Out of the traditional 'Big 4', who is closest to their next premiership and why?

[sprockets]

The 'big 4' is a rivalry similar to the ones between Port and Adelaide and Freo and WCE. It's legitimate. Call it what you like but it's there and always has been.

In answer to the question, Collingwood.

 

[darthbards]

Would probably help these poor performing clubs if they got over themselves and woke up to the fact it is not the VFL anymore. Collingwood can be excluded as their AFL history is ok. Carlton are probably the most delusional and impatient so I'd give them no hope. Will be interesting if they even attempt to really use the draft to improve or whether they continue with the rejects from other clubs policy. Honeymoon period over next year so we might get a bit of perspective whether Bolton can coach or not too

 

[nineteen eighty]

Toss up between Collingwood Carlton and Essendon, all at pretty similar positions seemingly.

Richmond are an absolute rabble.

Yes but we are the best of the rabble teams.

* me what a year...three decades of shitfulness.

 

[nineteen eighty]

This has been done before but might be timely as all four clubs have gone backwards since the previous poll was taken.

I'm tipping Essendon, today we showed why, just look at the kids, we didn't even have them all in, let alone the senior guys returning next season.

Not convinced that your suspended players will have a huge upside impact next year but geez the club has some tremendous kids coming through. Getting another top pick this year will only add to what is a very good young list.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

I think Carlton as I think they have the best coach, might be a few years but they will recruit the right players and put together a good side.

 

[PieLebo87]

I think Carlton as I think they have the best coach, might be a few years but they will recruit the right players and put together a good side.

That's an interesting perspective. I have them as the worst of the bunch. There just isn't anything there at the moment (other than Cripps) compared to the other 3.

 

[Bomberblitzer]

I think Carlton as I think they have the best coach, might be a few years but they will recruit the right players and put together a good side.

Bolton was outcoached badly yesterday.

 

[RudyBlue]

Bolton was outcoached badly yesterday.

A bit of that and our boys not turning up mentally probably didn't help. Whilst I don't see him as a messiah as some might, I've been rapt with his performance this year, especially our competitiveness against premiership fancies with a limited group of footballers.

He's probably been outcoached on other occasions too but I think he's definitely got us on the right track.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

 

[Jobe Watson]

Don't know who's closest but Richmond are definitely last.

Had their shot with a team full of in-form All-Australians (Cotchin, Deledio, Riewoldt, Rance, Dusty), and all they could muster was losing 3 straight Elimination finals. Their youth, for the most part, is awful. They need a full clean out, both on-field and off-field, starting with their coach and recruiting department... so many gunk top draft picks like Conca, Vickery and B.Ellis that are taking them no where.

It'll be a while before they're any good again.

 

[Bombermania]

Not convinced that your suspended players will have a huge upside impact next year but geez the club has some tremendous kids coming through. Getting another top pick this year will only add to what is a very good young list.

I think the results will be mixed, a bit like this year's top ups, if Crowley has taught us anything, it is very difficult to come back after a period out of the game and be able to make an impact. some of the 9 or 10 have played very little footy over the last few seasons, Myers is one example of this, therefore I wouldn't be calling Essendon certainties for the 2017 finals.

 

[RudyBlue]

I don't understand how people can say Carlton have started a rebuild. They've brought in more recycled battlers than Richmond ever did and they've got plenty of old mediocrity in their side.

Wright, Kerridge, Armfield, Casbault, Jones, Sumner, Phillips, Rowe, White, Thomas, Lamb, Everitt. Plus Simpson is pretty old.

They just got beaten comfortably by Essendon and lost 10 of their last 11. They're in very bad shape and haven't really gone the youth path yet.


I think people are overestimating the effect the banned Bombers players will have too. Remember they were a bottom 4 team before the suspensions.

I'd say:

1. Collingwood
2. Richmond
3. Carlton
4. Essendon

Although ranking them is pointless because the majority of all 4 lists will need to be turned over, so it entirely depends on who does it best.

Yes our list is diabolical.

Getting 4 picks in the top 20 last year is definitely the start of a rebuild though. The GWS 4 (all under 25) trade of last year for essentially pick 28, was used to fill a demographic hole on our list due to insanely poor drafting in the 2008-2014 period. If Plowman and one of the others are still in the best 22 by 2020, the trade will have been a success.

A lot of deadwood will be moved on in the next 2-3 off-seasons and more kids will be drafted in. The messaging of the club is clear and unambiguous- we will be hitting the draft hard and building depth in all areas of our list in the coming years.

 

[randyzany]

If Collingwood beat the hawks today I think Bucks has done well to hang on and survive from being sacked because the list he has built has the potential to pay dividends next year. I've being surprised at how much the pies have under performed because IMO they definitely have some good young players in their list and I expected them to be doing much better than they have.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

That's an interesting perspective. I have them as the worst of the bunch. There just isn't anything there at the moment (other than Cripps) compared to the other 3.

Just an opinion, couldn't really care less to be honest.

 

[eth-dog]

Taylor Adams can't kick? His disposal efficiency is 71.5%. Lets compare it to other players:

Zach Merrett: 72.2%
Sam Mitchell: 74%
Luke Parker: 67.5%
Dangerfield: 69%
Jack Viney: 66.7%

These players are regarded as some of the better midfielders in the game... And Adams has a similar, if not better disposal efficiency than them... So you're saying they all can't kick either?

Reid has played almost every game this year as well.

Note that we've been molested by injuries as well this year. Swan played about 5 minutes of game time, Elliott hasn't played, Langdon has only played a handful of games, Ramsay did his ACL as well as Scharenberg. Broomhead has barely played as well. Besides Swan ovbiously now, those 5 players are all best 22 and have barely played all year.

