Outlook Rocky: he likes an expensive Tawny

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Fatcat08

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Over the last 7-8 years we have been a side that hasn't made finals, with a large list turnover full of lots of kids and fringe players that has had to pay 95% of the salary cap. It wouldn't be too unfair to say that pretty much every player on our list has been getting paid more than what they would have received at just about every other club in the competition, sometime grossly more when based on their output. Even someone like Rockliff who's output has been at a level above most of our list would still have been getting overpaid by a large chunk when compared to players of similar level at other clubs (like Hawthorn, Geelong, Sydney etc).

So basically Rockliff has been paid well above market rate for a large portion of his time with us. Now that we have a new assessment of worth and contract value that has started putting the breaks on overpaying players, and for the first time in his career Rocky is now looking at a salary decrease, rather than an increase like he has received every other time his contract has come up, suddenly the club is being criticised by some for shafting him or treating him poorly, all the while espousing the virtues of Rocky's "loyalty" over the years.

Some will point to the club being a basket case and poorly run over that time, and he has remained at the club despite that. However that line of thinking ignores the fact that he has been paid at a level that would compensate for that and well above what he could have received elsewhere. Now that the club has resolved a large chunk of those issues (this has come from many of the players including rockliff) and are now reducing the amount they are willing to offer players because they don't have to compensate them for issues that have been resolved, Rockliff is now exploring his options to move elsewhere for increased money (allegedly I will admit). Yet some people count that set of circumstances as being indicative of unquestionable loyalty to the club on Rockliff's behalf? That seems to be in contradiction to what appears to be occurring.

Now the above assumes that he actually is looking for more money or the like, which I don't actually know for sure, but its the way its appearing at the moment which is all I can base it on currently. Personally I don't have anything against Rockliff exploring his options, or leaving to go somewhere else for more money than what he can get with us, because in the same situation I would be extremely hard pressed to leave a a fair few hundred thousand dollars on the table if an offer came to move employers. However this talk about Rockliff being "loyal" over his time with the club would seem to me to be a bit of a fantasy borne out by the fact that we've lost so many players, we're just grateful someone stuck around all the while ignoring the fact we've paid them over the odds to stay.

If Rocky re-signs with us for more money and a smaller term contract then he could have gotten elsewhere, then that will be a show of loyalty and will be recognition that the club has fixed a large share of the issues players have been overpaid to ignore over the years. But as for showing loyalty so far I just don't see how someone reaches that conclusion TBH.
 

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jackess

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Has he really been paid above market rate? He's in our top 3 or 4 best players. Also, surely Melbourne would have offered him decent coin when they were willing to give up pick 2 for him.

Sydney is probably no longer the best comparison with what they're paying Tippett.
 
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There was an article the other day that suggested 700k would be enough to net us pick 2 as compo. Not sure it sounds right but there would be a couple of clubs prepared to pay that you would think. Especially considering that our offer is believed to be around 650/yr over 3 yrs.
Here is the link to the article. Last paragraph.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/af...k=814de697948f1e973f25865f3df1bda6-1505817278

“If they get a first rounder for him — if he gets up towards $700,000 a year the Lions get Pick 2 — I’m pretty sure the Lions would be happy to let Tommy go,” Brown told On the Couch.
I don't think it sounds right either mate if it correct it's a game changer. Only time I have heard the figure anywhere near that low. It also says 15 for Shak......I have my doubts in him but that's a joke.
 

Viceregal

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Not sure that loyalty per se is an issue. He may have been overpaid or he may have been on normal wages (we don't know) but for mine he has paid his dues and is professionally and honourably exercising his privilege as a restricted free agent ... as opposed to the nameless ones who gamed the system to our detriment to get to their preferred clubs after just two or three years.
 

briztoon

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From what I have read Rocky will have amongst the top 25 players in the league for the Lions to receive band 1 compo.

I haven't looked, but there is probably a website out there that lists player salaries.

Find the 25th highest earner, and Rocky has to come in above him.

From a simplistic point of view, Rocky would have to be the highest or second highest paid player on a team.
 

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I haven't looked, but there is probably a website out there that lists player salaries.

Find the 25th highest earner, and Rocky has to come in above him.
There isn't a website. Player salaries aren't made public and are only available either as aggregate totals released by the AFL from time to time, e.g. the number of players earning above $1m, or media speculation at the time of them signing their deal.
 

Panthera

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From what I have read Rocky will have amongst the top 25 players in the league for the Lions to receive band 1 compo.

I haven't looked, but there is probably a website out there that lists player salaries.

Find the 25th highest earner, and Rocky has to come in above him.

From a simplistic point of view, Rocky would have to be the highest or second highest paid player on a team.
If it's the top 5%, top 40 or so :thumbsu:

But if it's close to the mark - surely the other tangibles come into it.
 

Eons

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For Rocky to net us pick 2 he would have to go to another struggling team with cap space. Can't see him leaving to a team like Carlton unless they were offering him ridiculous coin.
 

jackess

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You'd hope if it's borderline the fact he was 3rd in the b and f this year, our vice captain (former captain) and an All Australian would push him into band 1.
 

WA Lion

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You'd hope if it's borderline the fact he was 3rd in the b and f this year, our vice captain (former captain) and an All Australian would push him into band 1.
What is working in our favour is the likes of Kelly and Martin re-signing thankfully. Available list of midfielders is diminishing. Hopefully clubs get desperate enough.

