Autopsy Out of our misery

[Anja_Nees]

Melbourne didn’t play finals in both ‘19 and were still struggling in ‘20 because they made it to the 2nd week of finals in ‘18?

Tigs dropped out in ‘16 because they played one week of finals in ‘15? How do you explain the 3 flags and a prelim from 17-20 then?

Weird examples, but you might be happy with one good year followed by one bad year, I’d suggest you’d be in the minority

Ok your post makes no sense but I’ll do my best.

I’d be happy with Richmond’s dynasty, and Melbourne came back from two average seasons to win a flag.

Geelong on the other hand, a model of consistency often challenging have made a grand total of one losing grand final since their last flag. Sydney are now a decade without a flag. Both have dropped out of finals. Both are back in contention.

Most teams that win flags have a few disappointments, often including dropping out of the 8, on the way. So you don’t throw the baby out with the bath water off the back of one season.

 

[GetDimmaBack]

After watching a few moments of the game again, two things from me:

Stop messing about with Dunkley. Pay him the big money and give him 5 years.
The bloke shows passion, determination and ticker every week. He's a genuine leader.

Gameplan? The game itself was like watching under 12s who've been told to ''go out and do your best'', with no further instruction. Infuriating.
I've never been a Ross Lyon fan, but I'd love for him to come in as an assistant to teach the side to defend - right across the ground. Would rather watch a 6 goals to 5 arm wrestle than the garbage dished up this week.


Don't know if I'm making much sense ATM. Still pretty angry. Not just with the game, but with the Herb Henderson oversight, too.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Ok your post makes no sense but I’ll do my best.

I’d be happy with Richmond’s dynasty, and Melbourne came back from two average seasons to win a flag.

Geelong on the other hand, a model of consistency often challenging have made a grand total of one losing grand final since their last flag. Sydney are now a decade without a flag. Both have dropped out of finals. Both are back in contention.

Most teams that win flags have a few disappointments, often including dropping out of the 8, on the way. So you don’t throw the baby out with the bath water off the back of one season.

Can't remember Geelong missing finals too often.

Really good sides don't bomb out.

 

[Dog 36]

I was, D36. I only ever comment on games I attend. Your assessment of Naughton aside, I agree with you. Bruce isn't fit enough but he's an old campaigner. He produced a competent game in half a game of footy where he should be, monster forward. Naughton's game is contested mark rather than on the lead. Put the ball out in front of him, giving him a run at it and he's at his best. His work rate was up to his usual standard, presenting at half back on occasions. He's on 47 goals (?) with 2 games to go, a 50 goal haul before finals, in this day and age, that's more than satisfactory.

I hear you reg Naughton and don’t necessarily disagree. There were times yesterday he had opportunity to lead into space and preferred the ball delivered via long bomb where he was competing in a pack but that maybe instructions from the coaches.

He is a great mark when he gets a run at it and I think the side kicks it on top of his head too much rather than out in front where he can jump at it.

Between Naughton Bruce and JUG I think we need to deliver the ball better to them and to their strengths.

 

[Anja_Nees]

Can't remember Geelong missing finals too often.

Really good sides don't bomb out.

They’ve had multiple straight sets exits and no flag since 2011 though. Their supporters have been apoplectic about it at times.

Sydney have done well to stay up as well, but they dropped out of finals 2018-19 and have won a grand total of one elimination final since 2016.

Hawks, for all their success, dipped in 2008-9 and now haven’t won a final in seven years.

Even the best clubs have lulls, for a variety of reasons.

 

[Claudonious]

I hear you reg Naughton and don’t necessarily disagree. There were times yesterday he had opportunity to lead into space and preferred the ball delivered via long bomb where he was competing in a pack but that maybe instructions from the coaches.

He is a great mark when he gets a run at it and I think the side kicks it on top of his head too much rather than out in front where he can jump at it.

Between Naughton Bruce and JUG I think we need to deliver the ball better to them and to their strengths.

