List Mgmt. Our youth/flag window?

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dlanod said:
He was replacing Neale last week, this week's he's placing Lyons too! ;)
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We drafted the "two for the price of one" special deal. Bargain.:)
 
Mighty Lions said:
I would rate T. Berry as a good kick. Tough assessment on young Tunstill. Hope he makes you eat humble pie once he gets used to the pace & pressure of the highest level in the game. Dev's kicking style a little out of whack but he seems to hit more targets than he miss's. Cant argue with the others regarding their kicking skills....very average.
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I hope Tunstill makes me eat humble pie as well. But being “not a good kick” today, doesn’t mean he can’t improve.

I do know the reports on Tunstill (and Wilmot) were that neither came through the elite pathways, and were seen as late developers that had high ceilings, and might be rapid improvers in an elite, full time environment.

I would have to see T.Berry in more reserve games, but I always thought the one thing holding him back was his kicking.


Now it appears that it’s lack of experience that is keeping some of our youth out of the senior team.
 
briztoon said:
I hope Tunstill makes me eat humble pie as well. But being “not a good kick” today, doesn’t mean he can’t improve.

I do know the reports on Tunstill (and Wilmot) were that neither came through the elite pathways, and were seen as late developers that had high ceilings, and might be rapid improvers in an elite, full time environment.

I would have to see T.Berry in more reserve games, but I always thought the one thing holding him back was his kicking.


Now it appears that it’s lack of experience that is keeping some of our youth out of the senior team.
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Even if Tunstill ends up being more of a handballing mid, I wouldn’t mind that because it would be a bit of a point of difference to our other mids.
We always seem to ignore our outside runners and just kick it forward at all costs.
So someone who can dish it out could be quite valuable.
 

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The only thing I see on this thread is I think we will be ok for mids. We either have or should be able to replace most. But I do worry about our talls long term. Outside of Payne and Hipwood (and Andrews if he counts) im not confident we have the talls to compete. Especially as most dont come good until that 22-24 age.

Unless we can pull another Daniher we need to draft something sooner
 
KissKiss said:
The only thing I see on this thread is I think we will be ok for mids. We either have or should be able to replace most. But I do worry about our talls long term. Outside of Payne and Hipwood (and Andrews if he counts) im not confident we have the talls to compete. Especially as most dont come good until that 22-24 age.

Unless we can pull another Daniher we need to draft something sooner
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Draft them too early and if they're good enough, might look to move. Our current fringe players are a good example of this one. Draft them too late and if they're not so good, then we are left with a gap. All we can hope for is keep picking good prospects and hope they sort of elevate themselves to push the incumbents out.
 
Viceregal said:
Does anyone know what the issue is with/around/regarding Dev?
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I want to reply to this here, rather than it getting lost in a game preview thread.

No I don’t know what the issue is regarding Dev.

I suspect that Fagan and the coaching group are looking for a point of difference, a player who will provide a different look come finals. Particularly someone who can make a difference against Melbourne.

Unfortunately I don’t believe we currently have such a player on our list. Yet. I say yet, because Rayner could be that player in two or three years time. So could Cockatoo if he regains his former power and develops his endurance to run out games. Or it could be Lohman in five years time, once he’s developed his game more, and got a few preseasons in to himself.

But Fagan wants that player now, while we have Neale in his prime, and Zorko possibly on his last leg.

My own opinion is that we need to get back to last year’s playing style, and double down with Lyons, Neale, Berry and Robertson playing through the midfield.

We’ve made some positional changes that will hopefully improve and speed up our ball use out of defence and on the wings.

If we can win the midfield battle, and speed up our ball use out of defence, I believe we have the fire power up forward to beat any team.

Having a different look would be great, but I don’t believe those players capable of providing such a difference will be ready this year.
 
Tom14 said:
Yes and it led us to 3 consecutive top 4 finishes. I’d make the Neale trade and Lyons acquisition again every time.

