outcoached and outplayed

[pastie37]

well that was very disappointing, i thought we were switched on tonight early but fell away badly.

kingy has to be dropped, shagga could go with him and i think harding and teague could do with a game in the mk's too.

harding will still be very good but it is a crucial time for his development, better thast he goes back and plays well in the 2's than br running around making mistakes in the seniors. his time will come.

given that our 2 best players both played well and we still copped a thumping doesnt bode well. if only we could clone someone with arch;s courage and commitment with harv's spped and skill........then multiply by 22 and we'll be right!

i thought we exposed collingwood early to be very soft but we just didnt have the skill to make the most of it.

 

[pastie37]

i forgot to add how badly i thought we were outcoached on collingwood's kick ins, they made it look ridiculously easy whenever we kicked a point.

 

[NeoBlaze]

we were absolute ****t pickett, grant, harding all need to be dropped....teague was good i dunno what were thinking, we were coached sooooooo badly it was depressing...we made so many changes it got rid of any form our players were getting in the midfield 20+ changes to 9 says it all....morrell was very quiet, sav was out played all night, but i'll put it into a few points:

harvey: is our only player in the midfield according to the gameplan he's the only one with a foot, our midfield was doing alright when everything DIDn't go through harvey in our previous matches why the hell did we go back to our ****t gameplan of give it harvey (so when he gets tagged we get no drive)

grant: needs to be dropped, hasn't looked like turning it on all year i have no idea why he's still there
king: was promising in the first half then fell away like the team in the second
harding: is too bold, he wants to take everyone all and doesn't do any of the team things, wants to be a star, and he can be a star in the ressies if he doesn't just blast away
pickett: cannot play full-time in the forward line, we're playing with one player down for 3 quarters then having a small contribution in the quarter he turns it on. he needs to be moved to the midfield as a tagger or back to the backline he just doesn't know how to play full-time as a forward.
baird: is not a forward. period.
mccartney: is not a forward. period.
burton: was very down tonight
simmo: was very quiet, but against buckley that's alrite
stevo: was very quiet
colbert,petrie,teague,micky,makepeace,harvey,rawlings,robbins,archer all very good tonight, everyone else needs to have a good hard look at themselves, and that includes the coach

 

[Moti.com]

Harding has no defensive side to his game. He was woeful!
Denis didn't even look like trying tonight, same old mistakes. I feel for Dylan who didn't get much of a go. Should have put him on late, at least give him some experiance.

 

[machiavelli]

Originally posted by pastie37

i thought we exposed collingwood early to be very soft but we just didnt have the skill to make the most of it.

I watched the game on TV. North looked very soft in the second half, no heart except for Harvey.

 

[a4brianp]

I agree was out coached couldnt work out when Davis started to tear Makepeace apart in the 3rd quarter a move wasnt made as he was to quick and could have kicked 3 goals in short period.
Also why Petrie wasnt given a shot at centre half forward or even full forward when Rocca was being beaten for mobility.
Also wasnt impressed with Sinclair

 

[choppy]

Originally posted by a4brianp
I agree was out coached couldnt work out when Davis started to tear Makepeace apart in the 3rd quarter a move wasnt made as he was to quick and could have kicked 3 goals in short period.

And who was their to put on him. A backline with Martyn, McCartney, Colbert, Baird is just to damn slow and predictable.

Also why Petrie wasnt given a shot at centre half forward or even full forward when Rocca was being beaten for mobility.
Drew spent the first 15 minutes of the game at full forward and basically didn't hold a couple of marks. Pagan had no choice but to move him and no reason to put him back their later on.[/b]

Also wasnt impressed with Sinclair
Well I wasn't impressed when Stevo didn't lay an obvious shepherd or run to support him


[/B]

 

[goal_umpire]

The roos will be back.

But you were right, they were severely off their game.

 

[dogboy]

Let's look at the big picture here people. The game last week would have taken a lot out of the boys as you could see if you were also watching the Brisbane side go around. Simple fact is that last weeks game was a bloody tough one and every player who played would have felt the effects of it. Last nights game was a 50/50 proposition where we looked good for a half of football. I would have thought that the collingwood side at half might have been thinking what was going wrong as they should have thought of themselves as favourites but to the roos credit they matched them. An extra week off was a big advantage and it showed in the second half.

With so many players down in blue and white, the fact that we travelled to a tough game against the leagues best side and that Collingwood had a week off doing little and resting I think that you are all expecting a little too much.

This is a year that little was expected from the boys and it seems that after a few wins we are all starting to expect success. Let us just support the boys and if finals happen then great. If not then we will be a better side for next year.

 

[Groucho]

Originally posted by dogboy
Let's look at the big picture here people. The game last week would have taken a lot out of the boys as you could see if you were also watching the Brisbane side go around. Simple fact is that last weeks game was a bloody tough one and every player who played would have felt the effects of it. Last nights game was a 50/50 proposition where we looked good for a half of football. I would have thought that the collingwood side at half might have been thinking what was going wrong as they should have thought of themselves as favourites but to the roos credit they matched them. An extra week off was a big advantage and it showed in the second half.