Naughts dropped 2 sodas yesterday and ran back towards goal instead of leading to the kicker at least once.

Did ok - but when 2 easy marks are dropped and the opposition kick 5 straight from 50 plus, you are in trouble. Throw in a few gettable goals missed , and there’s the game.

I was there - they were flat from the start, hard to fathom why.

We were smashed with injury in the first half of the year - it’s a hard mountain to climb when you come from behind.

I want a full pre season, a full review of strength and conditioning,and throw out the defending space free ride on the mark garbage.

Hansen leaving at the last minute screwed us - they have to have
a few assistants locked in or in the frame right now - no more stuffing around with apprentice coaching staff.


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[_Mike_]

What lead to Hunter's issues in his personal life? Not sure that's something we need to speculate on. And we certainly shouldn't be implying that Luke Beveridge somehow caused it all.

I'm all for criticising Bevo and even sacking him, but let's not lose our heads.

Nah, that's not what I was getting at. Looks like the point may have been missed so forget it

 

[_Mike_]

Only really 2021 that he didn't get a look in I think? Not sure about 2019 but IMO he was getting a decent go this year considering his injury problems.

he played 6 games last year, but upon recovery he couldnt find a spot in the team for most of it after he recovered from his foot injury.

he played 18 in 2020, was more prominent, 10 games the year before

 

[D Mitchell]

I hear you reg Naughton and don’t necessarily disagree. There were times yesterday he had opportunity to lead into space and preferred the ball delivered via long bomb where he was competing in a pack but that maybe instructions from the coaches.

He is a great mark when he gets a run at it and I think the side kicks it on top of his head too much rather than out in front where he can jump at it.

Between Naughton Bruce and JUG I think we need to deliver the ball better to them and to their strengths.

Accept that. Properly organised, the forward line should be brilliant, the monster forward, the kamikaze high flyer and the fast lead with live wires to create even more options.

 

[D Mitchell]

Nah, that's not what I was getting at. Looks like the point may have been missed so forget it

Barrett's and Wilson's faults

 

[Shacf501]

Accept that. Properly organised, the forward line should be brilliant, the monster forward, the kamikaze high flyer and the fast lead with live wires to create even more options.

Its our mids and centre line. They do not work hard enough without the ball... simple as that!

 

[dogwatch]

Can't remember Geelong missing finals too often.

Really good sides don't bomb out.

Geelong get a pretty good leg up every year so not a good example.

Anyone else? Swans maybe. No others I can think of have consistently made finals over the last 15 years.

 

[ScragCity]

Its our mids and centre line. They do not work hard enough without the ball... simple as that!

They just don't want it as much as the other blokes! It's as simple as that! (Said in the voice of Jonathan Brown)

 

[Next Waiting]

They just don't want it as much as the other blokes! It's as simple as that! (Said in the voice of Jonathan Brown)

You just can't play like that and expect to make an impact in September (Said in the whiney carping voice of Garry Lyon)

 

[Substance]

When the coals are raked over, our physical prep, rehab and resilience has to be part of the serious convo.

Way too many blokes playing injured this year.

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100% this. We've clearly got a chunk of our 22 playing injured. We haven't had 1 good year on this front during bevo's tenure. Needs to be looked at this off season.

 

[BIG_BONTS]

Accept that. Properly organised, the forward line should be brilliant, the monster forward, the kamikaze high flyer and the fast lead with live wires to create even more options.

Agree our forward line has the potential to be brilliant for the first time in ….. years but individually none of the players are elite consistently yet. Even Naughton and Cody who have had a solid year you’d say are performing at a B grade level with flashes of brilliance. Hopefully next year it can come together. There is plenty of growth left in this team and to win a flag we need AA quality on all three lines

 

[Chalky White]

It is not his strength, I agree. I was more taking exception to the allegation that he won’t go down as a ‘great’ because of this one flaw.