If we had had another year of sucking would we have been able to retain clug, Bailey, Rayner, starce etc? I’m not so sure. It had been a decade since finals and the club needed it.
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I don’t disagree with this.

But people had to realise this came at an opportunity cost, and put a time limit on our window.

Noble continually said we needed to go to three drafts, and accrue as much high end talent as possible.

We didn’t do this. We hit the 2016 and 2017 drafts. Sold our 2018 draft for Neale.

Then made finals which denied us the chance of adding more high end talent, and to make matters worse, we traded out of the first round of the 2019 draft in a deep draft, for a future pick in a weak draft (based on that drafts U16 championships).

Then we traded our two first round picks in the 2020 draft for a single pick in 2021, in another bad trade.

What that has left us with is a genuine talent gap between the Rayner/Bailey/Starcevich in the 2017 draft and last year’s draft of Wilmot and Lohman in 2021.


As has been mentioned in the Melbourne review thread, we have a lack of good to elite kicks out of defence and in the midfield.

This makes it easy for oppositions to focus on defending our better kicks, so it forces the ball to our poorer kicks and then oppositions rebound the turnover.


Wilmot, Lohman, Ashcroft and Fletcher won’t be coming in to compliment a winning team. They’ll be coming in to replace old, retiring players, or replacing less talented players.

And we’ll still have two main issues, lack of young developing KPP’s and no genuine midfield depth.
 
IMO our flag window for this season is only slightly ajar if not closed, as I posted in the Demons review thread our game does not hold up against the top sides, it we want to contend this season we need to get some pace, good ball use(as a whole we are not an elite user of the footy by foot team so hard to fix that issue in season IMO) and gut running into our side. From the 22 that started on Thursday night I would go with the following changes with a long term view to September in mind and possible clashes against the likes of the Demons, Cats, Tigers and Dockers.

Outs- Noah Answerth, Mitch Robinson, Linc McCarthy, James Tunstill, Jarryd Lyons, Tom Berry.

Ins- Zac Bailey, Dayne Zorko, Callum Ah Chee, Jaxon Prior, James Madden, Harry Sharp.

1- IMO Bailey is of more value and better as a small forward who has stints as a mid + Linc has been pretty ordinary the last month or so.
2- Prior, Sharp and Madden provide some pace and gut running, Ah Chee should never have been dropped IMO.
3- Dev who provides far better run to play as a pure inside mid replacing Lyons, Rayner to play more mid time, particularly centre bounces.
4- It is a complete waste of time playing T.Berry as a small forward, let him play in the reserves and work on his midfield craft if he isn't in that role in the seniors.
5- Zorko as a mid/fwd, we desperately miss his pace and defensive pressure in that area of the ground.

Other more out there options could be Lohmann, Michael, B.Coleman... Starce as a mid???
 
M Malice said:
IMO our flag window for this season is only slightly ajar if not closed, as I posted in the Demons review thread our game does not hold up against the top sides, it we want to contend this season we need to get some pace, good ball use(as a whole we are not an elite user of the footy by foot team so hard to fix that issue in season IMO) and gut running into our side. From the 22 that started on Thursday night I would go with the following changes with a long term view to September in mind and possible clashes against the likes of the Demons, Cats, Tigers and Dockers.

Outs- Noah Answerth, Mitch Robinson, Linc McCarthy, James Tunstill, Jarryd Lyons, Tom Berry.

Ins- Zac Bailey, Dayne Zorko, Callum Ah Chee, Jaxon Prior, James Madden, Harry Sharp.

1- IMO Bailey is of more value and better as a small forward who has stints as a mid + Linc has been pretty ordinary the last month or so.
2- Prior, Sharp and Madden provide some pace and gut running, Ah Chee should never have been dropped IMO.
3- Dev who provides far better run to play as a pure inside mid replacing Lyons, Rayner to play more mid time, particularly centre bounces.
4- It is a complete waste of time playing T.Berry as a small forward, let him play in the reserves and work on his midfield craft if he isn't in that role in the seniors.
5- Zorko as a mid/fwd, we desperately miss his pace and defensive pressure in that area of the ground.