Disposal efficiency is a farce, a 40 metre kick to a contest that isn't an intercept mark is counted as an efficient disposal. Champion data think that and pressure acts are the two worst stats they've put in. Taylor Adams is a poor kick, most football supporters would agree with that assessment.

Reid has struggled to get on the park the past 3 years. He's a gun, no doubt, but will he be around for your next flag? No.

I'll give you Swan, Elliott and Langdon but Ramsay has played 9 games of football at AFL level. Scharenberg is the new Scott Gumbleton, he's highly rated but can't get on the park. Who says he'll be any good when he does? Broomhead has never had a consistent run in the seniors, how do we know he's best 22?

 

[Cudi_420]

Melbourne.

 

[PieLebo87]

Disposal efficiency is a farce, a 40 metre kick to a contest that isn't an intercept mark is counted as an efficient disposal. Champion data think that and pressure acts are the two worst stats they've put in. Taylor Adams is a poor kick, most football supporters would agree with that assessment.

Reid has struggled to get on the park the past 3 years. He's a gun, no doubt, but will he be around for your next flag? No.

I'll give you Swan, Elliott and Langdon but Ramsay has played 9 games of football at AFL level. Scharenberg is the new Scott Gumbleton, he's highly rated but can't get on the park. Who says he'll be any good when he does? Broomhead has never had a consistent run in the seniors, how do we know he's best 22?

Taylor Adams is not a poor kick, he is average. Why do people on BF like to exaggerate things so much?

Reid just turned 27, how old did you think he was?

Shaz averaged 15 possessions and 5 marks in his first 4 games of AFL footy, which isn't too bad. Especially as he was touted as one of the best kids they'd seen prior to going to Collingwood.

You're clutching at straws trying to undersell Collingwood and you're doing a poor job at it.

 

[MarkT2]

They are all a few good drafts off the question being relevant. Collingwood have the better list and probably a better building base for a flag tilt but none of them have anywhere near a flag list at present.

It's an irrelevant question because the answer depends entirely on future list management.

 

[MarkT2]

All minimum a decade off their next one...

No one is a minimum decade off a flag. It just does not take that long if you get list management right. Good drafting and free agency can see an ordinary side with a few good young players challenge strongly in 3 years.

 

[eth-dog]

Taylor Adams is not a poor kick, he is average. Why do people on BF like to exaggerate things so much?

Reid just turned 27, how old did you think he was?

Shaz averaged 15 possessions and 5 marks in his first 4 games of AFL footy, which isn't too bad. Especially as he was touted as one of the best kids they'd seen prior to going to Collingwood.

You're clutching at straws trying to undersell Collingwood and you're doing a poor job at it.

He is a poor kick. It's not exaggeration, that's what he is. I know many Collingwood supporters who agree with that assessment. Hell, most football fans would agree with that.

I know he's 27. I doubt he's going to last much after 30 and I really can't see your list being capable of challenging in the next couple of years.

Scott Gumbleton averaged 5 marks a game in a rabble side in his first 5 games of AFL. Gumbleton was also extremely highly rated as a junior. There's absolutely no guarantee that Scharenberg makes it.

I'm not the one clutching at straws. I have my opinions, you have yours, time will tell who's right. I'm very confident that mine will be.

 

[justlookingaround]

None of them will ever win a premiership again.

 

[PieLebo87]

He is a poor kick. It's not exaggeration, that's what he is. I know many Collingwood supporters who agree with that assessment. Hell, most football fans would agree with that.

I know he's 27. I doubt he's going to last much after 30 and I really can't see your list being capable of challenging in the next couple of years.

Scott Gumbleton averaged 5 marks a game in a rabble side in his first 5 games of AFL. Gumbleton was also extremely highly rated as a junior. There's absolutely no guarantee that Scharenberg makes it.

I'm not the one clutching at straws. I have my opinions, you have yours, time will tell who's right. I'm very confident that mine will be.

He's really not. That's been backed up wth facts just above but you, along with 'most football fans', seem to ignore that. He's actually a gun young player who will be integral to our midfield as an inside mid where his disposal won't be as crucial as his clearance and grunt work.

Why won't be play past 30 in your view? He hardly missed a beat this season and was amongst the best CHBs in the game. Roo took 21 marks and kicked 9 goals today. He's 34 in a few months.

Your opinion is silly in my view and I think you're wrong. We'll see how accurate you are in due course.

 

[SuperSub17]

He is a poor kick. It's not exaggeration, that's what he is. I know many Collingwood supporters who agree with that assessment. Hell, most football fans would agree with that.

It's not 2014 anymore. If you had watched any of Collingwood this year you would know it's an area he has shown quite a lot of improvement in.

Not having him for quite a chunk of this year has been a big blow for us.

 

[eth-dog]

It's not 2014 anymore. If you had watched any of Collingwood this year you would know it's an area he has shown quite a lot of improvement in.

Not having him for quite a chunk of this year has been a big blow for us.

My mother is a Collingwood fan and as such I've watched a lot of Collingwood all my life. So don't pull the "if you've watched much of Collingwood" crap, it'll just make you look the bigger fool. Taylor Adams has improved, from horrendous to poor. Don't pretend otherwise, because that's the way it is.

 

[brad cooper]

Rather than using the obsolete title of "Traditional Big 4" could we just change the title as to who will win the next flag out of Carlton Essendon Collingwood and Richmond.

England were once the most powerful country in the world, they're pretty much irrelevant now.

 

[SgtSchulz]

Current Big 4.

1. Hawthorn
2. Sydney
3. West Coast
4. Geelong