That said, personally I would love for Rocky to stay, but if we get pick 2 I can live with it
 

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JasperBeardly

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This one from October 2015 claims your new contract needs to put you in the top 5% of players aged 25 and over for round 1 compo.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-10-...-to-earn-firstround-free-agency-compensation-

There are around 325 AFL players aged 25 or older, 5% of which would mean you'd need to be in the top 16 earners in that age bracket. The article below from March this year shows that in 2016 14 players were on 800k+ but no statement around what age they were. But, with a further 18 players in the 700-800k bracket, I can't imagine 700k would get anywhere near it.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-03-16/afl-millionaires-club-swells-to-six-players
 

jackess

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I'm a bit unsure. While I can't wait for a season where we win 8-10 games and have a percentage over 90% our midfield has been very poor. DBeams and Rocky kills us with poor defensive running and both struggle with injuries and have little hurt factor with their disposal.

If we could get a Miles or M Kennedy or someone similar I'd be happy with losing Rocky for pick 18. Puts added pressure on Beams, Zorko, Robbo, Bundy and Rich staying fit and contributing through the midfield.
 

WA Lion

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I'm a bit unsure. While I can't wait for a season where we win 8-10 games and have a percentage over 90% our midfield has been very poor. DBeams and Rocky kills us with poor defensive running and both struggle with injuries and have little hurt factor with their disposal.

If we could get a Miles or M Kennedy or someone similar I'd be happy with losing Rocky for pick 18. Puts added pressure on Beams, Zorko, Robbo, Bundy and Rich staying fit and contributing through the midfield.
Yeah very keen on Kennedy too, would be a really good fit for us IMO
 

BigHippy

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I'm a bit unsure. While I can't wait for a season where we win 8-10 games and have a percentage over 90% our midfield has been very poor. DBeams and Rocky kills us with poor defensive running and both struggle with injuries and have little hurt factor with their disposal.

If we could get a Miles or M Kennedy or someone similar I'd be happy with losing Rocky for pick 18. Puts added pressure on Beams, Zorko, Robbo, Bundy and Rich staying fit and contributing through the midfield.
Do you really believe that Beams has little hurt factor with his disposal?
 

briztoon

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If it's the top 5%, top 40 or so :thumbsu:

But if it's close to the mark - surely the other tangibles come into it.
Top 5% of players over the age of 25. JasperBeardly's post covers everything.


This one from October 2015 claims your new contract needs to put you in the top 5% of players aged 25 and over for round 1 compo.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-10-...-to-earn-firstround-free-agency-compensation-

There are around 325 AFL players aged 25 or older, 5% of which would mean you'd need to be in the top 16 earners in that age bracket. The article below from March this year shows that in 2016 14 players were on 800k+ but no statement around what age they were. But, with a further 18 players in the 700-800k bracket, I can't imagine 700k would get anywhere near it.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-03-16/afl-millionaires-club-swells-to-six-players
 
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Over the last 7-8 years we have been a side that hasn't made finals, with a large list turnover full of lots of kids and fringe players that has had to pay 95% of the salary cap. It wouldn't be too unfair to say that pretty much every player on our list has been getting paid more than what they would have received at just about every other club in the competition, sometime grossly more when based on their output. Even someone like Rockliff who's output has been at a level above most of our list would still have been getting overpaid by a large chunk when compared to players of similar level at other clubs (like Hawthorn, Geelong, Sydney etc).

So basically Rockliff has been paid well above market rate for a large portion of his time with us. Now that we have a new assessment of worth and contract value that has started putting the breaks on overpaying players, and for the first time in his career Rocky is now looking at a salary decrease, rather than an increase like he has received every other time his contract has come up, suddenly the club is being criticised by some for shafting him or treating him poorly, all the while espousing the virtues of Rocky's "loyalty" over the years.

Some will point to the club being a basket case and poorly run over that time, and he has remained at the club despite that. However that line of thinking ignores the fact that he has been paid at a level that would compensate for that and well above what he could have received elsewhere. Now that the club has resolved a large chunk of those issues (this has come from many of the players including rockliff) and are now reducing the amount they are willing to offer players because they don't have to compensate them for issues that have been resolved, Rockliff is now exploring his options to move elsewhere for increased money (allegedly I will admit). Yet some people count that set of circumstances as being indicative of unquestionable loyalty to the club on Rockliff's behalf? That seems to be in contradiction to what appears to be occurring.

Now the above assumes that he actually is looking for more money or the like, which I don't actually know for sure, but its the way its appearing at the moment which is all I can base it on currently. Personally I don't have anything against Rockliff exploring his options, or leaving to go somewhere else for more money than what he can get with us, because in the same situation I would be extremely hard pressed to leave a a fair few hundred thousand dollars on the table if an offer came to move employers. However this talk about Rockliff being "loyal" over his time with the club would seem to me to be a bit of a fantasy borne out by the fact that we've lost so many players, we're just grateful someone stuck around all the while ignoring the fact we've paid them over the odds to stay.

If Rocky re-signs with us for more money and a smaller term contract then he could have gotten elsewhere, then that will be a show of loyalty and will be recognition that the club has fixed a large share of the issues players have been overpaid to ignore over the years. But as for showing loyalty so far I just don't see how someone reaches that conclusion TBH.
I agree with a lot of what you have said there Fatcat. I suppose loyalty in football can be hard to measure at times. Certainly can't say that he has not been loyal (not implying you said that) but also hard to say how loyal he has actually been, without knowing of other offers etc. Do u know for a fact that Rocky will be/ has been offered less than what he is currently on by the club mate? Not having a Crack at all, just asking.
 

Lazza16

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Loyalty on bf is a three way thing.......the player....the club...the supporter. Nothing definite said at this time from Rocky or the club but the hypocrisy of the supporter is amazing. Thank God for bf to allow such forums to air. The amount of times I have read on here that I hope he stays or he is just chasing the best dollar (guilty) but to be followed up with ...... but I am happy if he goes if we can get pick x or player y.....LOYALTY of the supporter is fickle.
 
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