With so many players down in blue and white, the fact that we travelled to a tough game against the leagues best side and that Collingwood had a week off doing little and resting I think that you are all expecting a little too much.

This is a year that little was expected from the boys and it seems that after a few wins we are all starting to expect success. Let us just support the boys and if finals happen then great. If not then we will be a better side for next year.

A lot of what you say is true dogboy and I felt the tough game in Brisbane would tell against a side that had 13 days off (why couldn't they arrange it for sides in each week of the bye to play each other?),but I think it's reasonable to expect consistency from wellpaid,professional leaders at the club but too many went missing or just played badly. This is my beef,if you get beaten but you feel that everyone has contributed then so be it but I just had the feeling that too many had bad ones and that's inexcusable. My expectations for this year have been realistic (well post Carey anyway!) but having had a pretty good first half of the season it was reasonable to think a lower 8 position was almost probable however I can see the season slip away badly ,like last year ,if we don't get a lot more from our key personnel.

 

[Woodson]

CHF downfall!

Originally posted by dogboy
Let's look at the big picture here people.

......This is a year that little was expected from the boys and it seems that after a few wins we are all starting to expect success. Let us just support the boys and if finals happen then great. If not then we will be a better side for next year.

I agree with you dogboy, but Groucho has a valid point about watching 'well paid' ....(more precisely 'overpaid - easy money') professionals...***cough cough*** ( see : part-time specialists)
leaders.....(too many indians and No Chiefs!!!) running around in the real thing.... (I've seen more intensity on the training track)

I don't think it hurts to put in (with desire & no-holds barred efforts) on a weekly basis.......

you'de think that they had run a marathon the day before and were spent. get real....you cross the line, you're expected not to let anyone down including your team mates.

We keep hearing the same words.... inexcusable.... but at the end of the day, we don't have a CHF, and it's showing up BIG TIME Digby needs some Angry Pills....nobody fears him.....and that's what we need....to inject FEAR into the opposition.

 

[Shinboners]

Yep, our footballers are well paid, but whilst I expect them to put in 100% each game, that is not the same as performing at 100% ability each game - if they did, they would be little more than machines.

Collingwood are a very good side. Nevermind the week break, I don't think that had as much to do with the Pies taking control as the fact that they're a team that is in good form and highly confident.

The problem with our side comes down to the forward structure. Since '99, we just haven't had a forward line that looks capable of stringing together 5 or 6 goals in a row to take control of the match - compare our forward structure to the likes of Port, Brisbane, Collingwood, and (when they get back onto the field) Essendon. The Collingwood forward line reminds me of the mid 90s Roos - marking options everywhere, crumbers to pick up anything their talls don't pick up, and flexibility to move players around. However, it's taken the likes of Port, the Pies etc. a few years to develop those forward structures, and similarly, it will take us time to get those options up and running. Also, the Pies have one of the best backlines in the AFL - a bunch of no-names who work brilliantly as a unit.

 

[a4brianp]

Choppy Petrie might have been at full forward for the first 15 minutes but remember it was his first game for the season in the ones and you would expect him to be nervous and therfore drop a mark or two under pressure but that is no reason not to try him again later in the game when he is playing and competing well.Perhaps maybe Rawlings may have been worth a try on Davis or even Pickett who would be as quick .

Sinclair seems to me to be kick chasing when given a run and doesnt seem to take the right options Got in Roccas road in the 3rd qurter and marked but didnt make the distance where as Sav would have drilled it.

 

[DMcD]

I too believe that Denis was outcoached. I cannot understand why he continues to bring Pickett off rather than dropping him back into defence.

We had no run out of the backline whatsoever, and just as bad no plan for the forward line. Where was the plan that we used against Essendon of kicking to the point of the goalsquare.

We did look lethargic, and after last week's game that can be excused to a degree, but we were over run by a more talented side with a heap more go in them. The 'woods have got it and will challenge for the flag I reckon.

 

[roowatch]

Had a poor one all round (only our third such for the year).
Pagan was outcoached, and this happens sometimes, but i wouldn't sack him for this!

Of more concern, a number of us rated Rawlings and Sinclair highly. Phew! A big concern for me.

Sinclair is like a lot (not all, I rememmber Bell and Abraham) Freo players - they leave their brains and ability at the airport check in when heading east.
He has no awareness of what is going on around him on the football field - tem mates or opposition. He would lead the league in the crashing into team mates stat!
His disposal is erratic at best, and I am almost at the stage of saying time to cut our losses and set him free.

I feel sorry for Brady Rawlings. This guy works his butt off, runs hard, chases, etc..........but then he gets the ball. Can't think of too many players who miss targets as regularly as BR. Yes, I know Simmo just throws the ball on his boot, but in his case it is as much tactic as skill.