I've gone through similar type players. The only player who is a good mid that is comparable is Sam Mitchell. Sam played closer to defensive goal though.
Tom Mitchell, Selwood,, Shuey, Neale, Oliver all have better scoring ratios.
Its a glaring deficiency, but he's a good player. Not great.

 

[Draft Pick]

They’ve had multiple straight sets exits and no flag since 2011 though. Their supporters have been apoplectic about it at times.

Sydney have done well to stay up as well, but they dropped out of finals 2018-19 and have won a grand total of one elimination final since 2016.

Hawks, for all their success, dipped in 2008-9 and now haven’t won a final in seven years.

Even the best clubs have lulls, for a variety of reasons.

I am glad this has been brought up.
While we shouldn’t be extending Bevo’s contract or anything like that, some Sydney and Geelong supporters have been merciless in their criticism of Scott and Longmire over the last 4-5 years, yet look at them now.

Yes there are some alarming red flags with the Dogs at the moment and Bevo needs help/new ideas but the talk of moving him on are 12 months premature.

Working under pressure next year could yield good results.

 

[Dogs_r_barking]

I am glad this has been brought up.
While we shouldn’t be extending Bevo’s contract or anything like that, some Sydney and Geelong supporters have been merciless in their criticism of Scott and Longmire over the last 4-5 years, yet look at them now.

Yes there are some alarming red flags with the Dogs at the moment and Bevo needs help/new ideas but the talk of moving him on are 12 months premature.

Working under pressure next year could yield good results.

I would say losing a grand final the year before, would be considerable pressure to work under.

 

[Anja_Nees]

100% this. We've clearly got a chunk of our 22 playing injured. We haven't had 1 good year on this front during bevo's tenure. Needs to be looked at this off season.

It’s a tough one in that some injuries can’t be avoided and you’re faced with either losing a player or having them underdone, but other clubs seem to have a much better run.

Supporters learn very little. Understand a few of our guys were running on fumes late last year but we only hear a fraction of what happens at any given time. We know Bont’s been labouring this year and probably Macrae, but who knows who has what, and what was avoidable.

Put in perspective, I saw Jake King speak once and he said he’d been playing with 5 different injuries at once (including a shoulder, break in the leg and toe which later had to be fused). I think the toe became public but not the rest.

 

[Dogs Rule]

100% this. We've clearly got a chunk of our 22 playing injured. We haven't had 1 good year on this front during bevo's tenure. Needs to be looked at this off season.

Year after year it happens. Our injury list is always a mess.

 

[Anja_Nees]

Year after year it happens. Our injury list is always a mess.

One telling detail this year is that we’ve often been outrun.

Some assume this is a lack of effort, and maybe some of it is, or it’s mental scars from GF/burnout etc.

If I were betting on it I’d say condition of the players is a big factor.

 

[charcoalchicken]

Complete waste of a season. Emergence of JUH in the second half and the improvement of Richards are just about the only positives.

Tim English as well

A lot of players have had a down season though

 

[NBates]

After watching a few moments of the game again, two things from me:

Stop messing about with Dunkley. Pay him the big money and give him 5 years.
The bloke shows passion, determination and ticker every week. He's a genuine leader.

Gameplan? The game itself was like watching under 12s who've been told to ''go out and do your best'', with no further instruction. Infuriating.
I've never been a Ross Lyon fan, but I'd love for him to come in as an assistant to teach the side to defend - right across the ground. Would rather watch a 6 goals to 5 arm wrestle than the garbage dished up this week.


Don't know if I'm making much sense ATM. Still pretty angry. Not just with the game, but with the Herb Henderson oversight, too.

Gosh. I didn't realise that (Herb). That's appalling. I hope they wore black armbands at least.

 

[footscray1973]

Gosh. I didn't realise that (Herb). That's appalling. I hope they wore black armbands at least.

See the Vale Herb Henderson thread. There was no acknowledgement of his passing at all. And they had six days to do something. Must be a shortage of black tape down at VUWO. I wonder who the pillock is that missed that one.