back half to forward half is poor. We either get them through strength of numbers swarm running through the middle or a slow build up on the wings.

We also consistently get poor reward for effort. Some of that can be traced to inaccuracy but part of it is also due to the "clump the stoppages" gameplan we have where we make up for ruck defiencies and lack of outside spread by playing playing defenders and forwards up the field.

We've somewhat mitigated potential backline leaks by having a fantastic core defensive unit 1v1 but there's still plenty of "out the back" goals that go through because a turnover in the middle leaves us exposed to the long kick forward or midfield transitions.

Goal accuracy for mine is a weird one. Overall, we were one of the more accurate teams in the competition. However our misses came at the worst times, even in the hands of set shot specialists like Elliott and Fasolo. Partially mental application (White, Cloke) but I can't help but feel that others who missed crucial shots (Pendles, Fasolo, Elliott) did so through fatigue as a result of our hard running game style.

At this point, with us taking more mids and strong marking forwards instead of crumbing specialists (who historically don't have great stamina or defensive pressure, and thus, ability to work with a hard running game style) is intentional. So I hope it works, even though I don't necessarily agree with it.

This

 

[AmellyPies]

Great thread with some consistent themes
For mine our general weak spots include:
1. Lack of genuine outside speed in mids. Treloar helps here as a good line breaker but a Isaac smith it hill brother would help
2. Lack of genuine crumbling small forwards. Happy with the excitement and marking skills of Elliott and Fasolo but neither a true crumbed in style of a Betts or Breust
3. Lack of kicking skills with our best defensive backs. For mine Marley the best here although his kicking is just ok. Reid if he is fit will help here. I don't think we can have Brown Toovs and Frost in the same team although Frost improves?
4. Lack of goal kicking accuracy amongst our forwards. I dont think we can play Jessie and Clokey in same forward line. Too many team killer misses from inside 15m

Reid is one of the best KPD when fit. He's also one of our best kicks.

 

[lenny&carl]

What do the good teams do that we don't?

 

[Prince_Rhodesia]

What do the good teams do that we don't?

We don't take advantage of set shot kicks at goal. This is the major problem.
Even simple set shots from 35 out, directly in front, we don't convert anywhere near as often as we should.

Some of our players might even drop their heads after one of forwards, more often than not, misses relatively easy set shots at goal.
They've just worked their asses off to get the ball inside our forward 50, and all that work has just resulted in a point, or an opposition boundary kick.


We need to convert shots taken from within 35 meters directly in front at least 8 times out of 10.
If we can't do this, we've either got the wrong people kicking for goal, or our goal kicking coach is not doing his job.

 

[MoreMoore]

With Shaz going down, Maynard developing and Reid staying fit is our only hope with ball use out of D50. Unless we can get a Sidey or Aish type to have a ripper year as a quarterback.

Or Pendlebury?

 

[WatsamattaU]

Our kicking efficiency is obviously the biggest problem and it's the reason why our D50 to score % is low, and why we lost some of those close games.

I'm sure it's just because the young kids struggled a bit under pressure, it should improve over time.

 

[tassiemaniac]

With Shaz going down, Maynard developing and Reid staying fit is our only hope with ball use out of D50. Unless we can get a Sidey or Aish type to have a ripper year as a quarterback.

I'm not sure we really skillful rebounders and much as we need excellent decision makers. I'm a massive fan of the way Birchall goes about creating that drive out of defence for the Hawks - a lot of the time his kicks are barely thirty metres but he gets the ball moving out of the back half and that's what creates time and space up forward. Impossible to improve F50 entries if the front half has been clogged up due to slow ball movement. We need to be smarter with the pill in hand this year.

 

[Collingwoodity]

Collingwood dominates play for a long period of a quarter without scoring a goal. Then all the pressure on the opposition is released, and our momentum lost, when a sneaky goal out the back door is scored "against the run of play".

Unfortunately that was not such an unusual occurrence for it not to be considered a problem.

I seem to recall Walters kicking 4 goals in exactly the same manner in the same game. I also recall that this was the manner in which Melbourne freely scored against us. There are other examples.

I also get the feeling that only Pendlebury or Swan can actually influence a game when it is in the balance. When a game was delicately poised either one of these two stood up or no one did.

 

[MightyPies2010]

I wonder if we should sit Pendlebury at half-back in the same way Hodge plays for the Hawks.

Absolutely we should. I know it was a bit of a junk game, but he absolutely dominated in that role against the Cats last year. I'm keen to see more of it through the NAB challenge at least.

 

[Finnishpie]

Absolutely we should. I know it was a bit of a junk game, but he absolutely dominated in that role against the Cats last year. I'm keen to see more of it through the NAB challenge at least.

Also, he's at the age where it would help to protect him a bit from the inside work - we're going to need him still at his peak next year and the year after.

 

[Taylor]

The issue with the rebound scores isn't so much the kicking from defense as it is the running from the middle.

In his peak Swan was presenting in clear space for an easy kick and mark, retaining possession and moving the ball forward.

It takes elite running to do it all game, our young Langdon was doing it against Melbourne and chopped them up, moving the ball from defense was as smooth as a training drill.

With the reduction in interchanges I expect the mature runners will dominate the last quarters and find space everywhere, especially against the young teams so as long as you have enough Sidebottoms and Swans running around you can blow out last quarter scoring.

 

[Hardas]

It has been a Weakness but can become a Strength will Quickly

That's the dream, but in the retrospect, a 'Hudson' replacement would've been handy.

 

[Hardas]

I wonder if we should sit Pendlebury at half-back in the same way Hodge plays for the Hawks.

At least for parts of games, it might be worth it - particularly if others are better able to carry the load in the middle.