The huge worry for me from Sat night was that we were able to effectively shut out Rocca, Tarrant, Fraser and Buckley and still got pretty weel flogged.

Oh well, we are in our best position now.....backs to the wall, season on the line, the shinboner spirit ready to rise again.


I'm feeling better already.

 

[Briedis]

To all those posters who want to farkin play the whole Murray Kangas side every farkin week: This was a perfect example of playing too many youngsters. I was dubious about the number of kids we played in this winnable game. Basically I reckon they are just not up to it. I don't mind blooding one or two every week, but 4???

Absolutely Ridiculous.

We could have used the run and space of Clayton, and the close-checking of Cochrane on Saturday night.

Any time ANY of you whinge about the young players not getting a go, just think about this game.....

 

[Z_K]

I know what you are saying Briedis, but it is the ultimate cop out to blame the kids when we lose. Grant, Stevo, Pickett and King were all ****. All big reputations, all experienced. The kids need to be the icing on the cake. Petrie rucked for too long against an inform ruckman, Smith has not played senior footy for 10 months and was thrown on the ball, in a "hot" game.

If we are going to play that many kids, the senior guys need to carry them through it, not leave it up to them to get their knees dirty. When that many senior players are down, and you have included three 20 yo in their first games for the year, you are gonna be spanked. Port would have set records on Sat night.

 

[hotham]

Originally posted by Briedis
To all those posters who want to farkin play the whole Murray Kangas side every farkin week: This was a perfect example of playing too many youngsters. I was dubious about the number of kids we played in this winnable game. Basically I reckon they are just not up to it. I don't mind blooding one or two every week, but 4???


Briedis,

When I seen our bench at the start of the game, I knew we would be in trouble.

hotham

 

[Z_K]

Originally posted by hotham


Briedis,

When I seen our bench at the start of the game, I knew we would be in trouble.

hotham [/B]

Not me.

When I saw Stevo fail to shepard Sinclair, or Grant dodge 3 hard balls, or King run around like a ****wit I thought we were in trouble.

 

[Briedis]

Originally posted by NorthBhoy
I know what you are saying Briedis, but it is the ultimate cop out to blame the kids when we lose. Grant, Stevo, Pickett and King were all ****. All big reputations, all experienced. The kids need to be the icing on the cake. Petrie rucked for too long against an inform ruckman, Smith has not played senior footy for 10 months and was thrown on the ball, in a "hot" game.

If we are going to play that many kids, the senior guys need to carry them through it, not leave it up to them to get their knees dirty. When that many senior players are down, and you have included three 20 yo in their first games for the year, you are gonna be spanked. Port would have set records on Sat night.

Actually, I thought Grant and King were OK without setting the world on fire.

Stevo is struggling, and Pickett just can't get near it.

But to go in with four youngsters means that these blokes have no real back-up. Poor decision by Pagan IMO to play so many youngsters.

Yes, we have to blood kids, but not like that. Winning games is our #1 priority and we need our experienced, senior players to do that....

Why bring Cochrane back for one game after injury and then drop him? Was he injured? He would have been a real asset on Saturday night stopping some of the run in the Pies midfield....

 

[Dingster]

Originally posted by Briedis
Stevo is struggling, and Pickett just can't get near it.

A bit harsh on Stevo. To come back from injury, endure a tough preseason and take on the captaincy...I just think that he's done as much as we could have asked for. Perhaps if a few others followed his example...

 

[NeoBlaze]

Originally posted by Dingster


A bit harsh on Stevo. To come back from injury, endure a tough preseason and take on the captaincy...I just think that he's done as much as we could have asked for. Perhaps if a few others followed his example...

hate to tell you wrong, but stevo didn't have a pre-season he came back in round 1 when he was supposed to come in at earliest round 4

 

[Dingster]

Originally posted by NeoBlaze


hate to tell you wrong, but stevo didn't have a pre-season he came back in round 1 when he was supposed to come in at earliest round 4

Perhaps I should redefine my definition of tough.

 

[Woodson]

Originally posted by roowatch

Of more concern, a number of us rated Rawlings and Sinclair highly. Phew! A big concern for me.

The scarey thought of NEW ppl seeing the 'Greatest game ever v Ess 2001' in years to come and they'll get the impression that 'Sinclair kid' was a champ!....that very day in the sun will immortalise him in 30 years time.

he's been a bust....gotta cut him if he can't be expected to play like he did that day....'on a weekly basis'

I enjoyed reading your comments Roowatch on Jess.... LOL

The huge worry for me from Sat night was that we were able to effectively shut out Rocca, Tarrant, Fraser and Buckley and still got pretty well flogged.

Oh well, we are in our best position now.....backs to the wall, season on the line, the shinboner spirit ready to rise again.


I'm feeling better already.

Too right......it's gonna be another energy sapping experience, something I don't like!