Other more out there options could be Lohmann, Michael, B.Coleman... Starce as a mid???
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Zorko is desperately missing his pace as well. 😔
 
One thing is for sure, next years starting line up is going to be a fair bit different to this years. No choice about that. We may have rolled the dice to a certain extent pushing through to a premiership with Lyons, Zorko and even Rich. Our reserves are carrying too many players who wont step up next year unless a catastrophic injury event occurs.
Complacency looks to have set in and that means change for the list and change in the coaching staff. Evolve or die.

As for this year i'm hoping the loss to Melbourne serves as a real shock to the team and the club and we see a real response from the players because that was an awful blow to the pride of supporters and players alike.
 
Jeremiah001 said:
One thing is for sure, next years starting line up is going to be a fair bit different to this years. No choice about that. We may have rolled the dice to a certain extent pushing through to a premiership with Lyons, Zorko and even Rich. Our reserves are carrying too many players who wont step up next year unless a catastrophic injury event occurs.
Complacency looks to have set in and that means change for the list and change in the coaching staff. Evolve or die.

As for this year i'm hoping the loss to Melbourne serves as a real shock to the team and the club and we see a real response from the players because that was an awful blow to the pride of supporters and players alike.
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The bolded flashed through my mind as well, terrible sign if true.. the best sides have a ruthless streak.
 

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If we want to be ruthless then thoughts have to turn to trading out as well. Not sure we are psychologically ready for that. Or maybe i watch too much NBA.
 
SizeMatters said:
Window closed. But with aggressive and ambitious off season moves... can see it wide open again.
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Lions do need to move on from Zorko, Rich, Robinson & Lyons in order to take the next step. They have been great players but are now on the slower side of the game and are exposed against the younger teams

The Lions need a mini-reset to get back into the window.
 
lions2010 said:
Lions do need to move on from Zorko, Rich, Robinson & Lyons in order to take the next step. They have been great players but are now on the slower side of the game and are exposed against the younger teams

The Lions need a mini-reset to get back into the window.
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Agree on phasing out some of the old and bringing in the new

We should be fast tracking Wilmot as much as possible for Rich's replacement. Ashcroft in the middle will make a huge difference and Zorko's logical replacement.
 
bungalow_bill said:
Agree on phasing out some of the old and bringing in the new

We should be fast tracking Wilmot as much as possible for Rich's replacement. Ashcroft in the middle will make a huge difference and Zorko's logical replacement.
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I don’t believe Wilmot is a natural replacement for Rich. I do believe he will be an upgrade on Answerth.

I believe Fletcher would be a better long term replacement for Rich.
 
KissKiss said:
Has Fletcher spent much time on the back flank? He's mostly played wing yeah?
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I’m pretty sure he’s played back flank at QAFL level.

But that’s not really here nor there. Rich was a mid, who was moved to half back. So to Bailey. So to Angus Brayshaw at Melbourne.

Moving Fletcher to a back flank gives us speed and a good ball user out of defence.

I do believe we’re looking at a two or three year dip, while we integrate half a dozen kids in to the first team.

I really hope Neale stays, because we’re going to be losing a heap of experience from the team.
 
After Robinson, Rich, Zorko, Lyons and Neale, who are our leaders, our energisers, in the next age bracket?

Who is going to drag the team off the canvas to go again?

We’ve got some experienced role players. We’ve got a couple of potential stars in the forward half.

We’ve got a massive gap in experience and leadership between Neale and who? Rayner maybe.
 
Yes leadership is about to become a serious issue with injuries and age catching up with our senior core. They are dropping off faster than we expected. Hopefully the club recognized this. Wouldnt be putting Andrews under the pressure of captaincy yet and like you mentioned that age and experience gap could throw up interesting options. Clugga?
 
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